Men accused in the Me-Too movement that deserve Forgiveness???

[Castle]

And some haven’t.

Is taking every accusation at face value and potentially ruining the lives of innocent people worth it?

It’s a serious question btw. I don’t have an answer for myself just yet.

Well this has been part of a legit criticism of the me too movement that some people were loosing their careers just for been accused with no concrete proof. Even the ...believe all women talking point backfired during the 2020 elections, but that been said, this is why I am in support for and of some actors still coming back.

Michael Douglas was accused, with no concrete proof and I think he is back for Ant Man 3 which is quite a big serious deal because DISNEY is very strict with keeping their parental friendly image...but again an actor Like Michael Douglas is still in a far higher class of celebrity than say a person like James Gunn

[Thezmage]

And some haven’t.

Is taking every accusation at face value and potentially ruining the lives of innocent people worth it?

It’s a serious question btw. I don’t have an answer for myself just yet.

That's why it's not about taking every accusation at face value, but about taking them seriously

[Bunch of Coconuts]

Ok, but a lot of these accusations used to be dismissed even if they were true. It's not surprising some people got fed up with that state of affairs. Even if the results swing a bit too far in the other direction now, at least people are taking these kinds of transgressions more seriously, from what I've seen

Sure. And I admitted that it’s a tricky situation, and ideally there would be proper investigations (which is a very rose-tinted-hopeful outlook).

But is having the pendulum swing so far that we just believe every accusation appropriate? What can, or should, be done for those who inevitably suffer from false accusation? Is monetary compensation enough?

Or what can be done to prevent or deter false accusation? Harsher punishment for falsely pointing fingers? Doesn’t that just, in turn, make people scared to come forth with legitimate accusations, for fear of being “proven a liar”?

Just a shitty situation.

That's why it's not about taking every accusation at face value, but about taking them seriously

Sure. And I’m commenting on some awkward verbiage that stuck out to me, which indicates feelings on this are complicated.

[CellarDweller]

You don’t see why a grown man yelling at a teenager he has a privileged position over in private location where she can’t leave and has no backup is a problem unless it’s sexual?

Hello Thezmage,

You are correct, someone like that shouldn't be alone with a teenager. I didn't explain myself properly.

After reading Michelle's post where she specifically stated that Joss' behavior was "VERY. Not. Appropriate" and that she would not go into it further, it seemed to me to indicate that what occurred was something more than verbal abuse. If people on the show specified that he was not to be alone with Michelle (who was 14) but didn't say he shouldn't be alone with any woman on the show, it could lead to the conclusion that she was more at risk to an assault.

[Castle]

Hello Thezmage,

You are correct, someone like that shouldn't be alone with a teenager. I didn't explain myself properly.

After reading Michelle's post where she specifically stated that Joss' behavior was "VERY. Not. Appropriate" and that she would not go into it further, it seemed to me to indicate that what occurred was something more than verbal abuse. If people on the show specified that he was not to be alone with Michelle (who was 14) but didn't say he shouldn't be alone with any woman on the show, it could lead to the conclusion that she was more at risk to an assault.

The whole Michelle thing is sad but at the same this is the reason people are always told to separate people from the creator or the character they play. Bill Cosby was not Dr Huxtable. Despite the common mix up.

Joss introduced Dawn so the show could appeal to a younger crowd, there was also meant to be an innocence about Dawn, even to the point that Michelle was not allowed to were dark colors on the show, dawn was introduced as a kid for buffy to look after and protect. whedon came up this concept, so how he can now harass the same child actress and not make her feel safe on the show is almost horrendous if I could not separate the character from the actor or creator.

[CosmiComic]

Sure. And I admitted that it’s a tricky situation, and ideally there would be proper investigations (which is a very rose-tinted-hopeful outlook).

But is having the pendulum swing so far that we just believe every accusation appropriate? What can, or should, be done for those who inevitably suffer from false accusation? Is monetary compensation enough?

Or what can be done to prevent or deter false accusation? Harsher punishment for falsely pointing fingers? Doesn’t that just, in turn, make people scared to come forth with legitimate accusations, for fear of being “proven a liar”?

Just a shitty situation.



Sure. And I’m commenting on some awkward verbiage that stuck out to me, which indicates feelings on this are complicated.

I don't recall every accusation being believed. Maybe that happens online but I think it's less so when these things are actually brought up to people in power, like law enforcement, or employers at these corporations, where it really matters more. that's why some people are so loud about it online, because it doesn't get dealt with as much in places where it actually needs to get resolved.

And i don't get this preoccupation with false accusations. It's not exactly as common as some media promote. most of these accusations don't reach any kind of court. People are scared to come forth already because they get dismissed, questioned and ridiculed. So don't believe every accusation, but don't not believe them either, is how I approach it. I don't see why harsh punishments for false accusations are needed

[SiegePerilous02]

I think it's because the media covers all the accusations against the big names and the whole thing is sensationalized. Even among those, I imagine most of the accusations have some truth to them, but there are always the outliers that have accusers come forward to go after big targets because they are after money.

But then when we factor in the amount of rape and other sexual misconduct cases that happen among average non-celebrity people that don't get reported for various reasons, I think the number of false accusations that are actually out there gets even smaller. The whole thing should be handled with the utmost seriousness for both the sake of the accuser and the accused depending on what the truth is.

