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  1. #61
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airtrap View Post
    I was just re-reading parts 1 and 2 for clues and three setups caught my eye:

    1. The big fight in part 1 in which Johnny chooses to help another woman, feels like a setup for a similar scene in part 3 in which he chooses to help Sky and therefore showing his dedication. Next scene they reconcile and live happily ever after ....

    2. Showing us that Alicia has a perfect sculpture of Doom then demonstrating her power on Lyja, then telling us in part 2 that she is staying behind in New York. Feels like Alicia is going to use her power on Doom. Maybe she's the reason he's in space now, she forced him to abdicate the thrown for a while or something. Would also be a big plot for a Doom returns story next year.

    3. Zora saying "I didn't know he planned this". Implying it's a planned trap, but how would she know? Maybe a Doom manipulated Zora (and Johnny) twist is coming. Basically taking any blame from Zora and Johnny in process, would tie in with the Johnny/Sky story and keep Zora as Latverian ruler possibly for the duration of Doom in space story

    Maybe i missed something but i think that's the basic structure for the story. Still not sure what Namor and Black Panther bring to the story, honestly. Just wedding guest for a few gags and bodies for the big fight, i suppose.

    Wow....I hadn't really thought about all those statues Alicia made of Doom. Then there was that strange exchange with Ben and Doom when Ben tells him Alicia stayed home and Doom replies "Good" Are people aware of when the Puppet Master's clay takes them over?

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member Lucyinthesky's Avatar
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    One comment I liked about this issue was the theory that Doom choose on purpose Reedīs and Sue anniversary date " to save Reed from Sue" because he probably forgot it until Sue mentioned it to Victor, like I could actually see him do this as part of his peace agreetment with Reed.

    I donīt know why but I get the sense Victor and Reed sometimes wished they were friends because there are not other people that can see and understand the world and the universe in the way they do but at the same time they canīt stand each other so itīs truly frustrating for them they are not able to stay in good terms even for one issue.
    what is man that you are mindful of him,
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  3. #63
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Still haven't seen this yet, waiting to be picked up.

    but the idea that Alicia could be controlling Doom, even, is clever.

    Everybody seems to be out of character, could she be doing stuff to Sky, Johnny too?
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  4. #64
    Invincible Member Digifiend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    When was that revealed? Because the story about Franklin Storm was in Fantastic Four #32 and published November of 1964
    2011 I think, the Flash story was a New 52 origin retcon if I'm not mistaken. Which has already been adapted twice in the Justice League movie and CW Flash TV series, meaning that if they use Franklin Storm's backstory in the MCU, people will erroneously think Marvel ripped off DC, instead of the other way around.
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  5. #65
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    I thought Sue and Johnny's mom died in a car accident and the dad (a renowned surgeon) couldn't save her so he spiraled into alcoholism and debt.
    Also, wasn't he sent to prison for falsely or accidentally killing a loan shark?

    The story is very different to Barry Allen's.
    Last edited by Crimz; 06-20-2021 at 06:32 AM.
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  6. #66
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crimz View Post
    I thought Sue and Johnny's mom died in a car accident and the dad (a renowned surgeon) couldn't save her so he spiraled into alcoholism and debt.
    Also, wasn't he sent to prison for falsely or accidentally killing a loan shark?

    The story is very different to Barry Allen's.
    It is similar to Flash' origins in the CW however.
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  7. #67
    Extraordinary Member Crimz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oberon View Post
    It is similar to Flash' origins in the CW however.
    How is that similar?

    CW Flash has Barry's father framed by Reverse Flash for his the death of his mother. It's practically the same as the comics it's based on.

    Johnny and Sue's mom died in an accident and their father spiraled into depression and gambling, leading to him accidentally killing a loan shark.

    The literal only similarities are dead mom and dad in prison. That's it.
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  8. #68
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    I think Doom didn't care that Johnny slept with Zora as he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. He's not looking to produce an heir or for anyone to rule by his side. He probably was just looking for a way to cement his control over Symkaria.

    Like a rew others have mentioned, it's really getting tiresome with the de-maturization of Johnny. He can't be taken seriously at this point and is pretty much a cliche'. Even Zora pretty much calls him a dumb blonde.

    I miss the development Johnny got under Hickman. I just don't know why writers feel the need to continuously pidgeon-hole Johnny as a frak-up.

