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  1. #31
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post
    The best thing to happen is for that whole situation to go away. Daken has been shown to manipulate peoples feelings including sexual attraction through pheromones. He's no different than Starfox, so his actions could be easily explained away.

    Johnny is historically attracted to and pursuing women. I would say his actions towards going after the girlfriend of the month are a direct result of abandonment issues brought on by first Crystal, and then Frankie. It probably doesn't help that his mother was killed and his father was jailed for it when he was at a young age.
    How Dakens pheromones work has been further explained and they can't create something out of nothing. He acts on feeling that are already there and only increases or decreases the intensity. That's explains why with Ben the increased feelings were of anger. So if he did use his powers on Johnny, it was only acting on attraction that was already there.

    Pursuing women does not negate attraction towards men. Bisexuality and pansexuality exists. Its not a one or the other situation.
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  2. #32
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    As much as I wish it would happen, I don't think the writers will ever make Johnny bi. I'm just so bored of his endless series of failed relationships with women. Dorrie dumps him. Crystal dumps him. Frankie abandons him. Lyja deceives him. Darla dumps him. And I'll add that he never cheated on any of them. No wonder he just wants to get laid now. I just wish the writers would give the character a story arc that doesn't involve yet another toxic romance that we all know is going to fail.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmore View Post
    As much as I wish it would happen, I don't think the writers will ever make Johnny bi. I'm just so bored of his endless series of failed relationships with women. Dorrie dumps him. Crystal dumps him. Frankie abandons him. Lyja deceives him. Darla dumps him. And I'll add that he never cheated on any of them. No wonder he just wants to get laid now. I just wish the writers would give the character a story arc that doesn't involve yet another toxic romance that we all know is going to fail.
    Completely agree.
    Last edited by Chris0013; 06-17-2021 at 05:08 PM.

  4. #34
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmore View Post
    As much as I wish it would happen, I don't think the writers will ever make Johnny bi. I'm just so bored of his endless series of failed relationships with women. Dorrie dumps him. Crystal dumps him. Frankie abandons him. Lyja deceives him. Darla dumps him. And I'll add that he never cheated on any of them. No wonder he just wants to get laid now. I just wish the writers would give the character a story arc that doesn't involve yet another toxic romance that we all know is going to fail.
    Didn't he just cheat on Sky with Zora?

  5. #35
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post

    Johnny is historically attracted to and pursuing women. I would say his actions towards going after the girlfriend of the month are a direct result of abandonment issues brought on by first Crystal, and then Frankie. It probably doesn't help that his mother was killed and his father was jailed for it when he was at a young age.
    I think he is more complicated, at least a little and I agree with what you're saying. He lost his mother and gained a surrogate parent, but the wound was deeper. Although the FF were his replacement/new family, his very first very real love (Dorrie is important, but is not the first real love), Crystal, was cruelly taken away ala Romeo and Juliet in a way.

    Nova was also an intense and real love, but was cruelly taken away by her own love for being something greater.

    Both of those are probably the most intense loves, that were lost.

    The alien woman in the first Secret Wars, Xzagi or however, was Johnny moving towards a "don't really get involved, the universe is my little black book". He never really loved her in the same way and this represented a slight callousness but also call back to early FF days, where he had slight involvements with Pearla from the Microverse and Valeria from "the 5th Dimension", the latter who reappeared years later around # 158 or so.
    In a sense they filled in the idea of Johnny 'mostly' being involved with 'othered' type women, exotic, other races or species. Lyja, Medusa, Namorita, Sky and now Zora.

    I imagine that there are some I'm forgetting or didn't see/notice.
    I have not seen this most current issue yet, but I'm thinking the story is more about Johnny and some denouement waiting to happen.
    It may be that both Zora and Sky were not meant to be permanent but now I'm wondering.
    This may not be the story and character development we want, but there is something more clever or going on than expected. My take at least.

    I've thought for years, that the best role/look for Johnny is getting back with Crystal.
    But now that the FF and possibly the Inhumans will be credibly brought to the screen, I'd like to think an FF movie is the best way to bring back the Inhumans and what happens in the MCU usually will happen in the comic story.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    I think he is more complicated, at least a little and I agree with what you're saying. He lost his mother and gained a surrogate parent, but the wound was deeper. Although the FF were his replacement/new family, his very first very real love (Dorrie is important, but is not the first real love), Crystal, was cruelly taken away ala Romeo and Juliet in a way.

