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  1. #16
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    if you don't start at new 52 then you're probably going to be confused. Reading new 52 Superman plus convergence is a must to understand what's happening in Superman now and recently. Greg Rucka, the writer for Wonder Woman Rebirth specifically retconned some of the things from new 52 Wonder Woman in response to some fans requests. But new 52 Wonder Woman is still the superior series. Justice League new 52 is a must and way better than Justice League Rebirth. Batman during both periods did not change that much. Cyborg Rebirth is probably one of the highlights. Cyborg segue ways into Dark Metal mini-series. From there he goes into Justice League Odyssey which in my opinion kind of set up Darkseid's new status quote for the current Infinite Frontier. Cyborg is the bridge that connects new 52 and pre52 with Flashpoint, being the first, and only, Black founding member of the Justice League.

  2. #17
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    If you start reading superheroes with N52's JL and don't drop them immediately... that was the worst origin of the JL and my least favourite thing Johns has written but there are better stories if you continue with your plan. I dropped comics as a teen and got back into the hobby thanks to Smith's Green Arrow and his Daredevil because I thought Chasing Amy and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back were funny back then. I still like those tales. They made me a fan but there's so much great and better stuff out there.

  3. #18
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    If you liked initial New 52 JL arc then you are likely to love later arcs like Throne of Atlantis and Forever Evil event.

  4. #19
    Incredible Member Hol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BatmanJones View Post
    And honestly, I think all readers of superhero comics started in the middle of a huge story thatís been going for 80 years.

    Even if the New 52 were a complete misfire (and I donít think it was), itís the first clean jumping on point in forever. In a way, itís the only one.

    Even going down the rabbit hole of the not so good Earth-2, for one extreme example, could lead to an interest in back stories. Anything could. Isnít that sort of the way we all got started?
    Agreed! My first comic was Crisis on Infinite Earths #8 and I was hooked right away and loved digging up back issues and learning about characters. I never looked at history or continuity as a bad thing. I loved it.

  5. #20
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easybroth;5583251
    I ask for no spoilers, I'm sure I'll accidentally spoil things for myself by being overzealous with the googling, but I'll do my best. I'm going to try to maintain a rough map of my plan to get through the comics, again by using an amalgamation of several website's reading orders (of which I'll credit in due time) and wherever my interest seems to take me.

    I'm going to try to roughly follow publication orders, I thought about trying it chronologically, but I don't think I'd enjoy reading it as much, I also don't know if I trust that anyone who puts reading orders together could truly, accurately do such a colossal task. I don't want to just bounce around haphazardly as I know there is no way to perfectly line anything up. So my goal is to keep characters that make sense to be read together, together. If a character appears in a story and they have a arc out there in roughly the same publication period they are going to be moved up the list and be more likely to be read sooner. I expect this to be pretty interesting and a very long term project. I hope CBR is paying their server bill because I'm hoping this thread is around for awhile.

    From the reading order sites I've used (comicbookreadingorders.com, comicbooktreasury.com, mythbank.com, readingorders.net, collectededitions.blogspot.com (probably my favorite) as well as the Patreon user ComicBookOrderly, who I paid a few bucks to access his order (which has a few issues, but it has an excellent checklist).

    It seems I'm supposed to start out with the opening arc for [B
    Justice League.[/B]


    After that, it will be Action Comics:


    Then, after that? I'm really not sure. I'll have to see where it takes me and/or take suggestions from the community. Looking forward to it and I'll take any suggestions you have.
    Justice League is the main throughline story of New 52 so make that your main.

    After that it's Aquaman, Justice League Dark, and Justice League of America that's directly connected and cross over/ Although starting vol. 6, the main Justice League just goes off on its own with the main plot of New 52 that you almost don't need to read the other titles unless you want to

    Justice League Dark has a cross over with I Vampire in the second volume, but after that they run on their own.
    The 3 League titles are built to cross in Trinity War and during Forever Evil, but after that they run on their own.
    Aquaman cross with Justice League at vol. 3 but after that runs on its own

    Action Comics Vol. 1-3 is set in the past and kinda stand on its own, so it doesn't cross over in Superman at first. Action and Superman only started sharing the same story in volume 5 onwards.
    Before that Superman, Supergirl, and Superboy share the same story in Vol. 3
    Superboy, Teen Titans, and Legion Lost cross over in Vol. 2
    Superboy and Teen Titans kinda go hand in hand for most of their run

    Batman covers his own corner with the rest of the Batman family titles. So is Green Lantern family titles. Kinda like Superman family titles, they have their own reading order. Each of these family titles run on their own with occasional reference in other titles.

