Theory on What is Going on in Heroes Reborn World

[jackolover]

My theory is that this is a dream world, made by Coulson, who thinks the superheroes are too much power, with no control. I think Coulson’s ideal world is no super heroes except the Squadron Supreme. But like all wishes that come true, there is always a loophole in any ideal concept. Coulson’s dream had a flaw, in that some characters knew it wasn’t real, and, a simple thing like restoring Captain America unravels the whole stitching. I think the world is something like what Franklin Richards dreamed up in the original Heroes Reborn, but designed by Coulson.

What are your theories?

[Jabare]

Coulson is certainly involved, but Mephisto is the juice that makes it work.

Aaron's laid out so many breadcrumbs about the Coulson and Mephisto and how they've built this Squadron Supreme

[jackolover]

There is something fishy about Coulson and the Squadron, and Mephisto’s involvement. I just can’t get a handle on the mechanism by which it turned into Heroes Reborn. I can understand spells, but this is a completely different order of magnitude here. I don’t even know if Doctor Strange is capable of this sort of wholesale reality change. Maybe Wanda if she went crazy again.

I remember from Peter Parker’s complete altering of reality due to Mephisto, how all history about Parker was altered, and nobody knew anything about his marriage, and his being Spider-Man. The thing is, this was restricted to just one person. Is Coulson’s world altered much more than Parkers world was? To my mind, it is, but if Mephisto is doing this, can he completely upend everybody’s history instead of just Coulson’s?

[Huntsman Spider]

There is something fishy about Coulson and the Squadron, and Mephisto’s involvement. I just can’t get a handle on the mechanism by which it turned into Heroes Reborn. I can understand spells, but this is a completely different order of magnitude here. I don’t even know if Doctor Strange is capable of this sort of wholesale reality change. Maybe Wanda if she went crazy again.

I remember from Peter Parker’s complete altering of reality due to Mephisto, how all history about Parker was altered, and nobody knew anything about his marriage, and his being Spider-Man. The thing is, this was restricted to just one person. Is Coulson’s world altered much more than Parkers world was? To my mind, it is, but if Mephisto is doing this, can he completely upend everybody’s history instead of just Coulson’s?

I think it's a version of the Butterfly Effect, insofar as all these minor changes to ensure the Avengers never formed, Peter Parker never became Spider-Man, and the Fantastic Four never became the Fantastic Four have cascaded into the creation of a radically different world over time from how we recognize the Marvel Universe.

[protege]

Coulson is certainly involved, but Mephisto is the juice that makes it work.

Aaron's laid out so many breadcrumbs about the Coulson and Mephisto and how they've built this Squadron Supreme

How did I miss this one? Of course t'challa is on top of it- but do the rest of the avengers know? How do they feel about it? Especially cap, who used to have coulson as his number one fan. That's what I'm waiting to see- the avengers confronting coulson once this is all over.

[Huntsman Spider]

How did I miss this one? Of course t'challa is on top of it- but do the rest of the avengers know? How do they feel about it? Especially cap, who used to have coulson as his number one fan. That's what I'm waiting to see- the avengers confronting coulson once this is all over.

Maybe we'll finally see that in Heroes Return, or at the end of Heroes Reborn.

[Jabare]

How did I miss this one? Of course t'challa is on top of it- but do the rest of the avengers know? How do they feel about it? Especially cap, who used to have coulson as his number one fan. That's what I'm waiting to see- the avengers confronting coulson once this is all over.

I don't think the rest of the Avengers know, but T'Challa might have clued Steve or Tony in. We see Coulson sipping wine with Mephisto in Avengers #18 or #21 too. I feel this is all tied into Mephisto's grand plan from Doctor Strange: Damnation. Johnny Blaze was King of Hell for a while and Mephisto just recently retook the throne, then bam reality changed.


Like Hunstman Spider said. By Captain America never being rescued from his ice prison and maybe a few other minor tweaks Mephisto and Coulson have drastically altered the course of Marvel History and inserted this Squadron Supreme team in to fill that void.


There's another moment during the Avengers run where see Coulson actively modifying the Squadron Supreme's personalities so you've got to wonder how much free will do they have. Are they just puppets or unwitting servants?

These characters are likely not the real Squadron Supreme but Mephisto's Simulacrums instead.

[jackolover]

spoilers:

Mephisto

end of spoilers is the blacked out section of the Heroes Reborn poster put out for this event, so that confirms who is the guy pulling the strings in this. I’m just surprised Coulson isn’t represented in that poster though.

The poster does show all the characters surrounding him, like they are in heavenly places on top of little clouds. It reminds of one of those religious icons in Catholic or Orthodox churches. Is there some significants in that?

[jackolover]

I don't think the rest of the Avengers know, but T'Challa might have clued Steve or Tony in. We see Coulson sipping wine with Mephisto in Avengers #18 or #21 too. I feel this is all tied into Mephisto's grand plan from Doctor Strange: Damnation. Johnny Blaze was King of Hell for a while and Mephisto just recently retook the throne, then bam reality changed.


Like Hunstman Spider said. By Captain America never being rescued from his ice prison and maybe a few other minor tweaks Mephisto and Coulson have drastically altered the course of Marvel History and inserted this Squadron Supreme team in to fill that void.


