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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    I don't think there was any sexual accusations there. Its just seems like he was a really rough guy to work for. But I don't know how unique that is in that business. I have been on some of those sets and there isn't a lot of PC stuff going on. Time is money. They don't mess around.
    No there was no sexual accusation but from everything I have read, I feel Whedon was just a cruel and toxic person, who belittled actors. if what Carpenter said is true that he mocked her weight when she was pregnant and still was around 120 pounds,which by the way I still see as a slim figure...a woman that weighs 120 pounds ain't fat to me and asked about her pregnancy, if she would have the baby and then mocked her faith because she got a tattoo that help heal her. all that sums up a person who is cruel, which by the way is disgusting behaviour. it is also bullying and I hate bullies.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-19-2021 at 12:50 PM.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jackalope89 View Post
    Johnny Depp was falsely accused by Amber Heard. And later evidence showed that it was Heard that was actually quite abusive (verbally, emotionally, and physically).
    I feel Depp would be back. he has a lot of fans and also, while the courts may have sided with Amber, in hollywood it feels as if things are split between Johnny and Amber. Johnny had many of his celeb fans that stood by him.


    Johnny would be fine, just give it 3 years for everyone to move on, also Amber ain't 100% innocent either and everyone knows it. Both Johnny and Amber were equally toxic if you read the court papers and listened to all the tape recordings. both are to blame for the trainwreck that was their relationship.

    Johnny is among the some, I may be willing to give a second chance for 2 reasons.

    1. Only Amber Head has accused him of been abusive and she herself has admitted she did hit him

    2. There is no pattern of behaviour that shows Depp abuses women on a daily basis.
    Last edited by Castle; 06-19-2021 at 01:02 PM.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Didn't he threaten several of the cast members?
    Well thats what they say. I don't know. He seems to have made some people upset. But I don't know what line of work everyone here is in, but there are bs accusations in all business. Why we know about this is the guy is super high profile. And once accusations start coming out its almost impossible to defend at least publicly. Especially now a days when some actress or actor can just throw things out on twitter and its all over the world in 2 seconds.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by inisideguy View Post
    Well thats what they say. I don't know. He seems to have made some people upset. But I don't know what line of work everyone here is in, but there are bs accusations in all business. Why we know about this is the guy is super high profile. And once accusations start coming out its almost impossible to defend at least publicly. Especially now a days when some actress or actor can just throw things out on twitter and its all over the world in 2 seconds.
    Isn't it more often these accusations are ignored, even if they're credible, and have been for years? It's not like Hollywood is some ethical place where abuse doesn't happen.

  5. #20
    Incredible Member Indian Ink's Avatar
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    If the person is not committing those actions anymore and the judiciary system has made it's actions or decision to, or not to act upon them, then I think they should be 'forgiven'. If they're poison to some members of the public then that's their individual choice to have nothing to do with them anymore.

    We presently seem to be in the state of a new secularized Christianity. (Including a return to 'the sins of our fathers') Except of course any figures of divinity have been removed, and one might argue, fine, we only need the higher morality of religion and not "the imaginary man in the sky." However with no divinity there's now no non legal force to appeal to except the capricious media and an often politically divided public. (Is he one of us? should we go easy on him?)

    When it comes to the art or product, In the function of purchase I don't care if they're nice or not. Merely whether they're good at what they do. Now I would prefer that they were a great member of humanity, but it's not a deal killer for me. If they've committed a criminal act then the legal system should pursue them to the fullest. Any anger I might feel, is against the judiciary, if the sentences are too lenient. Street kid or Movie star they should be treated exactly the same way, and sadly that's often not been the case.