    In the case of Batman and Superman families, since there's also the Batman/Superman title, each of their story development is referenced there.

    Wonder Woman is the most independent, but elements of that story is referenced in Superman/Wonder Woman.

    Animal Man and Swamp Thing go hand in hand but don't connect with other titles much

    Ignore other people's opinion and make your own. Like, for example, if this is your first time in DC like me, then it's not gonna matter if other people think this run is the worst ever, because you're not gonna know that it's the worse ever.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 06-14-2021 at 09:38 AM.

  6. #21
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    One piece of advice, remember that these characters have dramatically changed over the decades, a lot of times in directions that lost a lot of fans and gained a few new ones. Try not to pigeonhole your view of these characters based on what you read in the new 52. It's fine for you to enjoy it though.

    For example, I liked reading the first few stories of new 52 Wonder Woman since I didn't know much about her at the time, and there are still parts of it I really like, but a great amount of it goes against what I now find appealing about the character. She originally came from a peaceful society of women with fantastic technology and she was a radical feminist adventurer that likes to wrestle beings from all over the universe and is actively creating a new group of amazons. She also barely uses the lasso in that era, even though the lasso of truth makes far more sense for her ideals than a sword.

    Same thing could apply to other characters like Superman, Teen Titans, etc. Don't worry too much about continuity though, and remember that DC isn't really supposed to be a cohesive universe, it's just a playground.

  7. #22
    Spectacular Member Kevin Street's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DragonPiece View Post
    I disagree with this. I started with the new 52 and it gave me a better appreciation of rebirth era when that started. Going from a universe that didn't seem to have a lot of relationshps between heroes and missing connections too all tha twe got during reirth was nice.
    I see what you mean. For a new reader the contrast makes Rebirth more fun. That's a fair point.

    And I don't consider Rebirth and the current Infinite Frontier era to be the same, there are very diferent goals between the two.
    Yes, you could subdivide those four broad categories into many different eras when you look closely at them. For instance 1939-1985 includes the Golden, Silver and Bronze ages, three very different times with wildly different types of art and storytelling. I'm just trying to look at this from the broadest possible perspective as the four eras where DC continuity is most consistent with itself. All the stories from 1939-1985 "happened," although a reader going through them chronologically will discover that the earlier stories happened in a different universe than the later ones. Then if you go through 1986-2011 chronologically it will all make sense, although there were many retcons and reboots within the larger story. Similarly the New 52 is mostly its own era. Then in 2016 we went back to most of the continuity from 1986 on, although with so many retcons and stories from The New 52 still in the mix that it's pretty much a new era.

  8. #23
    Spectacular Member Kevin Street's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Restingvoice View Post
    Batman covers his own corner with the rest of the Batman family titles. So is Green Lantern family titles. Kinda like Superman family titles, they have their own reading order. Each of these family titles run on their own with occasional reference in other titles.
    This is probably the most confusing thing for new readers. Batman has never been rebooted. The closest thing to a reboot that Batman ever got was "Batman: Year One" by Frank Miller, but that's a retelling of his origin and not an attempt to wipe the slate clean. In practice Batman is a continuing saga much like Spider-Man over at Marvel. Over time the old stories grow misty and are seldom mentioned, and some of them like his origin are occasionally retold for modern audiences, but all the stories in between still "happened" and you occasionally see old characters come back after decades away.

    Green Lantern is sort of like Batman, but only since 2004. Modern Green Lantern continuity starts with the Geoff Johns miniseries "Green Lantern: Rebirth" from 2004, that literally brings Hal Jordan back from the dead and reinvigorates all the other characters associated with him. After that comes the Green Lantern regular series by Johns, that completely reinvents the Green Lantern concept with stories like "Sinestro War." Everything Green Lantern since then, whether it's Hal Jordan or another character, has all followed the same continuity no matter what era the main DC universe was in. It all "happened" and it's all radically different from the pre-2004 stories.
    Last edited by Kevin Street; 06-14-2021 at 05:18 PM.

