Mutant power classification pls

[Askani's Flame]

I'm still confused as to what this project is and why it's relevant. Kudos for your boss on trying something new, but this can't be Marvel related as what Hickman put in place is what it is. All the editors and JDW are on board with it. So creating a new class would fly in the face of existing company lines, and is counter-intuitive to what Hickman is building. And if your boss is trying to find middle ground with writers who hate what Hickman has done then it sounds like this is a failure to launch out the gate tbh.

Also why do we need 5 threads on omegas? At this point do we need a sub-board just to deal with omega talk?

[Frobisher]

I'm still confused as to what this project is and why it's relevant. Kudos for your boss on trying something new, but this can't be Marvel related as what Hickman put in place is what it is. All the editors and JDW are on board with it. So creating a new class would fly in the face of existing company lines, and is counter-intuitive to what Hickman is building. And if your boss is trying to find middle ground with writers who hate what Hickman has done then it sounds like this is a failure to launch out the gate tbh.

Also why do we need 5 threads on omegas? At this point do we need a sub-board just to deal with omega talk?

There's the Comic Book Rumbles forum where people seem to have fun placing characters into imaginary D&D classes.

[GMikey]

I think I’m clear on what you’re looking for but I just feel like the logic in the process is flawed. You start by saying some of the writers hate Hickman’s work. This is being used as the basis for trying to restructure the whole thing. Yet at the same time you say you are looking for an official source that clearly defines or gives guidelines as to how to classify mutants by power class. However, because a few people hate what he’s done, you are deliberately ignoring the current authority on what makes a mutant Omega. That just doesn’t make a lot of sense to me. And since the project is starting based on some people’s bias against Hickman, I don’t see how you will end up with a list other than one that satisfies the biases of the people involved in the project thus just adding to the confusion anyway.

oh boy...

I'm not saying this ISNT flawed, I know it is, that's WHY I'm here asking questions and asking for references. WHAT ARE Hickman's criteria for mutant classifications? I've only received that very difficult to understand wiki page, and I prefer some sort of handbook, write up, article, a particular comic where characters go over the classes, SOMETHING that explains Hickman's def in a clear manner. For the ppl not liking Hickman's work that is NOT the basis of what we're trying to construct.

I'm not trying to "deliberately ignore authority" or anything like that, I'm just asking... where are the classifications? In an organized, fully fleshed out, chart like manner? Where are the definitions of "high order" and "highest order" and "alpha psi" and all that??? Youve not provided anything to at least say "here's the canon mutant classifications, pass this on".

I HAVE discussed what's on the table, bc our writers DONT have a good reference atm. I'm here trying to get it for them.

this project is NOT based on those with biases against Hickman, like some sort of "anti-Hickman" army, I'm just SHARING with you some of the perspectives here. And keep in mind that companies WILL do drastic changes if they deem something new "better", and while this project IS independent of the comics, it HAS gained attention with Marvel personnel. So... it MAKES SENSE in my boss' pov for someone like me to come and ask the nitty gritty questions from fans themselves to get the best perspective of something that COULD become mainstream.

Also keep in mind that there's been a zillion mutant classifications PER "universe" whether it was Fox, various comic runs, and so on. However I DO WANT what ever is current and pass it to the ppl that NEED it most, the writers.

[GMikey]

I'm still confused as to what this project is and why it's relevant. Kudos for your boss on trying something new, but this can't be Marvel related as what Hickman put in place is what it is. All the editors and JDW are on board with it. So creating a new class would fly in the face of existing company lines, and is counter-intuitive to what Hickman is building. And if your boss is trying to find middle ground with writers who hate what Hickman has done then it sounds like this is a failure to launch out the gate tbh.

Also why do we need 5 threads on omegas? At this point do we need a sub-board just to deal with omega talk?

The project is massive Marvel narrative in production, but silent until release. Many, MANY fans are plugged into it, nearly a million now, half of them being Marvel Studio's OWN private fanclub.

