Are Polaris and Rachel two potential Omega Level mutants in waiting?

[Havok83]

In Hickman's version, they need to be the most powerful of their class and also be more powerful than anything achievable through other means.

So, they have two lines: kill their parents and any other mutant more powerful than them (and still be more powerful than any non-mutant), or somehow become more powerful than their parent.

I do not put it past writers to make either happen.

Jean already died, but that didnt make Rachel an Omega bc she has a measurable upper limit to her power. Based on the definition, she doesnt have unlimited potential, or else she'd share the spot with Jean and Quentin

[Devaishwarya]

Given the nature of their powers...both Rachel and Lorna may only have measurable limits until they decide to push past those limits.

[Will Evans]

Given the nature of their powers...both Rachel and Lorna may only have measurable limits until they decide to push past those limits.

Exactly.

This is what I want to see

[salarta]

Which of course was decades ago.

[cranger]

Jean already died, but that didnt make Rachel an Omega bc she has a measurable upper limit to her power. Based on the definition, she doesnt have unlimited potential, or else she'd share the spot with Jean and Quentin

While I admit I might be reading into things, others are as well with this 'unlimited potential' term that is not there. The criteria is that the measurable power cannot be surpassed by any other measurable means. If Magneto can be measured as being more powerful than Lorna, than Lorna cannot be an Omega. If Magneto was out of the picture, than we could ask if there exists anything that can surpass Lorna now.

[sunofdarkchild]

While I admit I might be reading into things, others are as well with this 'unlimited potential' term that is not there. The criteria is that the measurable power cannot be surpassed by any other measurable means. If Magneto can be measured as being more powerful than Lorna, than Lorna cannot be an Omega. If Magneto was out of the picture, than we could ask if there exists anything that can surpass Lorna now.

The current definition is that an omega-level mutant is someone's whose power cannot be theoretically surpassed. So even if Jean and Magneto died, that would not make Rachel and Lorna omegas since it is already known that it is possible to surpass them as their parents already did. Magneto being an Omega means that Lorna cannot surpass him, ever. At best she can equal him, in which case they would both be omegas. But if she surpassed him then his classification as an omega would be incorrect. That would apply just as much if Magneto were to die, because someone more powerful than her already existed. In the next million years there will be no one more powerful at wielding magnetism than Magneto. That is what it means to be an omega-level mutant. Magneto does not have unlimited power. He simply is as powerful as any individual with his powerset could possibly get, for all time. They explain this with Forge. He is the most powerful in terms of his specific powers right now, but it is possible for someone who is more powerful to come along, so he is not an omega.

[Havok83]

The current definition is that an omega-level mutant is someone's whose power cannot be theoretically surpassed. So even if Jean and Magneto died, that would not make Rachel and Lorna omegas since it is already known that it is possible to surpass them as their parents already did. Magneto being an Omega means that Lorna cannot surpass him, ever. At best she can equal him, in which case they would both be omegas. But if she surpassed him then his classification as an omega would be incorrect. That would apply just as much if Magneto were to die, because someone more powerful than her already existed. In the next million years there will be no one more powerful at wielding magnetism than Magneto. That is what it means to be an omega-level mutant. Magneto does not have unlimited power. He simply is as powerful as any individual with his powerset could possibly get, for all time. They explain this with Forge. He is the most powerful in terms of his specific powers right now, but it is possible for someone who is more powerful to come along, so he is not an omega.

Nah, it was explained with Forge that he has already been surpassed, by multiple humans

[Grey]

Hickman tried to make what “omega level” meant be much more clear, more straightforward and a smaller umbrella.

I get what he was aiming for but I think his wors choices in that data page were unclear. Like others I translated it as omega being the “#1” in that domain. Therefore two couldn’t hold the same rank unless they were somehow tied (however that is measured).

Either that s not what he meant, or his definition didn’t stick with readers, or both.

Regardless, the fact that readers (we) still have discussions about who may or may not be omega level suggests his goal failed (whether reader or writer fault).

[Grey]

Side note, I’m still salty Jean was classified as omega telepathic Instead of telekinetic. No, I don’t have a ratiionak reason. I just always felt her tk was her more interesting and skilled power of the two. #whine

[salarta]

Regardless, the fact that readers (we) still have discussions about who may or may not be omega level suggests his goal failed (whether reader or writer fault).

Or alternately, that he designed it with the intent to have readers discuss and argue over it.