  9. #24
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    Default Action Comics Vol. 1 - Superman and the Men of Steel



    Contains Issues #1-8

    *Will Contain Spoilers


    It took me a second to realize this was a younger Superman and this was happening prior to the events of Justice League, Vol. 1. I imagine these kinds of things are something I'll have to get used to. The art for young superman was effective, and seeing him as a hipster (Harry Potter look-alike) bumming around in a crappy apartment barely paying rent wasn't something I expected (his landlord's name is Ms. Nyxly, that's such a weird name it has to be a reference to something right?). I really enjoyed the first few issues, they had effective cliffhangers. But, after issue 3, things got less intriguing.

    I was confused by the characterization of Lex Luthor, he's overweight, insecure, slimy, apparently easily flattered, are those all normal character traits of his? I figured insecure, but the other ones threw me off. He's not likable at all, but doesn't seem to present a real threat at this point to Superman, but I assume that changes.

    The overarching villain this arc was the Collector of Worlds, essentially a giant alien nerd who wants to collect all failing worlds, including Earth and Krypton. I thought it was interesting one, but isn't that a Justice League level event too? It took Darkseid appearing to get them to show up in JL: Vol. 1. The world (minus the shrunken bubble of Metropolis) is on the verge of annihilation and only young Superman is on the scene?! Makes me wonder what kind of colossal threats the JL is going to face in their next volumes, if this didn't get their attention. But, I probably shouldn't try to apply such logic to these things.

    As the arc went on, there's a temporary flash forward, Superman is shot in the head with a microscopic bullet, there's the introduction to the Anti-Superman Army which was confusing. The Legion of Superheroes shows up at one point, which I didn't even know they existed. Their names were so foreign to me, i.e. "Saturn Girl", that they sounded like knock off superheroes as opposed to 'real' ones. It's never fun having to re read and just be confused, but I was able to follow the story well enough, but issues #4-#6 weren't as enjoyable to me as the rest of the series.

    The backup feature with Henry Irons (Steel), was solid and he's a likable character, but I was taken aback by the lameness of destroying Steel Soldier via flash drive to a USB port on the suit. The size of Steel Soldier seemed to change a few times too, or I had a hard time gaining perspective on the art.

    Action Comics, Vol. 1 started very strong with three solid issues, but it started to lose me towards the end, however the ending was satisfying enough and it does a good job of establishing Superman as a hero of Metropolis/humanity going forward, and a public that is increasingly aware and more comfortable with his existence. I didn't care for the dialogue at points, it felt unnatural. Some odd lines that stuck out, presented completely out of context: "I'll raise you light!" and "I am an alien...a real life alien."

    Overall Score

    Not to repeat myself, but I started off very encouraged by the series, but that waned as I read on. So, I have to slot this one below Justice League, and just grade it as okay.

    Code:
    Justice League #1: Origins
    Action Comics #1: Superman and the Men of Steel
    Some suggestion on this site as well as some others make it look like I should keep reading Action Comics for another volume or two, and that might be the plan. I've also seen the suggestion of reading Volume #1 of Green Arrow, which seems more likely what I'm going to do. Three volumes of Action Comics will have me a good year or two ahead in publication, and I'm not sure if I want to do that.

    Stay tuned and thanks for reading!

