Superman on the new WB Studio Tour banner

[manofsteel1979]

From what they told me...she is no longer his daughter in the final draft

DCEU Superman is a reeves pastiche who retired to raise his son with a possible opening for future appearances inspired by Superman rebirth depending on future movies.

Though Warners is more focused on black Superman at the moment, which is being pitched as a stand-alone Oscar movie/Nolan franchise in its own continuity

Given as Whedon's Justice League was more or less attempting to tie Keatonman and Reeveman to Batfleck and Supercavill via both using the old musical cues, Cavill Supes suddenly spouting corny dad jokes and Alfred alluding to Batman Returns (and perhaps even the Adam West show) with the" Exploding penguins "line. I can totally see Warners just outright merging Supes and Bats and saying that the Donner films, the Burton films and some of the Snyderverse stuff happened as a quasi interconnected continuity and now we are moving on from all of it.

That way we have a mostly retired as Batman but still active as a mentor Bruce Wayne in the persona of Keaton who seems eager to be Bruce again even if Affleck or Bale don't seem to want to.


Meanwhile we get a Shrodingers Superman situation with a Seminretired Superman still out there somewhere in the universe, ready to be used as cameo fodder whether Cavill plays the role or they hire someone else (Brandon Routh,perhaps?) to pop in from time to time if they need a jobber or mentor figure to say Kara or,yes, set up Jon Kent at some point. They can essentially use Superman without having to show him. Think the first season of SUPERGIRL. He's there,just off camera,just out of frame.

Or,if Dwayne Johnson wants to use a Superman in his Black Adam corner of things, he can use Cavill or someone else without necessarily stepping on the Snyderverse's toes or having to align with the larger DCEU.

[Superlad93]

If people are skeptical about the Reeve Superman addition to the main DCEU, well, it may not be much, but it's worth pointing out that DC will be publishing the continued adventures of the Reeve Superman AND the continued adventures of the Keaton Batman. A possible coincidence? Maybe. But between that, the banner, clearly being done with the Snyder Superman, and all signs pointing to Flashpoint folding Keaton's Batman into the main DCEU, I'm incline to think there's a good shot here.

Also, is this not shockingly similar to 5G's set up, but just singled down to mainly Clark and Bruce? Remember, 5G wasn't just some wacky thing DiDio came up with. It was being backed by the whole company for its multi media potential. And that's why it's still more or less being pushed now.

What the Flashpoint movie seems to be describing is a mix of the Flashpoint comic/New 52, Rebirth, and 5G. That actually tracks. Even down to the older rumors that talked about how 5G would re launch the whole line with new main characters, and the classic heroes would be relegated to self contained prestige Black Label OGNs and minis. That's basically The Batman, Joker, and the new black Superman movies.

The big issue with what was stopping 5G from happening in comics would the worry of how it would go over with the hardcore crowd, and how some traditionalist writers and editors weren't for it. But, that's just not an issue with the movies or linked TV shows-- especially in a post-MCU world. You can in fact replace Bruce or Clark in the main universe without worrying too much about the blow back because movies fans aren't nearly as stuck in their ways, and new fans for these films are literally always being made with each flick.

I think Jon as Superman has a more than fair shot of being a reality in a few years.

[Last Son of Krypton]

Thanks.

spoilers:

The first set of rumors/leaks are somewhat plausible in the broad sense IMO. We've known for a while now that this film will be a mash-up of Flashpoint and a Multiverse story, so the basic premise - that Barry trying to go back and save Nora triggers some kind of Multiversal collapse - kinda makes sense. As does the idea of the universes 'merging' in the end, which mirrors the conclusion of Flashpoint and COIE. Its certainly a plausible way to have Keaton's Batman in the 'main' DCEU moving forward, and to bring along Sasha Calle's Supergirl. That said, some stuff I find a bit less likely. The whole ''Sasha Calle's Supergirl is Reeves' daughter'' bit seems to contradict the other IMO more plausible leaks that she's basically a take on Flashpoint Superman, and that this is a world where Kara landed on earth, not Clark. Design-wise too, as pointed out later in that thread, she seems more like an alternate version of the Snyder/Cavill take on Superman than anything to do with Christopher Reeve. Frankly, Reeve being the 'canonical' Superman on the main DCEU earth is a bit of a dead-end (and I hate having to say this just after Richard Donner passed away)...hell, it makes more sense to at least bring Brandon Routh back as a 'modern' take on the Reeve Superman who can at least play a role in future films. I'm also iffy on Mirror Master being the daughter of a Batman foe. I mean, are they implying she's the daughter of the Joker or Penguin or Catwoman? Or was the original Mirror Master a foe of Keaton's Batman - which frankly does not fit that version of the character like AT ALL? The second set of rumors/leaks I think are mostly bullshit. Michael Keaton isn't wearing the Kingdom Come armor...we know he's wearing his traditional suit. And Cavill's Superman continuing to be the 'main' Superman in the end contradicts the first set of leaks that Sasha Calle is going to be merged into the history of this new reality (that said, its an outcome I'd be happy with). I think it'd be highly disappointing if Reverse-Flash is only ''alluded to'' in an adaptation of what is now one of his most iconic stories...and the idea that they'd use Black Flash and not Reverse-Flash is weird!

end of spoilers

On the whole, it was certainly an...entertaining...bunch of suppositions, maybe about 30% of which has some truth in it, or could be regarded as accurate predictions.