  6. #21
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    What do you mean by secularized Christianity? I'm not really sure what you're talking about

  7. #22
    Incredible Member Indian Ink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    What do you mean by secularized Christianity? I'm not really sure what you're talking about
    A community of generally universally accepted belief about the moral state of existence that will function naturally in a correctly ordered civilization, the appropriate behavior being set (if not always acknowledged) within western civilization by Christianity, but the Church is now out sourced to the various political bodies and media systems, and belief in the Holy Trinity or any general moral God for that matter is now removed. The actions are preserved, but the outside force, imagined or otherwise, is removed.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Ink View Post
    A community of generally universally accepted belief about the moral state of existence that will function naturally in a correctly ordered civilization, the appropriate behavior being set (if not always acknowledged) within western civilization by Christianity, but the Church is now out sourced to the various political bodies and media systems, and belief in the Holy Trinity or any general moral God for that matter is now removed. The actions are preserved, but the outside force, imagined or otherwise, is removed.
    And how does any of that actually exist? I've never heard of this before.

    Anyway, how does it relate to this matter?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Didn't he threaten several of the cast members?
    He threatened to destroy Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins' careers. He was allegedly abusive towards Ray Fisher. I think he may have been abusive towards other cast members to varying degrees.


    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    Ray Fisher, as far as I can tell, decided he wanted to co-direct the movie (or his character, at least) and when told no, considered that "abusive." Which unfortunately is par for the course nowadays.

    His behavior toward Charisma Carpenter, and incidents mentioned by James Marsters and Gal Gadot seem to indicate that Whedon can be a real dick if you get on his bad side (or if he puts you on his bad side). But he is clearly not like that all the time or to everyone. He does seem to hold Zack Snyder, and DC movies in general, pretty much in contempt and so shouldn't work on any. If being a dick gets you cancelled though, we also have to cancel Hitchcock, Kubrick, Von Stroheim, Bernardo Bertolucci, David O. Russell. Quentin Tarantino supposedly spat on Uma Thurman while filming Kill Bill.

    But the one I think should come back is Warren Ellis. He sounds like kind of an alley cat, but these were grown-ass women with working vocal cords capable of saying "no," and I don't see any evidence he ever tried to force himself on anyone. He was just a writer, not a publisher or even editor, so it's not like he could Harvey Weinstein anybody. He may have given the impression he would help some women's careers and then ghosted when they wouldn't put out, but that makes him a selfish bastard and a fake friend. Adults need to be able to deal with people like that, honestly. His accusers say they aren't trying to wreck his career, but that's kind of disingenuous given today's climate.

    As for me, none of these men need my forgiveness... I'm not the wronged party. And I'm going to go right on watching and reading the things that give me a little bit of pleasure amid the horrorshow this world has become.

    Wow. That's one way of looking at it. A horrible, way, but a way.

  10. #25
    Incredible Member Indian Ink's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    And how does any of that actually exist? I've never heard of this before.

    Anyway, how does it relate to this matter?
    What was that joke about three fish? Two fish in the sea swim past a third. The third one says; "Morning, How's the water today!" After passing, one of the two says to the other, "What's water?" If something's omnipresent you may never notice it. What gets noticed most of all is difference.

    Aren't we talking about forgiveness? Who's hypothetically doing the forgiving here? It's not God. It's not the old church. It's the new church of a moral secular community and media. Appeals are being made within this thread which individuals should be forgiven within this new church which has slowly taken over from the old. How many would be taken seriously now if they said "I've found god and I'm deeply sorry for my past actions" Now they make appeals to and through the wide media instead. "My notions/actions in the past were deeply flawed and I'm now seeking help in correcting them." Both now and in the past, I took and take these mea culpas with a pinch of salt, but that's the way it is.

  11. #26
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero Hunter View Post
    It is weird with Whedon because some actors love the guy to death and worked with him multiple times. Others talk about him like he is the worst boss they ever had. Is it the actors or is it Whedon? It is hard to say.
    I'd say it's Whedon. With how practically nobody in the Buffy/Angel casts came to his defense (by either staying out of it or throwing shade/backing the accusers), it's easy to imagine he plays favorites. In this case of this cast it's Dushku, Denisof, Hannigan and Acker, but that doesn't make them complicit or anything: abusers can show different sides of themselves to different people, so all of them may have honestly been unaware anything was going on. Same with Anthony Stewart Head, who seemed shocked by all this; he was the most experienced actor in the cast, it's unlikely Joss ever pulled any **** with him because he knew he couldn't get away with it.