There's another moment during the Avengers run where see Coulson actively modifying the Squadron Supreme's personalities so you've got to wonder how much free will do they have. Are they just puppets or unwitting servants?

These characters are likely not the real Squadron Supreme but Mephisto's Simulacrums instead.

What was so important in Doctor Strange : Damnation to do with Mephisto and Heroes Reborn?

[jackolover]

Is it possible that this is a case of Mephisto unintentionally subjecting everyone to his psychosis, a deeply entrenched self-actualizing delusion resulting in a Mandela Effect shared by others? The members of the Squadron Supreme don't have souls because they don't really exist. This entire reality represents a false memory of sorts. Or worse, a dream of a false memory. If that's the case, good luck getting Mephistopheles back to his "right" mind...whatever that entails.

I am interested in this opinion on the makeup of Mephisto. This would be a huge subjugation of a whole reality, if Mephisto is doing this on Earth. This is a takeover of the 616, instead of a little Ghost Rider or Peter Parker wish fulfilment. It would definitely be worth a whole Event, if this was the case. Mephisto Goes Wild! Who is going to stop something like that? Who was on the cover of issue #1? Was that bearded guy Tony Stark or Doctor Strange?

[Jabare]

What was so important in Doctor Strange : Damnation to do with Mephisto and Heroes Reborn?

I'm saying that's when I believe the plot threads for this event were first seeded. When Mephisto made hell on earth in Las Vegas and converted several denizens including the Avengers into his minions. Then he was dethroned and imprisoned, but secretly manipulating events behind the scenes leading to this Coulson and the Squadron Supreme.

Aaron has shown that he's been manipulating Namor. He's potentially had a hand in forming the Defenders of the Deep and the Winter Guard. He caused Khonshu and Moon Knight to go on a magic hunting spree to build up enough power to counter Mephisto. Aaron hasn't been subtle about this he's been hitting us over the head with the fact that Mephisto is up to something for the last few years.

I'm not even sure if this is the genuine Agent Coulson, because he's so different. If he is Mephisto brought him back to life and altered him somehow

[Huntsman Spider]

I'm saying that's when I believe the plot threads for this event were first seeded. When Mephisto made hell on earth in Las Vegas and converted several denizens including the Avengers into his minions. Then he was dethroned and imprisoned, but secretly manipulating events behind the scenes leading to this Coulson and the Squadron Supreme.

Aaron has shown that he's been manipulating Namor. He's potentially had a hand in forming the Defenders of the Deep and the Winter Guard. He caused Khonshu and Moon Knight to go on a magic hunting spree to build up enough power to counter Mephisto. Aaron hasn't been subtle about this he's been hitting us over the head with the fact that Mephisto is up to something for the last few years.

I'm not even sure if this is the genuine Agent Coulson, because he's so different. If he is Mephisto brought him back to life and altered him somehow

Hmm, considering what happened to cause his death in the first place, I'm guessing Mephisto may simply be manipulating Coulson's understandable feelings of bitterness and betrayal toward Captain America (and superheroes in general) to make him more willing to do things and cross lines that he previously wouldn't have.

[jackolover]

Is there a prequel to Heroes Reborn #1? I’m just wondering if Avengers #45 was supposed to be the evidence that Mephisto and Coulson do what they did to the Marvel Universe, or if somewhere else we see the transition from the 616 to HR#1? Even in House of M we see the Avengers and X-Men go to Genosha and you see the whiteout in the first issue, and you know you are travelling out of the 616 into the HoM. Where did this happen in HEROES REBORN?

[jackolover]

I'm saying that's when I believe the plot threads for this event were first seeded. When Mephisto made hell on earth in Las Vegas and converted several denizens including the Avengers into his minions. Then he was dethroned and imprisoned, but secretly manipulating events behind the scenes leading to this Coulson and the Squadron Supreme.

Aaron has shown that he's been manipulating Namor. He's potentially had a hand in forming the Defenders of the Deep and the Winter Guard. He caused Khonshu and Moon Knight to go on a magic hunting spree to build up enough power to counter Mephisto. Aaron hasn't been subtle about this he's been hitting us over the head with the fact that Mephisto is up to something for the last few years.

I'm not even sure if this is the genuine Agent Coulson, because he's so different. If he is Mephisto brought him back to life and altered him somehow

Okay. That’s worth keeping in mind that Mephisto on Earth is a dread risk. (I remember when Hela was kicked out of Hel and she lived in Las Vegas too. Two demons on Earth). Of course, Mephisto being a rather insidious fellow, his presence does portend something more sinister for man, because he has a particular liking for the human condition and what it can be driven to do. We recently got a fortuitously thick trade just on Mephisto’s antics in the books over the years, so maybe there is a clue to what Mephisto has been leading up too?

[Huntsman Spider]

Is there a prequel to Heroes Reborn #1? I’m just wondering if Avengers #45 was supposed to be the evidence that Mephisto and Coulson do what they did to the Marvel Universe, or if somewhere else we see the transition from the 616 to HR#1? Even in House of M we see the Avengers and X-Men go to Genosha and you see the whiteout in the first issue, and you know you are travelling out of the 616 into the HoM. Where did this happen in HEROES REBORN?

We'll find out at some point in Heroes Reborn, I think.