Because of the traction this project is getting with the current think tank and (somewhat) test audience, this COULD become mainstream. And so ideas and ideals ARENT in grave conflict with canon, I was sent here to gather from fans certain comic knowledge that would help guide the project in the right direction. the VAST majority of the fans AND writers involved are MCU fans, many of which are of other fandoms (like anime) and are proposing ideas based on the MCU/anime bias.

And I've seen companies change course if they saw something that seemed "better" or more "popular". and if this becomes one of those situations, THEN it would have been good if I CAME to you all early on to get certain answers and contributave thoughts.

LOL you're calling this a failure just bc there are writers with views opposing Hickman? Uh... there's a LOT of support for this project. I dont know one person against it and it is on the track of being something extremely successful. FYI... the chief writer IMPRESSED Marvel personnel in such a way that RECENTLY, she was promoted as an ADMIN in their official private fanclub, because of her work in progress AND how much respect she's gaining in the Marvel fan community. This is nowhere close to "failure", and things can change because.

My thing and apparently you're not understanding my position, I'm here to get more comic fan input in all of this. right now MCU fans seem to dominate AND when this grows into where its heading, it would have been better to have more comic fans involved so it would satisfy both sides.

This isnt about Omegas alone but how to structure a GOOD, comprehensive and fleshed out mutant classification chart, so I can present something of use to the writers that IS from current canon.

[Big Joe]

I can't see the point in even trying to classify every mutant and every power, and in my opinion it really doesn't matter all that much. You'd be comparing apples with pears and what for? What does it gain anyone? It ends up constraining writers. Can a mutant move between classes? Was Iceman, when he looked like a snowman and was only capable of throwing snowballs an omega level mutant?

There's no definitive list, but I'm sure you know that by now, there isn't even a definitive list of classifications. Should there be three, four, five, or even ten? Are passive powers inherently lower than active, aggressive powers? For example, Cypher, for his type of power must be considered quite impressive, but there's never a huge clamour to have him classed as omega, or alpha.

I actually think what Hickman has done here has been useful, he's saying there are very few mutants who can actually be considered omega, he's even gone as far as detailing who is, their power set and why. But he's gone no further than that, and that's probably the right way to go about it.

I just think you end up backing yourself into a corner if you try to categorise everyone, it's just about impossible. Just try ranking, for example, teleporters. It's an extremely difficult task, and more power doesn't necessarily make better characters.

This obsession with that sort of thing is what's making me assume that this is nothing more than fan fiction, for me it sounds absolutely nothing like the way I'd want to see X-Men comics go. I also think there's very little chance of Hickman's current work just being ditched.

I may be completely wrong, and I wish you luck anyway, it just doesn't sound like my bag unfortunately.

[GMikey]

I will get to some of the replies on here later today... HOWEVER... I think we've gotten WAAAAAAY off track with my ORIGINAL question/discussion...

That is, WHERE IS THE MOST CURRENT MUTANT CLASSIFICATION CHART, THAT IS NOT FROM A WIKI?

I need to find where in a handbook or article or SOMETHING that offers what the current Mutant classification ACTUALLY IS. Don't tell me "oh you need to be keeping up with the comics..." no that's NOT an answer. Where IS Marvel's own most recent chart that outlines what the classifications are and HOW the hell they work.

That's ALL I'm trying to learn, PLEASE everyone.

[Big Joe]

I will get to some of the replies on here later today... HOWEVER... I think we've gotten WAAAAAAY off track with my ORIGINAL question/discussion...

That is, WHERE IS THE MOST CURRENT MUTANT CLASSIFICATION CHART, THAT IS NOT FROM A WIKI?

I need to find where in a handbook or article or SOMETHING that offers what the current Mutant classification ACTUALLY IS. Don't tell me "oh you need to be keeping up with the comics..." no that's NOT an answer. Where IS Marvel's own most recent chart that outlines what the classifications are and HOW the hell they work.