  9. #69
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I think Doom didn't care that Johnny slept with Zora as he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. He's not looking to produce an heir or for anyone to rule by his side. He probably was just looking for a way to cement his control over Symkaria.

    Like a rew others have mentioned, it's really getting tiresome with the de-maturization of Johnny. He can't be taken seriously at this point and is pretty much a cliche'. Even Zora pretty much calls him a dumb blonde.

    I miss the development Johnny got under Hickman. I just don't know why writers feel the need to continuously pidgeon-hole Johnny as a frak-up.
    I couldn't agree more. It's a regression in maturity that IMO does not take into account the horrific events of when he "died" several times when he was held captive in the Negative Zone. Teaming up with the Light Brigade he was able to take away Annihilus's Control Road and escape ....without any help from the FF. But even going back to the Roy Thomas era IMO Johnny grew up when he lost Crystal to Pietro. I still think Crys and Johnny belong together. They both have gone through a lot and have grown up. They were probably teen agers when they first met.

    As for Zora, I think you are on the right track. I don't think it was going to be a marriage in the sense of it having a sexual element. I think we can mostly take Doom at his word that is a public transfer of the title of Queen so that there would be no one questioning her role while Doom goes away. But I think she still has a price to pay for the public humiliation.

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member Oberon's Avatar
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    Super Skrull framed elder Storm. I meant the various elements, jail time, growing up without parents.

    Sure, not an exact.
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  11. #71
    The Professional Marvell2100's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Maiden View Post
    I couldn't agree more. It's a regression in maturity that IMO does not take into account the horrific events of when he "died" several times when he was held captive in the Negative Zone. Teaming up with the Light Brigade he was able to take away Annihilus's Control Road and escape ....without any help from the FF. But even going back to the Roy Thomas IMO Johnny grew up when he lost Crystal to Pietro. I still think Crys and Johnny belong together. They both have gone through a lot and have grown up. They were probably teen agers when they first met.

    As for Zora, I think you are on the right track. I don't think it was going to be a marriage in the sense of it having a sexual element. I think we can mostly take Doom at his word that is a public transfer of the title of Queen so that there would be no one questioning her role while Doom goes away. But I think she still has a price to pay for the public humiliation.
    Of all the Marvel original characters, Johnny probably has been the most stagnant with the exception of Hickman's run. Writers tend to think that immaturity is his default character setting.

    Next issue says that there will be a major change for one of the FF. I'm going to guess that since Johnny and Zora have slept together, somehow thru some ancient, obscure law, that Johnny becomes part ruler of Symkaria(maybe even Latveria?).

  12. #72
    Incredible Member Thundershot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    Of all the Marvel original characters, Johnny probably has been the most stagnant with the exception of Hickman's run. Writers tend to think that immaturity is his default character setting.

    Next issue says that there will be a major change for one of the FF. I'm going to guess that since Johnny and Zora have slept together, somehow thru some ancient, obscure law, that Johnny becomes part ruler of Symkaria(maybe even Latveria?).
    Or Zora’s pregnant….

  13. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marvell2100 View Post
    I think Doom didn't care that Johnny slept with Zora as he doesn't have romantic feelings for her. He's not looking to produce an heir or for anyone to rule by his side. He probably was just looking for a way to cement his control over Symkaria.

    Like a rew others have mentioned, it's really getting tiresome with the de-maturization of Johnny. He can't be taken seriously at this point and is pretty much a cliche'. Even Zora pretty much calls him a dumb blonde.

    I miss the development Johnny got under Hickman. I just don't know why writers feel the need to continuously pidgeon-hole Johnny as a frak-up.
    Zora is a very perceptive woman.

    As for Doom, I can understand his being angered that HIS woman was touched by another. It's far more of a possessive ego than a cheating lover for him.
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  14. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thundershot View Post
    Or Zora’s pregnant….
    I can't think of a good reason to do this. I would however bet that Slott's either going with it, or is strongly considering it.
    Why yes, I do enjoy hearing myself talk. it is very kind of you to notice>

  15. #75
    Latverian ambassador Iron Maiden's Avatar
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    It wouldn't surprise me to see Slott doing that too. Didn't Johnny have some affair a while back where the woman was pregnant but she disappeared or something?

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