The Legion of superheroes is a victim of its own utopian premise.

[mathew101281]

The Legion was created in a time when people were more hopeful about the future. Utopian visions of the future were everywhere, (the Jetsons). We are in a very different place as a society these days. Dystopias are all the rage, and overly positive views of the future seem unrealistic to vast swathes of the population.

[kalai]

I have to disagree,
the main reason for the Legion's loss of popularity is due to the repeated reboots,
and the unclear connections to Superman mythos.

Legion's original popularity was during the time Superman is selling really well,
and the Legion introduced a really interesting world.
After reboots, Superman may have or may have not joined the Legion,
or maybe Jon was the founder of the Legion.
So you would lose many old readers of Legion and new readers just don't see the appeal.

Plus, L.E.G.I.O.N and Geoff Johns's Green Lanterns borrowed many elements from Legion book,
so the elements in the Legion books are just less interesting and less connected to the DCU in comparison.

[Robotman]

The Legion was created in a time when people were more hopeful about the future. Utopian visions of the future were everywhere, (the Jetsons). We are in a very different place as a society these days. Dystopias are all the rage, and overly positive views of the future seem unrealistic to vast swathes of the population.

There have been a lot of Legion stories that show the future as a very grim place. The 90s storyline with The Blight was super dark and pretty depressing. One of the best LoS stories (in my personal opinion) is Superman and the Legion of Superheroes. Johns showed the year 3000 as a place rife with xenophobia and toxic nationalism. It was a good antithesis to the Legion’s message of teamwork and unity of different alien races.

[Jim Kelly]

The dystopian vision of the future has been with us for a very very long time--maybe as long as the utopian vision.

At one time, I hoped that the fad for dystopian futures would wear itself out and the pendulum would swing back to the utopian. But some thirty years on that still hasn't happened. Maybe it's because comic book fantasy is permanently stuck in adolescent arrested development. Not that the readers are adolescent but they're stuck at that phase in their comic book tastes. When we're teens we go through a phase of being skeptical of everything. And some of us never grow out of that. Of course, a lot of teens are also very optimistic--I wish that perspective was shown more.

I guess, because dystopian worlds are so dark, a lot of people mistake that for artistic sophistication. But dystopian stories are easy to do and not all that sophisticated. In reality, it's not that easy to see what is bad or good in a society. A nation where people live in pretty houses with picket fences and colourful gardens might actually be oppressive and soul-sucking. A nation where people have to struggle to survive may yet have a rich culture and strong sense of community.

In my Legion head canon, between the 20th century and the 30th century, the Earth went through many wars and nearly destroyed itself. Throngs left the horrors of their homeworld for the stars, to settle on other worlds and create new civilizations. A lot of Earth's technology and memory was lost. It is only in the last one hundred years--before Imra, Garth and Rokk came to Earth--that our world has pulled itself out of the darkness and rebuilt itself, restoring justice and freedom to its citizens.

The reason the Earth is so hopeful in the late 30th century is because they have managed to overcome that dystopian past. They are motivated to rebuild and reunite. But there are still lots of problems that beset the United Planets and the people from an older generation are not too optimistic. However Imra, Garth and Rokk are young and idealistic.

[j9ac9k]

I don't think the utopian future is itself the turn-off. The stories focus on the team and their adventures anyway, so the fact that they live in a utopian society (which is also debatable, depending on which version of the team you're talking about) doesn't usually factor in. I don't think it's that people don't buy it, it's that it's usually boring.

I think the utopian setting has allowed writers to not spend a lot of time on world-building. With most dystopian futures, there's a fairly clear reason for how things are, or a clear setting/premise - there was a nuclear holocaust and people are struggling to survive, or there's some totalitarian regime, or the environment has gone to crap and mutant cannibals roam the earth, etc... where the setting leads to stories and helps to inform the characters and how they live. With a utopia, there's usually a presumption that things are just fine - there's no war or disease or want and everyone gets along. There isn't as much of a need to explain the world, or create a world that will provide stories for our protagonists. Bendis has been trying to do that - to create a vision of what the 31st century actually is. YMMV in terms of how effective or interesting it is, but at least he and Sook put a lot of thought into it. (although I think they've highlighted the world-building to the detriment of character building, imo)

[Will Evans]

Star Trek is an Utopian future, correct?
And it’s been ongoing for over 50 years.

[j9ac9k]

Star Trek is an Utopian future, correct?
And it’s been ongoing for over 50 years.

