Batman: Reptilian #1 Preview

[hairys]

Bottom line, it's an out-of-continuity story. Ennis actually *has* written an in-continuity Batman before in Legends of the Dark Knight a long time ago. In that story, he wrote a perfect Alfred (no fumigation jokes) and Bruce in character. So, he can do it, but I don't personally put the burden on him to do it on a Black Label book. There, Ennis is going to write Ennis Batman, for better or worse. I like it personally but I understand those who don't.

[thwhtGuardian]

Bottom line, it's an out-of-continuity story. Ennis actually *has* written an in-continuity Batman before in Legends of the Dark Knight a long time ago. In that story, he wrote a perfect Alfred (no fumigation jokes) and Bruce in character. So, he can do it, but I don't personally put the burden on him to do it on a Black Label book. There, Ennis is going to write Ennis Batman, for better or worse. I like it personally but I understand those who don't.

As long as its billed as Batman, I expect it to read like Batman. You can take it out of continuity, make it more realistic, set it in the future or make him a cowboy or a pirate or a knight but the character still has to read as Batman...otherwise why even call it Batman?

There have been a lot of good Batman pastiches made(and a lot of bad ones too) so if Ennis wanted to do that he should have done so, but he called it Batman so it should be Batman.

[hairys]

We can agree to disagree, thwhtGuardian. In non-canon books for both DC and Marvel, characters -- not just Batman -- are routinely written out of character. Now that you know that Ennis will continue with that "tradition", you're certainly allowed to not buy this book.

[thwhtGuardian]

We can agree to disagree, thwhtGuardian. In non-canon books for both DC and Marvel, characters -- not just Batman -- are routinely written out of character. Now that you know that Ennis will continue with that "tradition", you're certainly allowed to not buy this book.

Batman really hasn't been written out of character in Elseworld stories...and neither do most DC heroes either that I can remember. Like I said, the settings and circumstances change but in Elseworlds the heroes remain the same at their core and that isn't true here.

Whether he was a Victorian mystery man, a pirate, a knight, a world war two super spy, a frankenstein like monster, an old man well past his prime and even when given a Luke Cage like incarceration back story by Stan Lee he still ultimately felt like Batman. That's the expectation.

But heck, lets throw the expectations away. Why do we care about this character as he was written here? He's a guy who brutalizes people when he doesn't get his way, disparages battered women and show's no empathy for orphans...that's pretty far from a winner in my book. There's literally nothing about him so far of redeeming value, nothing to make you care if he lives or dies.

[SiegePerilous02]

Batman really hasn't been written out of character in Elseworld stories...and neither do most DC heroes either that I can remember. Like I said, the settings and circumstances change but in Elseworlds the heroes remain the same at their core and that isn't true here.

Whether he was a Victorian mystery man, a pirate, a knight, a world war two super spy, a frankenstein like monster, an old man well past his prime and even when given a Luke Cage like incarceration back story by Stan Lee he still ultimately felt like Batman. That's the expectation.

But heck, lets throw the expectations away. Why do we care about this character as he was written here? He's a guy who brutalizes people when he doesn't get his way, disparages battered women and show's no empathy for orphans...that's pretty far from a winner in my book. There's literally nothing about him so far of redeeming value, nothing to make you care if he lives or dies.

It may be a story where nobody is meant to be likeable. Judging by his interviews, Ennis doesn't view Batman as a hero. As it's a stand alone Black Label book where has full creative freedom, and stuff like Frank Miller's Batman exists to set a precedent among other things, it's his prerogative.

It's an interpretation of Batman I don't really care for (along with the entire "real life billionaires suck, we need to be woke and make Batman a villain" takes), but there are a wealth of other options and this is only six issues. I might stick it out for the art, but we'll see

[thwhtGuardian]

It may be a story where nobody is meant to be likeable. Judging by his interviews, Ennis doesn't view Batman as a hero. As it's a stand alone Black Label book where has full creative freedom, and stuff like Frank Miller's Batman exists to set a precedent among other things, it's his prerogative.

It's an interpretation of Batman I don't really care for (along with the entire "real life billionaires suck, we need to be woke and make Batman a villain" takes), but there are a wealth of other options and this is only six issues. I might stick it out for the art, but we'll see

Even Frank Miller's Batman still feels like Batman at its core though, never once while reading any of the DKRs or even All Star Batman did I feel like it wasn't Batman. Was it a definitely a more crazed take? Sure, you'd have to be to make a young boy eat rats, but the values driving him and the way he talked and thought about crime remained the same. Not so here.

[hairys]

Even Frank Miller's Batman still feels like Batman at its core though, never once while reading any of the DKRs or even All Star Batman did I feel like it wasn't Batman. Was it a definitely a more crazed take? Sure, you'd have to be to make a young boy eat rats, but the values driving him and the way he talked and thought about crime remained the same. Not so here.

Wow, I'm really surprised you believe an 82-yr-old character has never been written out of character, even in non-canon universes? In the Batman Beyond comic, Bruce banged Barbara while she was dating Dick and got her pregnant. In the Millerverse, you already mentioned forcing Robin to eat rats, which is worse than anything he did in Reptilian #1. In the Millerverse, Bruce also burned thieves alive while banging Black Canary as they burned. Even in the main canon universe, you do realize that early Golden Age Batman used to kill, right? And he's been written out of character many, many times in continuity, which I'm sure CBR has debated and complained about repeatedly. The way he treated Tim and Stephanie after Tim quit as Robin comes to mind. Remember when Bruce pulled his fiancee's hair (physical assault on a woman) to test to see whether she was a robot? Or when he kidnapped and dissected Frankenstein? Or when Bruce trapped Lord Death Man and shot him into space in exile, a fate worse than death? I'd rather be the boxer than Lord Death Man! The examples could go on and on. Again, Batman's been around for over 8 decades.

I respect your opinion that this comic stinks and is poorly written. I disagree but reasonable people can disagree. But I don't like pretending like Batman has a smooth history of always being written in-character.

[JBatmanFan05]

Even Frank Miller's Batman still feels like Batman at its core though, never once while reading any of the DKRs or even All Star Batman did I feel like it wasn't Batman. Was it a definitely a more crazed take? Sure, you'd have to be to make a young boy eat rats, but the values driving him and the way he talked and thought about crime remained the same. Not so here.

And I definitely think Ennis's Batman here is at least in the Miller range of Batman. You definitely read some things into Batman's comments to Alfred that I don't read into them. I read Ennis's Batman here as caring about victims, angrily caring about them even.

You mentioned "leaving a batarang [note/threat] in the boxer's penthouse"....I actually think that's something a criminal would expect from Batman (Batman's left bat-themed letters/threats since the Golden Age), maybe that's something that wouldn't keep them guessing. Batman going so public (presence of police/media, at very public building) here is definitely more appropriate for "keep them guessing" purposes in deterring other active or potential criminals.

[matt levin]

whoa, wow. I haven't been able to get this yet, though I have hopes for this weekend.... But what a diverse set of reactions!
I fear I may find myself agreeing with ThwhtGuardian, that's been my overall Ennis reaction (there ARE several Ennis titles I very much enjoyed; but as many, or more, that I haven't), but happy to wait and see once I get to read this.