That's ALL I'm trying to learn, PLEASE everyone.

I'd have thought, and of course I may be way off the mark, that if you're working as closely with Marvel as you appear to be telling us, you could just ask them and they'd no doubt give you anything you want. I mean since you're all so highly regarded and all that.

[GMikey]

I can't see the point in even trying to classify every mutant and every power, and in my opinion it really doesn't matter all that much. You'd be comparing apples with pears and what for? What does it gain anyone? It ends up constraining writers. Can a mutant move between classes? Was Iceman, when he looked like a snowman and was only capable of throwing snowballs an omega level mutant?

There's no definitive list, but I'm sure you know that by now, there isn't even a definitive list of classifications. Should there be three, four, five, or even ten? Are passive powers inherently lower than active, aggressive powers? For example, Cypher, for his type of power must be considered quite impressive, but there's never a huge clamour to have him classed as omega, or alpha.

I actually think what Hickman has done here has been useful, he's saying there are very few mutants who can actually be considered omega, he's even gone as far as detailing who is, their power set and why. But he's gone no further than that, and that's probably the right way to go about it.

I just think you end up backing yourself into a corner if you try to categorise everyone, it's just about impossible. Just try ranking, for example, teleporters. It's an extremely difficult task, and more power doesn't necessarily make better characters.

This obsession with that sort of thing is what's making me assume that this is nothing more than fan fiction, for me it sounds absolutely nothing like the way I'd want to see X-Men comics go. I also think there's very little chance of Hickman's current work just being ditched.

I may be completely wrong, and I wish you luck anyway, it just doesn't sound like my bag unfortunately.

LOL its not "fan fiction" its much more than that. AND the writer that started this project HAS gained the attention of Marvel personnel. That says a lot.

I'm trying to help make this as best as it can be AND as SOUND with current canon as possible.

if you want no part in it, that's totally fine. But for those who ARE interest, esp as I start posting real time updates on it, HELP me with what the current mutatn classifications are, so I can pass them on to the writers, so they can USE what's already canon instead of doing something wholly independent of it.

[jwatson]

I will get to some of the replies on here later today... HOWEVER... I think we've gotten WAAAAAAY off track with my ORIGINAL question/discussion...

That is, WHERE IS THE MOST CURRENT MUTANT CLASSIFICATION CHART, THAT IS NOT FROM A WIKI?

I need to find where in a handbook or article or SOMETHING that offers what the current Mutant classification ACTUALLY IS. Don't tell me "oh you need to be keeping up with the comics..." no that's NOT an answer. Where IS Marvel's own most recent chart that outlines what the classifications are and HOW the hell they work.

That's ALL I'm trying to learn, PLEASE everyone.

Definition of undefinable

: unable to be defined or precisely described : indefinable

omegalist.jpg

There you go. So if you guys are serious you can start from the in canon top classification of mutantdom and work your way down. Undefiniable meaning can not be defined, it's limits will never be known, that is why there can be more than one ala Quentin/Jean.

[Alphaxman]

Can some define in greater detail how the reality warpers are different? What makes Franklin "universal" and Jamie "quantum"? Is Mister M like a mutant version of Owen "Molecule Man" Reese? Why is Proteus an Omega when he has such limitations on his powers? He's warping doesn't seem to last without his constant attention and he needs physical bodies to survive.

And I still don't get how Quentin is an Omega while Rachel is not, when she's done greater feats, like beating his stupid a$$. She at least should be an Omega telekinetic. She literally rewrote her DNA and created a singularity. Or did she have some portion of the Phoenix force in her at the time? I can't remember.

[jwatson]

I'm still trying to figure out how people turned it into a vs because of the forge thing. Forge power is to create anything not create anything out of thin air. He still has to use materials which makes whatever he can create definable as the greatest minds can study it and then engineer it perhaps using different materials or the same.