When was the last time Star Trek was actually shown as "one big happy Federation?" Maybe the end of "ST:TNG? DS9 was set in a hotzone then was a show about a space war, Voyager was set in the Delta Quadrant, Enterprise was in the past pre-utopia, the Kelvin movies had Federation officers as main bad guys. (I haven't seen the CBS Access shows)

[Sutekh]

Star Trek is an Utopian future, correct?
And it’s been ongoing for over 50 years.

And neither are really a 'utopia' where everyone sits around eating grapes and discussing philosophy and nobody ever experiences anguish or conflict or death.

There are Khunds and Dominators and Mordru and the Fatal Five, the Dark Circle and Darkseid, cruel worlds like Lythyl and Avalon, and less technologically sophisticated ones like Orando and Talokk VIII and even kind of crappy poorly-run exploitive worlds like Rimbor and exploitive *races* like the Gil'Dishpan. People *do* suffer and die. Adventure and tragedy abound. And there's controversy, as different cultures smash into each other and disapprove of how each other do things. (Bad Gil'Dishpan, enslaving and surgically modifying other races so that they make more useful servants is bad!)

Oh, it's a 'utopia' because nobody has to pay rent or is going hungry. Big freaking whoop. *Batman* never has to pay rent or go hungry, and that doesn't seem to have the teensiest impact on his popularity.

The only 'problem' with the Legion's 'utopian future' is people who don't like the Legion using the term incorrectly to talk it down.

It's the old 'relatable' fallacy. I can't 'relate' to the Legion because they are so far in the future. I can't 'relate' to Batman because I'm not a billionaire. I can't 'relate' to Wonder Woman because I'm not a woman. It's all excuses. You either like something or you don't. I don't need a justification not to like Lobo. I don't need a justification to like the Legion. It's all subjective.

[Vakanai]

The dystopian vision of the future has been with us for a very very long time--maybe as long as the utopian vision.

At one time, I hoped that the fad for dystopian futures would wear itself out and the pendulum would swing back to the utopian. But some thirty years on that still hasn't happened. Maybe it's because comic book fantasy is permanently stuck in adolescent arrested development. Not that the readers are adolescent but they're stuck at that phase in their comic book tastes. When we're teens we go through a phase of being skeptical of everything. And some of us never grow out of that. Of course, a lot of teens are also very optimistic--I wish that perspective was shown more.

I guess, because dystopian worlds are so dark, a lot of people mistake that for artistic sophistication. But dystopian stories are easy to do and not all that sophisticated. In reality, it's not that easy to see what is bad or good in a society. A nation where people live in pretty houses with picket fences and colourful gardens might actually be oppressive and soul-sucking. A nation where people have to struggle to survive may yet have a rich culture and strong sense of community.

In my Legion head canon, between the 20th century and the 30th century, the Earth went through many wars and nearly destroyed itself. Throngs left the horrors of their homeworld for the stars, to settle on other worlds and create new civilizations. A lot of Earth's technology and memory was lost. It is only in the last one hundred years--before Imra, Garth and Rokk came to Earth--that our world has pulled itself out of the darkness and rebuilt itself, restoring justice and freedom to its citizens.

The reason the Earth is so hopeful in the late 30th century is because they have managed to overcome that dystopian past. They are motivated to rebuild and reunite. But there are still lots of problems that beset the United Planets and the people from an older generation are not too optimistic. However Imra, Garth and Rokk are young and idealistic.

I think it's less about people's tastes being "adolescent" (I disagree on the very premise that dystopia is more adolescent and utopias somehow more mature) and more the world we live in today. There was more of a need for utopias back in the Legion's days - the very real chance of nuclear Armageddon. It was the Cold War, people had different worries back then. We're just as stressed now, but our stresses are different. Showing a better future gave people something to strive for when we could go extinct because some blockhead misread their radar at some border along the Iron Curtain. A utopia is a welcome escape to that kind of existential crisis. However today's stresses are rooted more in distrust of institutions and each other - a dystopia naturally plays to our current sense of distrust and need for self reliance. Not that utopia isn't needed now, it'd be a great way to show people we should be striving for getting back to a trusting future, but it's a more nuanced and difficult task than either utopia as an escape or dystopia against institutions are. Sense utopia as a pure escape from existential crisis isn't in vogue now (but likely will be as the threat of climate change begins to feel more immediate) dystopia playing on our current frustrations is an easier sale. It's not about people not growing up in their tastes (which I feel is silly - people like what they like, who are we to decide this is mature and this childish), but how the different state of today's world affects them. The Cold War era called for a utopia to escape to - today's divisive world calls for a dystopia to rebel against.

