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  1. #676
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Again: literally declared themselves rulers of Earth. It hasn't been exactly a secret that the mutants all now agreed with Magneto that they're racially superior.
    Yeah mutants have embraced the ideology that their the "next step" in human evolution and tbh they never really lost that. It's a sentiment they shared during Morrison's run. The difference being they've never pursued the ideology so aggressively before they've always tried to "make nice" with their oppressors and more worried about rocking the boat.

    They're done with that. After so many genocides they're finally putting their foot down. And that's what's really getting the humans upset. In less than a year mutants went from an endangered species of a couple thousand scattered around the world to creating their own nation and becoming a major superpower in not only earth but on the Galactic stage as well.

    No matter how you look at it that's pretty terrifying. And they don't plan on slowing down either.

  2. #677
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    Dare I say but I would love if this actually marked Marvel officially departing from ‘the world outside your window’ that has screwed over so many promising ideas (X or otherwise)

    It’s still a restriction even on Hickman, and no franchise would suffer from being able to expand on their ideas

    And because Marvel NYC can finally become the cyberpunk/70’s noir dystopian hellhole it was always meant to be

  3. #678
    Sarveśām Svastir Bhavatu Devaishwarya's Avatar
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    @Loke13
    And good for them. It's about damn time.
    The push back from the insecure is inevitable but they can be dealt with accordingly.
    My Summer rain. My rooftop in Japan. My quiet in the storm. *cries* Al Ewing is GOD...Praise His name! Uplift Him in song! Glorify His works!

  4. #679
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    @Loke13
    And good for them. It's about damn time.
    The push back from the insecure is inevitable but they can be dealt with accordingly.
    Unless it's waning (buying) reader interest and ignorant/incapable writers/editors. Even a planet full of omega mutants would not be able to overcome that enemy.

  5. #680
    BANNED davetvs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Yeah, my favorite thing about minority allegories is...turning those allegories into supremacists. Hooray.

    It's like those people who unironically think Killmonger was right in the Black Panther movie, because he wanted genocide and imperialism, but this time in the other direction, so it's fine. (God I can't wait for the MCU X-Men, who definitely won't be constantly espousing ethnonationalism and racial supremacist ideology)

    The master race thing doesn't hold water in a universe in which X-Men are not the only beings with superpowers. Are the Fantastic Four a Master Race? The Avengers?

    Did this make sense in your head? The Fantastic Four are four people. The Avengers all got their powers through various distinct means. Killmonger was right in Black Panther in that he had a point and his general perspective was justifiable, it was his actions and goals that made him a villain.

  6. #681
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gonnagiveittoya View Post
    Again: literally declared themselves rulers of Earth. It hasn't been exactly a secret that the mutants all now agreed with Magneto that they're racially superior.
    Humanity on real earth:
    The kids we raised have stepped up and are ready to let us retire.

    LETS GO ON A CRUISE AND MOVE TO BOCA!

    Humanity in the 616:
    The kids we raised have stepped up and are ready to let us retire.

    KILL THEM FOR THEIR INSOLENCE!

  7. #682
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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Yeah mutants have embraced the ideology that their the "next step" in human evolution and tbh they never really lost that. It's a sentiment they shared during Morrison's run. The difference being they've never pursued the ideology so aggressively before they've always tried to "make nice" with their oppressors and more worried about rocking the boat.

    They're done with that. After so many genocides they're finally putting their foot down. And that's what's really getting the humans upset. In less than a year mutants went from an endangered species of a couple thousand scattered around the world to creating their own nation and becoming a major superpower in not only earth but on the Galactic stage as well.

    No matter how you look at it that's pretty terrifying. And they don't plan on slowing down either.
    But they are.... Like literally are the next step in human evolution. The same way homo sapiens replaced homo Rhodesian and the neanderthals by out living them same way homo superior would outlive homo sapiens, but that can't happen and humans kill them off all the time because they can't stand the fact that they are not the end all be all of the species.
    This is a fictional universe yes the mutants have metaphoric allegories in the real world in terms of experience but in nature they are the next step.in human evolution in the comics. it's that simple.