[jwatson]

Can some define in greater detail how the reality warpers are different? What makes Franklin "universal" and Jamie "quantum"? Is Mister M like a mutant version of Owen "Molecule Man" Reese? Why is Proteus an Omega when he has such limitations on his powers? He's warping doesn't seem to last without his constant attention and he needs physical bodies to survive.

And I still don't get how Quentin is an Omega while Rachel is not, when she's done greater feats, like beating his stupid a$$. She at least should be an Omega telekinetic. She literally rewrote her DNA and created a singularity. Or did she have some portion of the Phoenix force in her at the time? I can't remember.

Seems pretty straight forward. I don't think anyone has the technology to make a sun from nothing like proteus said he could during Knull. Therefore incalculable.
No one can make a planet from scratch but Franklin did, even if it was a very tiny one. That can not be calculated to be reproduced.
Jamie gave birth to an entire shield station with nothing but an idea and no materials. I don't think you can calculate a forumal to duplicate that.
Storm could potentially make it as cold as iceman but no one can calculate how cold either could make it though i'm sure Iceman can do it faster and better. So they are both on the list.

I think people just got stuck in who they don't see on the list and just assumed there could only be one instead of accepting Hickman was saying they just aren't omega.

[GMikey]

Definition of undefinable

: unable to be defined or precisely described : indefinable

omegalist.jpg

There you go. So if you guys are serious you can start from the in canon top classification of mutantdom and work your way down. Undefiniable meaning can not be defined, it's limits will never be known, that is why there can be more than one ala Quentin/Jean.

I've had the following on file for some time now. I hope it can of some use to you:

Omega Class: An Omega-level mutant is one with the most powerful genetic potential of their mutant abilities. Some abilities depicted by mutants described as Omega-level include immortality, extreme manipulation of matter and energy, high psionic ability, strong telekinesis, and the potential to exist beyond the boundaries of the known physical universe. No firm definition has been offered in comics. Mutants that have been confirmed as Omega-level include Jean Grey, Vulcan, Rachel Summers, Iceman, Legion, Magneto. These mutants are the rarest of all mutants.

Alpha Class: The Alpha Mutants are the most powerful and most feared mutants. Alpha mutants have extremely powerful mutant traits without any significant flaws. Less than 10% of mutants are Alpha mutants so they are very rare. Some of the Alpha mutants include Cyclops, Gambit, Professor X, Havok, Colossus, and Emma Frost.

Beta Class: As far as how potent their powers are Beta Mutants are on the same level as Alpha mutants. The difference between Beta Mutants and Alpha Mutants is that the Beta Mutants have flaws, albeit very small flaws. The Beta mutants are also believed to be about 10% of the mutant population. Some examples of Beta mutants are Beast, Angel, Wolverine, Mystique and Sabretooth.

Gamma Class: Gamma mutants have very powerful mutants (starting to see a pattern?) but they have flaws. Unlike the Beta mutants a Gamma mutant's flaw is a major flaw that makes their life very hard. The best example is probably Rogue. Rogue can absorb anybody's power, which makes her very powerful, but she can't touch people making any kind of romantic life difficult. Also, while Alpha and Beta mutants can pass as regular looking humans, the majority of Gamma mutants cannot because they have physical defects like Blob or Marrow.

Delta Class: Delta Mutants are like Alpha mutants in that they don't have any significant flaws. The only problem is that Delta mutants don't have powers that match an Alpha mutant, or even a Beta or Gamma mutant. At least 50% of mutants are Delta mutants making them the most common type of mutant. Some examples of Delta mutants are Forge, Domino and Calisto.

Epsilon Class: Epsilon mutants or like Gamma mutants in that they have major flaws that make their lives very difficult. They also like Delta mutants have little or no significant powers to speak of. Approximately 20% of mutants are Epsilon mutants making them the second most common type of mutant. An example of an Epsilon class mutant is Beak.

Zeta Class: Zeta class mutants make up roughly 10% of the mutant population. They are mutants who have the "X-Gene", but it is still latent.