[bat39]

The concept of utopia is kind of tricky. It means to represent a world where the problems from modern world had been overcomed. In the dystopia, the problems of modern world are presented as what dooms the future. Dystopia is presented as a warning, utopia is presented as something to achieve. But that not means there will be not problems in that utopia or which is the cost to keep the utopia working. The line between dystopia and utopia also can be very thin. The future could be a place where every need is satisfied but at the cost of having losing the essense of humanity, with everyone living in a virtual reality, for example.

Dystopia is easy to write also, take modern world problems and made them worse. Writing a world which had overcame those problems need more work and writers are lazy.

Now, directly with the Legion, the problem is not related to the concept itself. Still can work, or even pass through less optimistic stages, as it was done with 5YL, Legion of the damned or Superman and the Legion, but it needs coherence. Not constant reboots than disengage readers from the characters.

The way I see it, 'utopia' and 'dystopia' aren't absolutes, but relative terms. The United States today may seem like a dystopia to some, but its a utopia compared to, say, the Middle Ages. Hell, if the United States wasn't seen as a utopia to people from other societies, there wouldn't be a crisis at the border...

I think the Legion's 31st century is the same. Its a utopia by our 21st century standards, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have problems. Hell, any society which needs superheroes to do superhero stuff definitely has some problems. The tech may be more advanced, life may be more comfortable, and poverty as we know it today may be a thing of the past (literally!) but that doesn't mean crime, terrorism, social conflict and war are unheard of.

I think it's less about people's tastes being "adolescent" (I disagree on the very premise that dystopia is more adolescent and utopias somehow more mature) and more the world we live in today. There was more of a need for utopias back in the Legion's days - the very real chance of nuclear Armageddon. It was the Cold War, people had different worries back then. We're just as stressed now, but our stresses are different. Showing a better future gave people something to strive for when we could go extinct because some blockhead misread their radar at some border along the Iron Curtain. A utopia is a welcome escape to that kind of existential crisis. However today's stresses are rooted more in distrust of institutions and each other - a dystopia naturally plays to our current sense of distrust and need for self reliance. Not that utopia isn't needed now, it'd be a great way to show people we should be striving for getting back to a trusting future, but it's a more nuanced and difficult task than either utopia as an escape or dystopia against institutions are. Sense utopia as a pure escape from existential crisis isn't in vogue now (but likely will be as the threat of climate change begins to feel more immediate) dystopia playing on our current frustrations is an easier sale. It's not about people not growing up in their tastes (which I feel is silly - people like what they like, who are we to decide this is mature and this childish), but how the different state of today's world affects them. The Cold War era called for a utopia to escape to - today's divisive world calls for a dystopia to rebel against.

That's an interesting take!

[Digifiend]

The dystopian vision of the future has been with us for a very very long time--maybe as long as the utopian vision.

Yeah, doesn't HG Wells' The Time Machine feature a dystopian future?

[Powerboy]

The Legion was created in a time when people were more hopeful about the future. Utopian visions of the future were everywhere, (the Jetsons). We are in a very different place as a society these days. Dystopias are all the rage, and overly positive views of the future seem unrealistic to vast swathes of the population.

Yes, the original version of the Legion from the late 1950s was very much a Utopian vision of the future, as was Star Trek a few years later.

Of course, there were also things like "1984".

The mother of one of my best friends is a big fan of TOS and TNG but she didn't care that much for DS9. She's very insightful as to why. She's fully aware that the main reason is that TOS and TNG (in the early seasons but never completely loses it) has a Utopian feeling of a future where humans have become better. DS9 moves away from that.

Given our current situation, I think one could call it either way. There will be people who want the more Dystopian presentation of the Legion because they perceive it as "realistic" because it's the world today. There will be others who prefer a more Utopian version because either they are older and grew up on that world or they get more than enough of it in reality and the last thing they want is for their entertainment to be saturated with it. They want escape. There's that famous C.S. Lewis comment that, to paraphrase, is that being disenchanted is a choice by people who don't want to be enchanted.

I suspect that one of the reasons stuff like MoS and B v S was so divisive is really because it's such a Dystopian view. Whether or not it is realistic is irrelevant. If it is realistic, that just makes people want the Utopian feeling even more.

I admit I would like a Legion that was not a bunch of mohawks with attitudes which is very '80s anyway and outdated. I'd prefer a 30th/ 31st century that has complete racial, ethnic, sexual orientation and sex acceptance and, because of that, has a Utopian feeling. So sort of like merging the 1950s with the best parts of today and calling it the future.