[Grey]

Or alternately, that he designed it with the intent to have readers discuss and argue over it.

That’s a possibility, but I really, really don’t think so.

He mentioned on Twitter before hiis run that he couldn’t believe how much time was being invested to specifically naming omega level mutants and how the term had been used too loosely.

Then he made that very specific data page on day 1 of his run with definitions.

I’ll see if I can find the tweet. I really think he was trying to “settle” the discussions but, meh.

[Grey]

Found a source with quotes.

His intentions were clear it just didn’t settle anything like he wanted. I gusss fans just like discussing omega level potential 🤣😁(doesn’t bother me. I think it was a needless fools errand to try and contain it at this point).

E401EDC5-C8F4-404E-B364-3484951C0FF2.jpg

[cranger]

The current definition is that an omega-level mutant is someone's whose power cannot be theoretically surpassed. So even if Jean and Magneto died, that would not make Rachel and Lorna omegas since it is already known that it is possible to surpass them as their parents already did. Magneto being an Omega means that Lorna cannot surpass him, ever. At best she can equal him, in which case they would both be omegas. But if she surpassed him then his classification as an omega would be incorrect. That would apply just as much if Magneto were to die, because someone more powerful than her already existed. In the next million years there will be no one more powerful at wielding magnetism than Magneto. That is what it means to be an omega-level mutant. Magneto does not have unlimited power. He simply is as powerful as any individual with his powerset could possibly get, for all time. They explain this with Forge. He is the most powerful in terms of his specific powers right now, but it is possible for someone who is more powerful to come along, so he is not an omega.

I cannot argue against that interpretation, but take Jean for example. How is her telepathy measured? What is the hypothetical extent of power possible? Is her being able to maybe maintain a link from Earth to the Sun the limit? Is it not hypothetical that someone could establish a link over a further distance? What is the range of the Cerebro backups? Is telepathy just talking? Mind control? Something else? Is Jean a match for someone with the Phoenix force? What about Moondragon combined with the PF? Despite the attempts at technical language, the list just reads as a best in class.

[Havok83]

I cannot argue against that interpretation, but take Jean for example. How is her telepathy measured? What is the hypothetical extent of power possible? Is her being able to maybe maintain a link from Earth to the Sun the limit? Is it not hypothetical that someone could establish a link over a further distance? What is the range of the Cerebro backups? Is telepathy just talking? Mind control? Something else? Is Jean a match for someone with the Phoenix force? What about Moondragon combined with the PF? Despite the attempts at technical language, the list just reads as a best in class.

Its arbitrary and the list is really something that Xavier came up with. Apocalypse could come tomorrow and have his own definition. Limitation is whatever one wants it to be.

With the example of Jean though, we saw her potential pushed when she was a teen when she psychically siphoned power from Phoenix, Galactus and an entire planet of beings. Any feat she has done in the current era could potentially be boosted to exponential levels were she to do that same trick.

[salarta]

Found a source with quotes.

His intentions were clear it just didn’t settle anything like he wanted. I gusss fans just like discussing omega level potential 🤣😁(doesn’t bother me. I think it was a needless fools errand to try and contain it at this point).

E401EDC5-C8F4-404E-B364-3484951C0FF2.jpg

Hmm. In that case, I think a lot of the problem is simply that there's decades worth of history he didn't know when formulating the criteria and deciding who would fit. Which isn't a mark against him. It's impossible for anyone to know everything. There's characters, stories, statements, etc that have been forgotten because nobody bothered to remember their contributions. Sort of a "you don't know what you don't know" situation. But I think it's clear at this point that either the definition of Omega, the list of who qualifies, or how those things were decided needs revision.

Frankly speaking, it would have been better if there were several rounds of "testing" it first or a built-in explanation for discrepancies. It's easier to accept if it's an in-the-works concept, if the list isn't considered a complete list, if it's coming from a certain in-universe perspective, etc. Not as easy when it's "Word of God" stuff where a character being left off the list can negatively impact them by killing potential future stories, effectively retconning past stories, or forcing relationships between characters down only certain paths. It's why I've said before that the entire classification in and of itself shouldn't even exist. It's an artificial limiter that needlessly kills potential for stories and characters and offers nothing in return.

Although also speaking frankly, even in a hypothetical situation where there's an absolutely perfect and irrefutable definition and list for Omega, there would still be discussions and arguments. People are going to argue for their faves to be on lists like this - because ultimately these lists are really just entrenched biases given structure to make them look more objective than they really are.