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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Default Heroes with rogue’s galleries are better franchise material then heroes without.

    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.

  2. #2
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    It does take a while to build a rogues gallery, especially nowadays when comics tend to have longer stories.

    It took Spider-Man two years to get to the Sinister Six, and that was at a time most stories were an issue long.

    There is a complicating factor that characters tend to have weaker enemies in their earliest stories when they're just getting used to their powers.
    Last edited by Mister Mets; 06-13-2021 at 08:52 PM.
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  3. #3
    Boisterously Confused
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.
    Arrow seemed to make a specialty of this.

  4. #4
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    Heroes with rogue’s galleries are better franchise material then heroes without.
    But in order to develop a good rogues gallery a hero needs to have been around for a while.

    And while people complain that it's harder to develop brand-new characters these days than it is to just reuse an old character's name for a new hero (due to at least some name recognition with an older name), same holds true for new villains. How often is a memorable brand-new villain created without some sort of legacy name? How often are "new" villains created that are a bit trendy with their name / gimmick, making them less memorable once whatever trend the villain was linked to becomes so five minutes ago?

  5. #5
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.
    About Ms. Marvel: you do realize her name already makes her a legacy character that's also a part of an even bigger franchise?

  6. #6
    Silver Sentinel BeastieRunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.
    I can't think of many memorable Silver Surfer or Captain Marvel villains that wasn't borrowed for about 24-50 some issues.

    I would put current Ms. Marvel in the same Silver Age category as those two.

    It takes time to build ...
    Last edited by BeastieRunner; 06-14-2021 at 03:40 PM.
    "Always listen to the crazy scientist with a weird van or armful of blueprints and diagrams." -- Vibranium

  7. #7
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    Plus don't forget, creators/companies are lot more guarded about coming up with new characters and the legal ramifications there of. Just like I'm sure there's artists/writers thinking, "I have an idea for a new villain but instead of putting him in Ms Marvel ( or whatever) I'm save him for my indie thing." I'm also sure there's been an editor or two saying, "Oh, you have a new villain for Ms Marvel? Well, your guy has heat powers...why don't you just use Firelord instead?"

  8. #8
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    About Ms. Marvel: you do realize her name already makes her a legacy character that's also a part of an even bigger franchise?
    And on that cover, we see a Spider-Man villain.

    To be fair, it did take a long time for this version of Ms Marvel to become a major solo hero.
    Sincerely,
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  9. #9
    Astonishing Member CSTowle's Avatar
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    Eh, the X-Men stole Mystique and she's one of their best villains. And Deathbird. Probably for the best for her, on that one.
    Formerly finfangfool

  10. #10
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    And on that cover, we see a Spider-Man villain.

    To be fair, it did take a long time for this version of Ms Marvel to become a major solo hero.
    And yet, she was already a part of the Captain Marvel (Marvel Comics version) franchise when she first appeared.

    Sort of like a Marvel version of Supergirl if you think about it.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.
    Most heroes don't have notable villains, do they? Most of them seem to go to Spider-Man or the X-Men. Maybe Marvel needs to think outside the box

  12. #12
    Mighty Member TheRay's Avatar
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    You mean heroes with large rogues galleries. I can't think of many heroes who have 0 rogues, even some rogues have their own rogues.

  13. #13
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRay View Post
    You mean heroes with large rogues galleries. I can't think of many heroes who have 0 rogues, even some rogues have their own rogues.
    Some heroes don't seem to have their own personal villains these days.

    Some get by (or try to get by) fighting previously established villains that somebody else previously fought.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.
    Kamala has plenty of her own villains and has only used a few enemies from other rogues' galleries. I don't think we have any reason to worry about her.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member LordMikel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    It’s why the modern trend of creating heroes without personal rogue’s baffle me. Miss Marvel is a cool character, but I fear for her long term sustainability because I feel the higher ups at marvel think she can just skate along poaching villains from other franchises.
    So Miss Marvel was used as an example. But let's look at facts as pointed out by other people.

    It took Spider-man 2 years to develop the Sinister 6. Six villains interesting enough to form together to fight Spider-man.

    Kamala debuted 8 years ago.

    Someone said, longer stories now. I'll concede that point. Could we have, next issue the debut of the Marvelous Six, dedicated to taking down Miss Marvel? 6 members of her rogue's gallery teaming up to defeat her? (I honestly don't know, I don't read her comic, but since this thread started I'm thinking no, but I could be wrong.)

    It was also mentioned she is a part of the Captain Marvel family. But other than Moonstone, I don't even think I could name a Captain Marvel villain.

    Scarlet Witch a few years back had a 15 issue series. Which was her wandering around trying to find herself. It had a few villains, but none I would say, "That villain needs to return."

    But yes, I do agree with the statement. We need some good villains.
    I think restorative nostalgia is the number one issue with comic book fans.
    A fine distinction between two types of Nostalgia:

    Reflective Nostalgia allows us to savor our memories but accepts that they are in the past
    Restorative Nostalgia pushes back against the here and now, keeping us stuck trying to relive our glory days.

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