  8. #683

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    Quote Originally Posted by loke13 View Post
    Yeah mutants have embraced the ideology that their the "next step" in human evolution and tbh they never really lost that. It's a sentiment they shared during Morrison's run. The difference being they've never pursued the ideology so aggressively before they've always tried to "make nice" with their oppressors and more worried about rocking the boat.

    They're done with that. After so many genocides they're finally putting their foot down. And that's what's really getting the humans upset. In less than a year mutants went from an endangered species of a couple thousand scattered around the world to creating their own nation and becoming a major superpower in not only earth but on the Galactic stage as well.

    No matter how you look at it that's pretty terrifying. And they don't plan on slowing down either.
    HOWEVER, "They will always hate us"

    I dont think people think about the severity of the consequences that will come with failing. They simply cannot stop, slow down or waiver anymore. Moira and destiny are going to step in i believe and change up the dynamics but this era to me is about survival and lets not forget while mutants have turned away from The original dream..they're still fighting for all life against the inevitable phalanx end.

    I think it'd be more depressing if the mutants kept losing.

  9. #684
    Astonishing Member Frobisher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinderel View Post
    Humanity on real earth:
    The kids we raised have stepped up and are ready to let us retire.

    LETS GO ON A CRUISE AND MOVE TO BOCA!

    Humanity in the 616:
    The kids we raised have stepped up and are ready to let us retire.

    KILL THEM FOR THEIR INSOLENCE!
    Complain about them eating avocado toast while hoarding all of the property and wealth young people will never have the chance to earn, more like.

  10. #685
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frobisher View Post
    Complain about them eating avocado toast while hoarding all of the property and wealth young people will never have the chance to earn, more like.
    Lol! True. Also, 'Let's spend all of our retirement money and fill the planet with plastic and radiation while dismantling all the programs and systems that let US retire comfortably!'

    Still better than the 616 where the previous generation doesnt just disdain and belittle and devalue their kids, but actively tries to murder them at every given opportunity for the crime of...being what comes next and embracing it...

  11. #686
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by king of hybrids View Post
    Dare I say but I would love if this actually marked Marvel officially departing from ‘the world outside your window’ that has screwed over so many promising ideas (X or otherwise)

    It’s still a restriction even on Hickman, and no franchise would suffer from being able to expand on their ideas

    And because Marvel NYC can finally become the cyberpunk/70’s noir dystopian hellhole it was always meant to be
    I can see your point. I mean, it stopped resembling the world outside our window starting with FF #1. Where’s the giant monsters and Monster Island? The Marvel Universe has only gotten much crazier since then.

  12. #687
    Welcome Back Spidey Kurolegacy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Devaishwarya View Post
    @Loke13
    And good for them. It's about damn time.
    The push back from the insecure is inevitable but they can be dealt with accordingly.
    So in all of the patting mutants on the back, people seem to be ignoring the fact that they’re doing this basically as unwitting puppets on Moira’s strings in what is a foundation built on lies. Hell, for things being so great on the surface, they still don’t allow precogs around because Moira doesn’t want the truth of their new society to get out. That will end up costing them greatly in the end.

  13. #688
    Mighty Member Brian B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dirtynun View Post
    But they are.... Like literally are the next step in human evolutionary n. The same way homo sapiens replaced homo Rhodesian and the neanderthals by out living them same way homo superior would outlive homo sapiens, but that can't happen and humans kill them off all the time because they can't stand the fact that they are not the end all be all of the species.
    This is a fictional universe yes the mutants have metaphoric allegories in the real world in terms of experience but in nature they are the next step.in human evolution in the comics. it's that simple.
    Are they, though? Moira VI, if I’m remembering the version number correctly, witnessed and heard quite a bit out of homo novissima that mutants were just what the label says — mutants, random mutations in the human genome. It turned out in that future that homo novissima was the future of man’s evolution. That it apparently was self-induced and mechanical, not natural, doesn’t make that big a difference. It’s just a species choosing for itself to evolve instead of waiting on nature so much. It’s still evolution. Natural selection would still decide whether the change is permanent, if it really is the next step in human evolution.

