Batman: Reptilian #1 Preview

[hairys]

Yeah, that didn't bother me because it's a Black Label book. When in non-canon books, Batman has often been written out-of-character and with a harder edge. I kind of expected this so was not disappointed.

I completely understand why people would dislike this, though.

[SiegePerilous02]

That whole scene between him and Alfred was just bad, and the actual scene where he confronted the boxer was just as bad as it just didn't read as something Batman would ever do.

I can imagine the boxer scene playing out with many versions of Batman. With how many rich and powerful men we have in real life who get away with that crap, it's pretty cathartic to see Batman just wreck his shit, potential consequences be damned. Who would have thought my favorite recent Batman scene in a comic would come from Garth Ennis?

The dismissive attitude towards the wife seems inconsistent with his attitude in the first scene though. He is enraged at the injustice done to the two prostitutes, but writes off the woman who might only be staying with him out of fear with their vulnerable kids? It IS an elseworld, but that would seem too cold even coming from Miller's Batman.

[HsssH]

Wife has options and would have public support if she decided to divorce.

[FFJamie94]

So I just finished reading it.
I went in due to Liam Sharp's art, which I fell in love with on the later half of those Green Lantern issues. The overall first issue was a pretty good read. It had a great haunting atmosphere, something which Sharp does really well. The writing was okay. I can see the issues People have, Batman is written very ooc at times, but with this Batman being out of continuity, I'm more okay with it.
My biggest issue actually come down with the art, at times it can be a little too dark that it become hard to see. But looking at the next issue pages, they contrast that darkness with a beautiful red light, so it looks like my problem with the book would be corrected.

[thwhtGuardian]

I can imagine the boxer scene playing out with many versions of Batman. With how many rich and powerful men we have in real life who get away with that crap, it's pretty cathartic to see Batman just wreck his shit, potential consequences be damned. Who would have thought my favorite recent Batman scene in a comic would come from Garth Ennis?

The dismissive attitude towards the wife seems inconsistent with his attitude in the first scene though. He is enraged at the injustice done to the two prostitutes, but writes off the woman who might only be staying with him out of fear with their vulnerable kids? It IS an elseworld, but that would seem too cold even coming from Miller's Batman.

The thing with the boxer scene is that you're supposed to feel that the lawyer is slimy for convincing the judge to throw out all of the evidence collected by Batman...but by Batman showing up like he did, goading the boxer and then brutally beating him in public it shows that the lawyer wasn't slimy and the judge's decision wasn't wrong. And that just compounds the way he acts later, because if he's just acting like a violent thug there then the "jokes" with Alfred seem less like "jokes" and more like they are being played straight because someone who thought assaulting a criminal who just got off because a judge threw out vigilante collected evidence in front of dozens of witnesses was a great move then they probably would be unfeeling.

[hairys]

The thing with the boxer scene is that you're supposed to feel that the lawyer is slimy for convincing the judge to throw out all of the evidence collected by Batman...but by Batman showing up like he did, goading the boxer and then brutally beating him in public it shows that the lawyer wasn't slimy and the judge's decision wasn't wrong. And that just compounds the way he acts later, because if he's just acting like a violent thug there then the "jokes" with Alfred seem less like "jokes" and more like they are being played straight because someone who thought assaulting a criminal who just got off because a judge threw out vigilante collected evidence in front of dozens of witnesses was a great move then they probably would be unfeeling.

I don't get that. I read the issue and still think the lawyer is slimy.

And did Bruce "brutally beat" the boxer? Don't have the ish in front of me, but I recall him goading the boxer, the boxer taking a swing, Bruce moving out of the way, and the boxer's momentum causing him to trip down the court steps.

[thwhtGuardian]

I don't get that. I read the issue and still think the lawyer is slimy.

And did Bruce "brutally beat" the boxer? Don't have the ish in front of me, but I recall him goading the boxer, the boxer taking a swing, Bruce moving out of the way, and the boxer's momentum causing him to trip down the court steps.

That's not what happened at all, it's a red panel with the boxer's hand shakily reaching up from the bottom of the panel while surrounded by Batman's cape and in the next panel Batman walks away from the scene leaving a gaggle of reporters and the lawyer covered in blood and on the verge of vomiting in the back ground. Despite happening largely off panel it's definitely clear that Batman literally beat him to a bloody pulp, and because of that instead of the Lawyer being just some slime bag who got a criminal off on a tiny technicality he's instead someone who is completely justified.

[SiegePerilous02]

Wife has options and would have public support if she decided to divorce.

Yes she does and it's not Batman's place to get her through it.

But calling her "stupid" if she decides to stay (for whatever reason we an guess, we don't know what she and her situation are like) is too dismissive and kind of sexist of an attitude for Bruce to have, IMO.

[hairys]

That's not what happened at all, it's a red panel with the boxer's hand shakily reaching up from the bottom of the panel while surrounded by Batman's cape and in the next panel Batman walks away from the scene leaving a gaggle of reporters and the lawyer covered in blood and on the verge of vomiting in the back ground. Despite happening largely off panel it's definitely clear that Batman literally beat him to a bloody pulp, and because of that instead of the Lawyer being just some slime bag who got a criminal off on a tiny technicality he's instead someone who is completely justified.

Even if your interpretation of those panels is better than mine (and I suspect it probably is), I still don't see how it redeems the lawyer or boxer. Frankly, I'm glad Batman beat up the boxer if that's what happened. I'm also a Punisher fan, which may explain why we're reacting so differently, haha. Fear not, though, since this story is not in continuity. Your Batman is still the guy who ties up criminals and leaves them out front of the GCPD for the criminal justice system to handle things from there.