    Nova was also an intense and real love, but was cruelly taken away by her own love for being something greater.

    Both of those are probably the most intense loves, that were lost.

    The alien woman in the first Secret Wars, Xzagi or however, was Johnny moving towards a "don't really get involved, the universe is my little black book". He never really loved her in the same way and this represented a slight callousness but also call back to early FF days, where he had slight involvements with Pearla from the Microverse and Valeria from "the 5th Dimension", the latter who reappeared years later around # 158 or so.
    In a sense they filled in the idea of Johnny 'mostly' being involved with 'othered' type women, exotic, other races or species. Lyja, Medusa, Namorita, Sky and now Zora.

    I imagine that there are some I'm forgetting or didn't see/notice.
    I have not seen this most current issue yet, but I'm thinking the story is more about Johnny and some denouement waiting to happen.
    It may be that both Zora and Sky were not meant to be permanent but now I'm wondering.
    This may not be the story and character development we want, but there is something more clever or going on than expected. My take at least.

    I've thought for years, that the best role/look for Johnny is getting back with Crystal.
    But now that the FF and possibly the Inhumans will be credibly brought to the screen, I'd like to think an FF movie is the best way to bring back the Inhumans and what happens in the MCU usually will happen in the comic story.
    I do wish Johnny and Crystal would get back together too. she had a brief appearance in this week's Fantastic Four. She's another character that had some bad writing inflicted on her by Steve Englehart. He had her cheating on Pietro with some random real estate salesman IIRC. On top of that Englehart would later have Quicksilver got all psycho in his Fantastic Four run. In fact, CBR columnist Brian Cronin wrote some columns about how Englehart would have him get all nuts and then other writers would ignore it only to have Englehart revert to the crazy, evil Quicksilver I think it was in the book Marvel: The Untold Story that Englehart was not very popular among the other writers at Marvel at that time.

  7. #37

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    Would a Johnny/Crystal reconciliation work? Yes, heavy hypothetical, but has any relationship in comics broken up for a major length of time and then come back together for more than a quick fling? It's clear Johnny's acting immaturely with his personal life right now. Outside of that, though, is he still acting like a kid? His non-love life connections have been more adult. And yes, his love life stuff is huge. But depending on what's going on with Crystal and the Inhumans, a reconnection might be a good idea. I think an FF/Inhumans story or plot might be a good idea to take some focus of Doom and the usual. It would also show more of the FF's extended contacts.

    I'd be interested in Johnny/Crystal.
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  8. #38
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    In Johnny's "story" Crystal is the one that got away. Frankie was very similar, red hair, etc.

    Most of the others did not have this exact theme about them.

    It would be a nice retcon. I know once, years ago, some even theorized that Luna was really his child, not QS, which would make an ultimate get-back-together have more gravity.

    Time lines being what they are, it is possible to condense things, but I'd rather not.

    I think it is more possible that a MCU Johnny could have a better and permanent relationship with a MCU Crystal. Number one, not likely Pietro will steal her away and marry her.
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  9. #39
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    I don't want Johnny tied down tbh.

    Monogamy isn't for everyone and I don't think it's for him with the way he self-sabotages some of his relationships. We have two married couples in the FF, show that there is more than one way to have a relationship. Show that long-term relationships/marriage isn't the only choice.

    Getting back with Crystal would be another case of trying to chase that initial spark Lee/Kirby's run had, and there has been more than enough of that. It would be boring and make no sense based on their history after the break-up. That relationship worked because of how young they were and that they were each others first love. Doing it again would only be for the benefit of nostalgia and I doubt it would be as good as the first time.
    Last edited by Crimz; 06-18-2021 at 05:45 AM.
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  10. #40
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post
    Johnny is historically attracted to and pursuing women. I would say his actions towards going after the girlfriend of the month are a direct result of abandonment issues brought on by first Crystal, and then Frankie. It probably doesn't help that his mother was killed and his father was jailed for it when he was at a young age.
    Wait a minute... so the stuff in the Flash regarding Barry's father Henry Allen is a rip-off of Franklin Storm's story?
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  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    How Dakens pheromones work has been further explained and they can't create something out of nothing. He acts on feeling that are already there and only increases or decreases the intensity. That's explains why with Ben the increased feelings were of anger. So if he did use his powers on Johnny, it was only acting on attraction that was already there.