I would keep it simple. Merging of timelines and universes is unnecessary messy and confusing.

Couldn't Barry jumping in multiple universes (to form a mutiversal JL) and find Kara on main earth trapped and tortured there?

Oh, and it was my first time viewing a 4chan forum...boy, I think I need a drink after going through that Thank God for CBR mods!

I saw worse over there in the links that were sent to me (I don't adventure on 4chan on my own, lol).

That seems to be a bit of a confusing mess!

spoilers:

What's the point of tying her to the Reeve Superman if she's ultimately going to be tied to the Cavill Superman? In-universe, is the Cavill Superman going to be aged up about 10-20 years to account for why he has a grown daughter? If the goal was just to have a Supergirl in the main DCEU, why couldn't they just stick to her traditional origin?

end of spoilers

This is more wishful thinking. Reeves coming back from the grave to merge with Cavill and erase him to play dad on a farm. Sure. 🙃

[Superlad93]

Think the first season of SUPERGIRL.

I actually don't think this is very far off from what the plan might be, but with Jon rather than Clark.

If say the idea is that Kara is Reeve Superman's daughter, and maybe merging the universes makes a younger brother (similar to how it did it with Jordan on S&L) with Jon, then you'd have a subordinate Superboy/Superman to Kara's Supergirl.

You have it so Kara is brining up as his big sister who has to step up now that mom and dad are gone. It plays off the popularity of the Superman & Lois show without straight up rehashing it. Jon can be in complete awe of his sister as his primary hero (maybe he's too young to remember his dad) in a similar way to how the CW Superman was always in awe and boosting up Kara on the show.

Then you "backdoor pilot" a Superman movie off that as Kara goes off to space or something like that since that what DC seems hell bent on having her do when she's older. Now you have space Superwoman movies and an Earth bound young and new Superman movie.

The set up also works well if Kara is Jon's aunt/cousin and he's been raised by Ma up till now.

And once again, the remains of 5G via Future State did link Kara and Jon together pretty heavily.

[kryptonian]

I actually don't think this is very far off from what the plan might be, but with Jon rather than Clark.

If say the idea is that Kara is Reeve Superman's daughter, and maybe merging the universes makes a younger brother (similar to how it did it with Jordan on S&L) with Jon, then you'd have a subordinate Superboy/Superman to Kara's Supergirl.

You have it so Kara is brining up as his big sister who has to step up now that mom and dad are gone. It plays off the popularity of the Superman & Lois show without straight up rehashing it. Jon can be in complete awe of his sister as his primary hero (maybe he's too young to remember his dad) in a similar way to how the CW Superman was always in awe and boosting up Kara on the show.

Then you "backdoor pilot" a Superman movie off that as Kara goes off to space or something like that since that what DC seems hell bent on having her do when she's older. Now you have space Superwoman movies and an Earth bound young and new Superman movie.

The set up also works well if Kara is Jon's aunt/cousin and he's been raised by Ma up till now.

And once again, the remains of 5G via Future State did link Kara and Jon together pretty heavily.

If that doesn’t prove my theory...

[Vordan]

From what they told me...she is no longer his daughter in the final draft

DCEU Superman is a reeves pastiche who retired to raise his son with a possible opening for future appearances inspired by Superman rebirth depending on future movies.

Though Warners is more focused on black Superman at the moment, which is being pitched as a stand-alone Oscar movie/Nolan franchise in its own continuity

Hm I can believe this. If they want “Superman” to show up I’m sure they can get Routh to suit up again, to fight Black Adam or whatever. And down the road you use Jon as Kara’s replacement once Sasha is done. Helps justify the Jon push because while it will be years before they get to him, they’ll have material they can utilize. Wonder if this means they’re considering using Jace Fox Batman in the main DCEU as Keaton’s replacement as well? And I’m sure they’ll have Yara take over for Gal after WW3.

[kryptonian]

Hm I can believe this. If they want “Superman” to show up I’m sure they can get Routh to suit up again, to fight Black Adam or whatever. And down the road you use Jon as Kara’s replacement once Sasha is done. Helps justify the Jon push because while it will be years before they get to him, they’ll have material they can utilize. Wonder if this means they’re considering using Jace Fox Batman in the main DCEU as Keaton’s replacement as well? And I’m sure they’ll have Yara take over for Gal after WW3.

They have a lot of material in 5G notes

[superduperman]

I won't believe any rumors until something other than a troll site says so. I find it ironic that DC's movie universe is just as broken as their comic book universe.

[DABellWrites]

Because people believe it automatically means that both Cavill and Affleck are being erased/ignored/disrespected by Warners and DC.