    His poor treatment of Carpenter had been an open secret for years in the fandom though, and it's the main red flag that Joss "Feminist" Whedon didn't practice what he preached. Gellar not associating with him ever since the show should also have been a telling sign, and the small support for Carpenter that she offered still spoke volumes. Gellar at one point got a reputation as "being difficult to work with," but that is often code for "a woman who won't put up with abuse from male superiors." The other Buffyverse lead, Boreanaz, doesn't seem to have any love for him either, and is still friendly with Gellar and Carpenter.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnakinFlair View Post
    He threatened to destroy Gal Gadot and Patty Jenkins' careers. He was allegedly abusive towards Ray Fisher. I think he may have been abusive towards other cast members to varying degrees.





    Wow. That's one way of looking at it. A horrible, way, but a way.
    And that's not even getting into everything actors from other shows have said about him

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indian Ink View Post
    What was that joke about three fish? Two fish in the sea swim past a third. The third one says; "Morning, How's the water today!" After passing, one of the two says to the other, "What's water?" If something's omnipresent you may never notice it. What gets noticed most of all is difference.

    Aren't we talking about forgiveness? Who's hypothetically doing the forgiving here? It's not God. It's not the old church. It's the new church of a moral secular community and media. Appeals are being made within this thread which individuals should be forgiven within this new church which has slowly taken over from the old. How many would be taken seriously now if they said "I've found god and I'm deeply sorry for my past actions" Now they make appeals to and through the wide media instead. "My notions/actions in the past were deeply flawed and I'm now seeking help in correcting them." Both now and in the past, I took and take these mea culpas with a pinch of salt, but that's the way it is.
    Ok but I think you might be drawing connections which aren't there. Obviously these people would look better if they publicly apologized for their actions

  14. #29
    Ultimate Member SiegePerilous02's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndrewCrossett View Post
    His behavior toward Charisma Carpenter, and incidents mentioned by James Marsters and Gal Gadot seem to indicate that Whedon can be a real dick if you get on his bad side (or if he puts you on his bad side). But he is clearly not like that all the time or to everyone. He does seem to hold Zack Snyder, and DC movies in general, pretty much in contempt and so shouldn't work on any. If being a dick gets you cancelled though, we also have to cancel Hitchcock, Kubrick, Von Stroheim, Bernardo Bertolucci, David O. Russell. Quentin Tarantino supposedly spat on Uma Thurman while filming Kill Bill.
    I'm not too well versed in Hitchcock, but I think he has been spoken of as being more than just a mere "dick." Tippi Hedren said he sexually assaulted her on the set of Marnie and threatened her. So if he was working today, he absolutely should be cancelled.

    I think Tarantino spitting on Uma (and other degradations) were shot down by Thurman herself. The botched stunt scene with the car was his only offense against her (albeit a severe one), and they've appeared to have resolved it between themselves and he released the footage to her to do with what she did. She seemed more disgusted with Weinstein for keeping it covered up than with Tarantino.

    Even as a Tarantino fan, I feel like he should have faced more repercussions than he did. But he also doesn't appear to have any abusive patterns. There is this one horrible incident out of several productions, and none of his other stars have said anything to my knowledge, so this hopefully would just be a terrible outlier to how he runs his ships. He also shot his mouth off and said some dumb **** about Roman Polanski because he's an opinionated weirdo fanboy, but he called Polanski's victim and apologized to her and she seems to have been accepting of it.

    Basically, even being a dick shouldn't be tolerated. The directors should stop huffing their own farts and realize they aren't Gods and don't have the right to abuse people in either large or small ways. Creating such an environment isn't going to yield great results from the workers either, who can put in their best efforts when they are stressed out?
    Last edited by SiegePerilous02; 06-19-2021 at 05:19 PM.

  15. #30
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    Yeah, Hitchcock is an infamous example of a problematic director. For decades, this was business as usual. Now people are calling it out.

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