    The very idea that “homo superior” represents the next stage in human evolution is really just a hypothesis and an ideological belief in the Marvel Universe. Again, In real life, and the Marvel Universe up to homo novissima, natural selection determines whether or not a mutation sticks around. Homo superior might not be anything but an evolutionary dead end, randomness.

    Just because Xavier and Magneto, and Quentin, says they are the next evolution in man doesn’t necessarily mean it is a fact, even in the Marvel Universe.
    Last edited by Brian B; 06-19-2021 at 11:15 AM.

  14. #689
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    So in all of the patting mutants on the back, people seem to be ignoring the fact that they’re doing this basically as unwitting puppets on Moira’s strings in what is a foundation built on lies. Hell, for things being so great on the surface, they still don’t allow precogs around because Moira doesn’t want the truth of their new society to get out. That will end up costing them greatly in the end.
    I dont think anyone has forgotten that. Nor has anyone forgotten that most of what's been done to improve mutant lives has been done by people not in on the Moira X conspiracy. People are patting mutants on the back because 99.9999999% of the mutant populace are people who have been shown just...working together in ways they never have before, ways that lead to progress for all mutantkind because its RIGHT, and its NEW, and they arent afraid anymore, and its glorious. It's showing us mutants enjoying a life that's mostly free from the constant struggle to survive against violent bigots and indifferent 'allies' on top of the usual comic book villainy and disasters. That's something I think ANY oppressed group would love, which is why people seem to be embracing it, despite knowing it'll come to an end.

    Sure, it's all going to come crashing down around them thanks to the secrets Xavier is keeping, because that's how X comics always work. And sure, people will feel bad for not noticing, in all the happiness and security, that they were being lied to by their leaders. That's all inevitable.

    But I see so many people just ENJOYING this pro-mutant world being showcased because for once, they have hope, and that makes the naysayers who keep crapping on everyone's fun seem more malicious.
    Last edited by zinderel; 06-19-2021 at 11:34 AM.

  15. #690
    Mighty Member zinderel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian B View Post
    Are they, though? Moira VI, if I’m remembering the version number correctly, witnessed and heard quite a bit out of homo novissima that mutants were just what the label says — mutants, random mutations in the human genome. It turned out in that future that homo novissima was the future of man’s evolution. That it apparently was self-induced and mechanical, not natural, doesn’t make that big a difference. It’s just a species choosing for itself to evolve instead of waiting on nature so much. It’s still evolution. Natural selection would still decide whether the change is permanent, if it really is the next step in human evolution.

    The very idea that “homo superior” represents the next stage in human evolution is really just a hypothesis and an ideological belief in the Marvel Universe. Again, In real life, and the Marvel Universe up to homo novissima, natural selection determines whether or not a mutation sticks around. Homo superior might not be anything but an evolutionary dead end, randomness.

    Just because Xavier and Magneto, and Quentin, says they are the next evolution in man doesn’t necessarily mean it is a fact, even in the Marvel Universe.
    The only people I can think of who have canonically said mutants aren't the next evolutionary step for mankind are avowed bigots. The guy you cite is a post-human from a culture that finally succeeded in subverting nature's plans for mankind, rewrote evolution and did it all by artificially sacrificing the last vestiges of their souls in the process. Rasputin even said, 'Humanity lost their souls long ago', which was seen by some as evidence of 'reverse racism', but was proven true by the time of Life 6.

    And in the end, all humanity subverting evolution did for themselves was...cause the death of literally all of humanity. 616 Humanity's uncontrollable, inescapeable hubris and racism led to its downfall and extinction at the hands of the Phalanx, which Humanity had come to believe would be their transcendence. Instead, as a race, they were pruned from existence, their uniquenesses catalogued, and - had that reality continued - Humanity would be a universal footnote in a galactic computer, and have no further impact.

    Hooray for them, I guess...?

    Anyway, I wouldn't say that Life 6 Zookeeper/Librarian guy was a reliable source for ANYTHING when it comes to human/mutant relations or evolutionary science other than the anti-mutant, pro-machine/human hybridization narrative he and post-humanity/Homo Novissima embraced and made into a child-mutilating death cult/religion...
    Last edited by zinderel; 06-19-2021 at 11:37 AM.

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