  10. #25
    Astonishing Member batnbreakfast's Avatar
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    You're setting yourself up for mystery. The good Green Arrow runs are by Kevin Smith, Brad Meltzer and Jeff Lemire. I didn't like Mike Grell but many do. For what it's worth I hope you enjoy what you read and keeping it up

  11. #26
    Leftbrownie Alpha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Street View Post

    Green Lantern is sort of like Batman, but only since 2004. Modern Green Lantern continuity starts with the Geoff Johns miniseries "Green Lantern: Rebirth" from 2004, that literally brings Hal Jordan back from the dead and reinvigorates all the other characters associated with him. After that comes the Green Lantern regular series by Johns, that completely reinvents the Green Lantern concept with stories like "Sinestro War." Everything Green Lantern since then, whether it's Hal Jordan or another character, has all followed the same continuity no matter what era the main DC universe was in. It all "happened" and it's all radically different from the pre-2004 stories.
    Green Lantern still references things from at least the 90s. John Stewart as a human Guardian, when his wife died, and the planet he sort of destroyed. They also reference when Kyle Rayner took over for example. I'm su re there are references to the 80s, but I'm not familliar enough with that period to comment.
    Last edited by Alpha; 06-17-2021 at 03:23 AM.

  12. #27
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    Default Review #3

    Green Arrow Vol. 1: The Midas Touch


    Contains Issues #1-6

    *Will Contain Spoilers


    Hmmm... Well, what the hell was that? Is Green Arrow always so unlikeable? I can't tell if his unlikability is on purpose or not. It does seem self-aware that both Oliver and GA are not easy to root for, but man! And is his assistant who is always in his ear perhaps even more so? At one point Green Arrow (after beating up Lime and Light) wonders aloud if he is going to have to beat up any more skanks. I'm not averse to foul language, calling someone a skank or much of anything else, but it didn't make me like the character right off the bat. He seems not only driven to be this vigilante but somehow acts like he HAS to be, as if he has no other choice, and resents the fact that he has to. The art was kind of a drag, it seems they changed up not only the author but the artist mid way through this volume, and you can tell. I didn't think Green Arrow looked like he does on the cover of the volume for the majority of the issues.

    At the end of issue #1 there is a reveal of the first villain, Rush, and his henchmen, and it comes off like a joke. They all look so goofy and non-threatening. The social media aspect of live streaming the death of Green Arrow already seems dated. Rush has 1.2 million followers on his social media platform, that's nothing these days! But, in 2011, was probably a pretty hefty amount of followers. Rush and his motley crew are taken care of without too many problems. Then Green Arrow fights a toxic waste monster, who was a far more interesting character. His lover Blood Rose ended up being a robot, but it felt like it was supposed to be a big twist ending and it fell flat.

    Of the three I've read, easily my least favorite.

    I am confused by what the map of the U.S. looks like in this universe. Seattle apparently is the same Seattle in our time? But is there a New York City?
    I assumed Metropolis and Gotham replaced real cities, not existing side by side with them. Mentions the NBA, the University of Washington and some other things. Oliver is also apparently good at basketball. I would have found that storyline more interesting than this one.

    I was ready for this one to be over.

    Code:
    Justice League #1: Origins
    Action Comics #1: Superman and the Men of Steel
    Green Arrow #1: The Midas Touch
    I'm thinking Flash, Vol. 1 next.
    Attached Images Attached Images

  13. #28
    Incredible Member Ishmael's Avatar
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    New52 Green Arrow doesn't become good until Lemire takes over the writing. You should really save yourself the hassle and just skip to that.

    And what people have indicated before is pretty much true -- must reads are: Justice League, Batman, Action Comics, Detective Comics, Superman, Wonder Woman, Superman/Wonder Woman, Batman/Superman, Green Lantern, the early Flash stories, and Aquaman. They're not all great (Superman is really uneven, as is Action after Morrison leaves) - but they seem like the core books of the DCU (and not always that good - such as Superman and Action Comics at times).

    Some enjoyable secondary books were: OMAC, Frankenstein, Nightwing (which becomes the excellent Grayson post Forever Evil), I Vampire, Justice League Dark, Dial H, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, Demon Knights, Gotham by Midnight, and Green Arrow once Lemire comes aboard. All of them are fairly fun to read (although Swamp Thing and Animal Man kind of suffer from decompressed storytelling) and hold up pretty well even now I think. But there is a lot of dreck that you can skip (Green Team? Men of War? Pandora? Talon? the Savage Hawkman? All utterly dispensable). A few things like Justice League of America are tied into Forever Evil (which was very good), and thus you should take a look at them, despite they're not being all that compelling. Same with Earth 2 and World's Finest, which eventually tie into Convergence, which has HUGE repercussions for Superman.