[thwhtGuardian]

Even if your interpretation of those panels is better than mine (and I suspect it probably is), I still don't see how it redeems the lawyer or boxer. Frankly, I'm glad Batman beat up the boxer if that's what happened. I'm also a Punisher fan, which may explain why we're reacting so differently, haha. Fear not, though, since this story is not in continuity. Your Batman is still the guy who ties up criminals and leaves them out front of the GCPD for the criminal justice system to handle things from there.

How can it not redeem what the lawyer did? If this is the way this Batman acts then it's completely understandable that evidence relating to him would be excluded.

And yeah, your preference might explain your reaction a bit...but Punisher and Batman are not the same character and shouldn't be written as such.

[JBatmanFan05]

Batman's confrontation with the boxer certainly didn't help Batman's image within the legal community, but it's hard to know how the public was reacting to the boxer and lawyer, and if the public (the court of public opinion) didn't believe or care for them, then I doubt Batman's act of verbal provocation (and then the self-defense beatdown) much helped the image of the lawyer and the boxer.

It's a tough scene to analyze, maybe Batman thought this very public confrontation was the only or best way to deter the boxer from further crimes, if the boxer is so vain or image obsessed. But I can see why the scene raises questions of how in-character or not it is for Batman. Definitely not a scene that's aims to hit home how Batman tries to work with the legal system (except for the tiny reminder that judges do consider admitting evidence Batman collects).

It's definitely a scene you can tell Ennis is using to set the tone for his take on an angrier Batman. A Batman not above doing all that so publicly if he's angry enough about an injustice.

[Bad Witch]

First issue was better than I thought it would be. I'm intrigued and will continue to follow this. The art was nice!

[thwhtGuardian]

Batman's confrontation with the boxer certainly didn't help Batman's image within the legal community, but it's hard to know how the public was reacting to the boxer and lawyer, and if the public (the court of public opinion) didn't believe or care for them, then I doubt Batman's act of verbal provocation (and then the self-defense beatdown) much helped the image of the lawyer and the boxer.

It's a tough scene to analyze, maybe Batman thought this very public confrontation was the only or best way to deter the boxer from further crimes, if the boxer is so vain or image obsessed. But I can see why the scene raises questions of how in-character or not it is for Batman. Definitely not a scene that's aims to hit home how Batman tries to work with the legal system (except for the tiny reminder that judges do consider admitting evidence Batman collects).

It's definitely a scene you can tell Ennis is using to set the tone for his take on an angrier Batman. A Batman not above doing all that so publicly if he's angry enough about an injustice.

How the fictional people of Gotham may or may not feel is largely beside the point, it's more how it appears to the reader and how it colors the reader's perception of Batman.

I can't speak for everyone, and I wouldn't try, but for my eyes he just came off as a cheap hood there, his behavior no different than some slimy gangster and that characterization right there at the start then made me read his conversation with Alfred as being almost completely deadpan and not just a series of bad "jokes". If he acts like a thug when a case doesn't go his way then a shallow and uncaring view of the victims of crime and unfortunate children doesn't seem like a joke, it just seems like a character moment that fits a thug...and that just isn't Batman.

If this was some kind of pastiche, like say Jeff Lemire's Skulldigger, that was trying to get across how the author saw the genre trappings associated with Batman would play out more realistically, it might work better. But played as the legitimate article? It just doesn't fit.

[JBatmanFan05]

I can't speak for everyone, and I wouldn't try, but for my eyes he just came off as a cheap hood there, his behavior no different than some slimy gangster

I definitely didn't see his behavior in those very strong terms....I could definitely see Batman wanting to use "keep 'em guessing" unpredictable tactics now and then, but I can't say the scene sits perfectly well with me, considering Batman would have many other options as far as keeping tabs on this boxer and simply finding another way to make him pay more legally without needing this surprisingly public uncivil provocative conflict (that's probably unlikely to much meaningfully deter such behavior since average joes/janes (not big money rich folks in high profile cases) probably make up the lion share of Gotham's domestic/sexual assaults).


What Ennis is doing, I think, is having Batman speak a lot for Ennis, Ennis presumably being the angry sarcastic type who vents about things like this (I know Ennis must be like this in real life because all his interviews are more or less angry sarcastic provocative vents). Frank Castle, Billy Butcher, Hitman, Batman...Ennis I think puts a good helping of himself into them.

[thwhtGuardian]

I definitely didn't see his behavior in those very strong terms....I could definitely see Batman wanting to use "keep 'em guessing" unpredictable tactics now and then, but I can't say the scene sits perfectly well with me (considering Batman would have many other options as far as keeping tabs on this boxer and simply finding another way to make him pay more legally without needing this surprisingly public uncivil provocative conflict).


What Ennis is doing, I think, is having Batman speak a lot for Ennis, Ennis presumably being the angry sarcastic type who vents about things like this (I know Ennis must be like this in real life because all his interviews are more or less angry sarcastic provocative vents). Frank Castle, Billy Butcher, Hitman, Batman...Ennis I think puts a good helping of himself into them.

"Keep them guessing" would be like leaving a batarang in the boxer's penthouse the night after being cleared; that say's "I can get to you whenever I want, where ever you are."
Beating him into a bloody pulp so badly it splatters people with blood and causes several to look like they're going to be sick? That doesn't speak to having a thought out tactic to keep tabs on a criminals; it's just brutality which comes across as the kind of spur of the moment action of a thug.

And as I said, it could have perhaps worked if it was another character but when you're writing Batman that's something else entirely.