The stance of "I don't care if some innocent men go under from some false accusations if it means getting justice for the legit cases" we got from some people has rubbed me the wrong way, but not as much as when false accusations are painted as being more common place than they likely are.

[Kieran_Frost]

I think we are forgetting lots HAVE been 'forgiven' (though more accurately would be 'chosen to ignore/forget'). Geoffrey Rush, Dustin Hoffmann and George Takei spring to mind, as far as I'm aware they aren't cancelled. I do think the ones that stick... are about a pattern, not one time events. And I think the industry knows far more about patterns (just not publicly) and choose to 'forgive' those without patterns, and double down on those with known patterns. That's my take on it, at-least. So people like Johnny Depp will be back. I don't think Spacey will, personally. One unknown Italian film does not a return make.

The one which currently irritates me is John Barrowman, mainly because he seems to be getting punished for things that were common knowledge years ago and that he apologized for at the time but more importantly that it all seems to have originated from Noel Clarke who wanted someone else to take the heat off his infinitely worse stuff. But now just John seems to be getting stuff cancelled.

Well... to be clear ALL of Noel's stuff is cancelled, it's not 'just John'.

[CosmiComic]

I think it's because the media covers all the accusations against the big names and the whole thing is sensationalized. Even among those, I imagine most of the accusations have some truth to them, but there are always the outliers that have accusers come forward to go after big targets because they are after money.

But then when we factor in the amount of rape and other sexual misconduct cases that happen among average non-celebrity people that don't get reported for various reasons, I think the number of false accusations that are actually out there gets even smaller. The whole thing should be handled with the utmost seriousness for both the sake of the accuser and the accused depending on what the truth is.

The stance of "I don't care if some innocent men go under from some false accusations if it means getting justice for the legit cases" we got from some people has rubbed me the wrong way, but not as much as when false accusations are painted as being more common place than they likely are.

I can't speak for others, but I don't recall that being anyone's stance. I think some people just view false accusations as a relatively less major problem than true accusations being ignored

I think we are forgetting lots HAVE been 'forgiven' (though more accurately would be 'chosen to ignore/forget'). Geoffrey Rush, Dustin Hoffmann and George Takei spring to mind, as far as I'm aware they aren't cancelled. I do think the ones that stick... are about a pattern, not one time events. And I think the industry knows far more about patterns (just not publicly) and choose to 'forgive' those without patterns, and double down on those with known patterns. That's my take on it, at-least. So people like Johnny Depp will be back. I don't think Spacey will, personally. One unknown Italian film does not a return make.


Well... to be clear ALL of Noel's stuff is cancelled, it's not 'just John'.

How strong were the accusations against those guys you mentioned?

[Kieran_Frost]

How strong were the accusations against those guys you mentioned?

How do you mean? As in was it 'he raped me' level, no, absolutely not. To be clear, absolutely not! It was all inappropriate groping/touching that was very much not wanted or asked for. And I think Dustin Hoffman exposed himself too, but that one was stated to happen in the 70s. Hence... no pattern emerged after to imply he continued to do it.

[SiegePerilous02]

I can't speak for others, but I don't recall that being anyone's stance. I think some people just view false accusations as a relatively less major problem than true accusations being ignored

Oh no, I was just making a general statement, not at anyone in this thread.

[CosmiComic]

How do you mean? As in was it 'he raped me' level, no, absolutely not. To be clear, absolutely not! It was all inappropriate groping/touching that was very much not wanted or asked for. And I think Dustin Hoffman exposed himself too, but that one was stated to happen in the 70s. Hence... no pattern emerged after to imply he continued to do it.

Ok. I meant more like, "what exactly happened?". Tbf, even if it was minor, these kinds of incidents should still be brought up.

Oh no, I was just making a general statement, not at anyone in this thread.

Oh, ok. I haven't seen that myself.

[Bunch of Coconuts]

When one has been on the receiving end of false accusations, one’s feelings on the matter tend to have a different perspective.

My life could have very well been ruined forever. Still flung me into a severe depression for a good number of years.

Is it as often as “the media” paints it out to be? Maybe/probably not. But don’t pretend like people don’t lie just to try and get back at someone else.

[Kieran_Frost]

Ok. I meant more like, "what exactly happened?". Tbf, even if it was minor, these kinds of incidents should still be brought up.

I can't specifically remember, George Takei was defo a grope of a male model in the 80s. Geoffrey Rush I seem to remember was a little more serious, but it went away. Dustin Hoffman was all about an actress in the 70s, I can't remember. I just remember they got accused, and... seemingly it's all fine now as they still get work.

[CosmiComic]

When one has been on the receiving end of false accusations, one’s feelings on the matter tend to have a different perspective.

My life could have very well been ruined forever. Still flung me into a severe depression for a good number of years.

Is it as often as “the media” paints it out to be? Maybe/probably not. But don’t pretend like people don’t lie just to try and get back at someone else.

I'm sorry that happened. It's never appropriate.

Tbh, I think the problem is how these incidents affect people hasn't been talked about that much. So I can see why people are becoming more concerned with seeing these accusations taken seriously, assuming they're true.

I can't specifically remember, George Takei was defo a grope of a male model in the 80s. Geoffrey Rush I seem to remember was a little more serious, but it went away. Dustin Hoffman was all about an actress in the 70s, I can't remember. I just remember they got accused, and... seemingly it's all fine now as they still get work.

I guess people's memories are short. Someone always complains about cancel culture, but how many people actually get cancelled?