    But like most people have said, things change when Rebirth hits, and there's a definite reset button that gets hit (not fully another reboot, but certainly a departure from the New 52 for the continuity that preceded it).

    Some of the New 52 is quite good but tainted by being associated with the New 52 - some of it is really just pedestrian - and some of it really bad. But having read most of it, I think the ones I've mentioned are core books to read to build a base for getting into what's going on with DC now. But like you've seen with the first GA tpb - some of it is "meh" at best.
    Last edited by Ishmael; 06-17-2021 at 09:10 PM.

  14. #29
    Astonishing Member Factor's Avatar
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    I did warn you about New 52 Green Arrow. Skip everything until you reach Lemire's run.

  15. #30
    Extraordinary Member Restingvoice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Easybroth View Post
    I was confused by the characterization of Lex Luthor, he's overweight, insecure, slimy, apparently easily flattered, are those all normal character traits of his? I figured insecure, but the other ones threw me off. He's not likable at all, but doesn't seem to present a real threat at this point to Superman, but I assume that changes.

    The overarching villain this arc was the Collector of Worlds, essentially a giant alien nerd who wants to collect all failing worlds, including Earth and Krypton. I thought it was interesting one, but isn't that a Justice League level event too? It took Darkseid appearing to get them to show up in JL: Vol. 1. The world (minus the shrunken bubble of Metropolis) is on the verge of annihilation and only young Superman is on the scene?! Makes me wonder what kind of colossal threats the JL is going to face in their next volumes, if this didn't get their attention. But, I probably shouldn't try to apply such logic to these things.

    As the arc went on, there's a temporary flash forward, Superman is shot in the head with a microscopic bullet, there's the introduction to the Anti-Superman Army which was confusing. The Legion of Superheroes shows up at one point, which I didn't even know they existed. Their names were so foreign to me, i.e. "Saturn Girl", that they sounded like knock off superheroes as opposed to 'real' ones. It's never fun having to re read and just be confused, but I was able to follow the story well enough, but issues #4-#6 weren't as enjoyable to me as the rest of the series.

    Action Comics, Vol. 1 started very strong with three solid issues, but it started to lose me towards the end, however the ending was satisfying enough and it does a good job of establishing Superman as a hero of Metropolis/humanity going forward, and a public that is increasingly aware and more comfortable with his existence. I didn't care for the dialogue at points, it felt unnatural. Some odd lines that stuck out, presented completely out of context: "I'll raise you light!" and "I am an alien...a real life alien."

    Some suggestion on this site as well as some others make it look like I should keep reading Action Comics for another volume or two, and that might be the plan. I've also seen the suggestion of reading Volume #1 of Green Arrow, which seems more likely what I'm going to do. Three volumes of Action Comics will have me a good year or two ahead in publication, and I'm not sure if I want to do that.
    Overweight slimy scientist/businessman Luthor was in the 60s and 80s incarnation of the character. Other interpretations have depicted him as more muscular/athletic.

    The Justice League gathers because Darkseid attacks cities all over the world at once including Atlantis, attracting the attention of each cities native heroes, while The Collector only attacked Metropolis. Batman and the others wouldn't know what happened during this time and/or they probably have their own problems.

    Action Vol.1-3 is the complete story but separate from other stories of New 52 so you can read it anytime you like.
    There's a reason issue #5-6 feel awkward, but it's only revealed near the climax of the story. Many people have rightfully feel that this eighteen issue story arc is not a good way to introduce Superman of the new era because it took too long to understand what actually going on, but just The Collector story is fine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Easybroth View Post
    I am confused by what the map of the U.S. looks like in this universe. Seattle apparently is the same Seattle in our time? But is there a New York City?
    I assumed Metropolis and Gotham replaced real cities, not existing side by side with them. Mentions the NBA, the University of Washington and some other things. Oliver is also apparently good at basketball. I would have found that storyline more interesting than this one.
    No, Metropolis and Gotham exist alongside New York, Washington and all other cities. The exact location of the fictional cities are never mentioned, only the state and general landscape. Gotham for example is off the east coast in New Jersey, but that's it.
    Last edited by Restingvoice; 06-19-2021 at 04:07 AM.

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