Okay so far this has been the BEST I could get as far as classifications go. I did pass this over like yesterday or day before. Thanks to those who gave me some sort of answer to work with. Hopefully it will lead to some interesting ideas. Only for whoever wants to know, I'll post about it once I get the update

[kevlon]

Not sure of Cyclops should be on that short list of alphas. He can't control his powers without his visor.

[ARkadelphia]

Classification of any kind tends to be problematic, as developments, status quos, definitions, understandings, boundaries, restrictions, etc. tend to shift over time, leading to the need of constant re-examinations and agreement on what is actualy what.

And while there are certain static "groundwork" classifications, which everyone can agree on, the moment you go into subcategories things become subjective and therefor a problem (not to forget the issue of abusing classifications for personal views and ideologies).

One of them is that two opposing groups will often form around types of classifications. Those who take them as gospel and become adamant in enforcing them as what they see as the status quo without room for change and those who see them as restrictions and challenge them.

Meanwhile most people will be somewhere in the middle, prefering a certain amount of foundation to better understand the world and be able to refer to things, while also open to changes in the system.

For example. Everyone can agree that there is a type of animal we refer to as "bird" but then there might be animals who are looking a lot like birds but are different to them, perhaps in terms of genetics or just in how they look and behave.
So most people will be open in accepting them as "not bird, but bird like" once they are informed of the difference or can figure it out themself. Because they agree on the groundwork category of "bird" as in feathered animals on two legs with wings and a beak.

But then there will be those insisting on it being a bird because it fits the common definition of what a bird should look like regardless of newer evidence or informations, while others will insist it on it not being a bird and dismiss the very notion of something being "bird like" because they insist on things needing to fit into correct classifications, even if these classifications can change.

And this gets more complicated when we go into the subject of "created" objects like tools, vehicles, art-forms and so on, because these are directly in the hand of human society and culture to shape, alter and define.

Just look at military naval vessels and how their classifications changed over time as technologies and tactics changed, but old terminology remained. Or look no further than music and the ever increasing number of sub-genres people like to create to the point of open mockery for the practics. Like Brütal Legends "Second Wave of American Tween Melodic Rap Metalcore" for example.

But this can go even worse when it comes to fictional universes, as these are not even subject to change by real world influences, but are entirely in the hand of people and their imagination, often conflicting ones.

Because now God A. can come in and say "Birds exist" and they do, which every reader can agree on makes sense.
But then God B. comes in and says "But birds come in variants alpha to omega, because i want my omega birds to be more special" and so they are and everyone refers to alpha to omega birds, but readers wonder who is what.
But then God C. comes in and declares there are "post omega birds" because they want their new type of characters to be more special than special and then they exist, but readers are now even more confused.
But then God D. comes in and declares "no more birds" and they are all gone, but the readers knew birds existed because they can show the old issues where they did.
But then God E. comes in and declares "make more birds, but alpha to omega now means something else" and so it is, but the readers give up and are frustrated.

So again classification is always problematic. However it can't be helped or stopped entirely as people also like to form categories and classifications, since it streamlines discussions and dialoges, because everyone can quickly take from a pre-existing source of definitions, without needing to explain everything beforehand.

But when these classifications get out of hand or are so frustratingly vague or subject to change, they just become a source of strife and arguments, especialy between the two extreme opposing sides, while those in the middle gets frustrated and just want the story to be enjoyable and might want the classification to be destroyed all together for a general base definition.



I feel he made it worse. Not only has he tried to create some legitimization of "omegas" as something that can be defined, but with a definition which is once again quite vague, but also introduced the whole Chimera thing, which are essentialy mutant versions of multi-core processors.

Meaning there is now a new arms race for more powerfull pet characters, not by how powerfull their mutation is but how many powerfull mutantions they combine in their multi-core X-gene.

Which makes it only a matter of time until existing characters are revealed to be natural chimeras, so they can be more special than special again.

This guy gets it. Stop the nonsense. Classifications add nothing to the stories.