    Pursuing women does not negate attraction towards men. Bisexuality and pansexuality exists. Its not a one or the other situation.
    There's no need for a gender or sexual preferences lecture. We're talking about a fictional character that's been around for 60 years. In those 60 years there was never a hint of bisexuality until one mostly forgettable storyline in the last decade that you want to hang your hat on.

    I have no problem creating and developing multicultural, multi ethnic and multi gendered characters and all their varying relationships. What I have a problem with is shippers who see same-sex characters having a close relationship or interaction and immediately put them in a wish list of relationships.

    You can look no further than a recent panel from the preview to the new X-Men book, where Rogue catches Polaris to see my point. Both Rogue and Polaris have always been treated as heterosexual, but a couple posts in the thread on the X-Men board view that one image as an indication that the two were going to get it on.

    And truthfully, it really is incumbent on the editors to ensure some sort of character integrity as these books are published.
    Last edited by BAS; 06-18-2021 at 08:44 AM.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post
    There's no need for a gender or sexual preferences lecture. We're talking about a fictional character that's been around for 60 years. In those 60 years there was never a hint of bisexuality until one mostly forgettable storyline in the last decade that you want to hang your hat on.

    I have no problem creating and developing multicultural, multi ethnic and multi gendered characters and all their varying relationships. What I have a problem with is shippers who see same-sex characters having a close relationship or interaction and immediately put them in a wish list of relationships.

    You can look no further than a recent panel from the preview to the new X-Men book, where Rogue catches Polaris to see my point. Both Rogue and Polaris have always been treated as heterosexual, but a couple posts in the thread on the X-Men board view that one image as an indication that the two were going to get it on.

    And truthfully, it really is incumbent on the editors to ensure some sort of character integrity as these books are published.
    Never put anything past them. Look what they did with Iceman. 60 years of chasing skirts and all of a sudden....

  13. #43
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BAS View Post
    There's no need for a gender or sexual preferences lecture. We're talking about a fictional character that's been around for 60 years. In those 60 years there was never a hint of bisexuality until one mostly forgettable storyline in the last decade that you want to hang your hat on.

    I have no problem creating and developing multicultural, multi ethnic and multi gendered characters and all their varying relationships. What I have a problem with is shippers who see same-sex characters having a close relationship or interaction and immediately put them in a wish list of relationships.

    You can look no further than a recent panel from the preview to the new X-Men book, where Rogue catches Polaris to see my point. Both Rogue and Polaris have always been treated as heterosexual, but a couple posts in the thread on the X-Men board view that one image as an indication that the two were going to get it on.

    And truthfully, it really is incumbent on the editors to ensure some sort of character integrity as these books are published.
    I'm with you on this.

    IMO the whole issue of Johnny being bi is a non-starter with me. The Daken story was done by Marjorie Liu and she doesn't exactly have a lot of pull at Marvel. She can tweet what she wants but it's not been considered as canon. She tweeted about creating sexual tension but nothing was ever shown. And Daken's powers make it suspect anyway.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digifiend View Post
    Wait a minute... so the stuff in the Flash regarding Barry's father Henry Allen is a rip-off of Franklin Storm's story?
    When was that revealed? Because the story about Franklin Storm was in Fantastic Four #32 and published November of 1964

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    Didn't he just cheat on Sky with Zora?
    Yes he did, and that was the point I was making. He was faithful to these women in the past and they still left him. He may just not care any more. I know I don't. I just want him doing something else other than just having these endless romance issues.

    Johnny's has always been my favorite FF member, and I've always felt he's gotten a bad rap when he was constantly referred to as a slacker. He was working on cars when he was 16, joined the fire department, played in a band, was CFO of the FF, upgraded the FF vehicles and kept them running. Is he still CFO of the FF? Does he still race and work on cars? I'd love to see him go back to school and finish whatever degree he was working on. Even Ben told Johnny once how great his college grades were. I don't care if Johnny ever has another girlfriend, just stop making him stupid.

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