We have to keep in mind that with Affleck, it was his decision to leave the franchise behind. True,the events of Justice League's troubled production may have hastened his decision to quit, but it seems more due to the fact he quit to get his life in order and being the defacto face of the DCEU franchise wasn't really a good fit for him,especially after it became clear the directorial vision and limited arc he signed up for was no longer being pursued. Warners probably were more than fine with Ben Affleck being Batman for the next several years yet. He wasn't fired. He quit. Frankly I was shocked he came back for Flash and even the Snyder cut reshoots.

With Cavill...its just unclear. I think WB likes him in the role of Superman. I think he likes being Superman and if given the right circumstances he'd be content on playing him for several more movies yet. However the empasse seems to be over how WB wants to use Superman and Cavill wanting more money and increased creative input. For whatever reason neither party is willing to budge,and thus Cavill is, and will likely to remain,in a strange limbo.

I honestly thought WB was just using the most recognizable actor for the respective character. Sure, we can make an argument about Bale being more recognizable than Keaton, but wasn't everyone on a Keaton high when CW's COIE came out? Seems like WB is just following that trend.

[Ra-El]

Honestly, I don't think WB's plans for Superman are really set on stone. When they brought in James Gunn they wanted him to do Superman, whatever the way he wanted to, white, black, Cavill, etc. For all we know the same thing is true to JJ Abrams, they brought him and offered a bunch of stuff, he is the one who decided to bring Coates to write a script based on his idea, not Warner or Hamada.

So, if one or two years from now, DC hires some new big fish, and they decide they want to make a Superman movie, they most likely will.

[Vordan]

Honestly, I don't think WB's plans for Superman are really set on stone. When they brought in James Gunn they wanted him to do Superman, whatever the way he wanted to, white, black, Cavill, etc. For all we know the same thing is true to JJ Abrams, they brought him and offered a bunch of stuff, he is the one who decided to bring Coates to write a script based on his idea, not Warner or Hamada.

So, if one or two years from now, DC hires some new big fish, and they decide they want to make a Superman movie, they most likely will.

That is, in theory, what the “multiverse” is supposed to allow. Abrams and Coates can do their Superman as a Nolan-esque standalone “prestige” series, Superman & Lois do their traditional take, there’s a DCEU Superman around for cameos and who can be trotted out to get beat down by Black Adam. If someone wants to do Red Son they can. But in practice I kind of doubt they want multiple Supermen on the big screen competing with one another. Keaton will be old and won’t be suited up so no one will be competing with Reeves. I think Gunn was approached before they had decided to approve Abrams and Coates’ pitch. They were still entertaining the idea of Cavill coming back around then, which doesn’t seem likely anymore.

[bat39]

None of it sounds particularly good but spoilers:

I'd take Kara just straight up being Superman's daughter than the chance of any implication of freaking Jon. Not that I think WB would ever utilize it because if things go well obviously they want to spin off with Supergirl as well as Coates' Superman project. Then theres the question of how long that takes and even if they'll be successful. It likely will never reach that point with WB's reputation. But yeah, screw that goddamn character already even if just in reference.

end of spoilers

All that said all this is probably fake. 4chan is probably the worst source imaginable.

Yeah, none of this is to be taken as gospel by any means. That said, what I've come to realize with leaks and rumors is that they're often an embellishment of the truth (at some starge of production), but as they pass from source to source, and forum to forum, some speculation and wishful thinking gets added on to the original vague 'facts'.

So I can believe some stuff, like the basic idea of redoing Flashpoint as a Multiverse story (with elements of COIE thrown in), and how Flash and Keaton's Batman will meet Supergirl. The fact that the film will end with a 'reset' of some sort has almost been official confirmed in one of the director's old interviews (and anyway makes sense given what we know of Flashpoint). But stuff like Christopher Reeve's Superman being involved in any way seem like wishful thinking at this point. Keaton and Reeve often get juxtaposed as the 'classic' Batman and Superman of the big screen (despite their eras not overlapping at all), so I'm not surprised if Keaton's involvement led someone to start wishing/hope for Reeve to be involved somehow as well.

If people are skeptical about the Reeve Superman addition to the main DCEU, well, it may not be much, but it's worth pointing out that DC will be publishing the continued adventures of the Reeve Superman AND the continued adventures of the Keaton Batman. A possible coincidence? Maybe. But between that, the banner, clearly being done with the Snyder Superman, and all signs pointing to Flashpoint folding Keaton's Batman into the main DCEU, I'm incline to think there's a good shot here.

Also, is this not shockingly similar to 5G's set up, but just singled down to mainly Clark and Bruce? Remember, 5G wasn't just some wacky thing DiDio came up with. It was being backed by the whole company for its multi media potential. And that's why it's still more or less being pushed now.

What the Flashpoint movie seems to be describing is a mix of the Flashpoint comic/New 52, Rebirth, and 5G. That actually tracks. Even down to the older rumors that talked about how 5G would re launch the whole line with new main characters, and the classic heroes would be relegated to self contained prestige Black Label OGNs and minis. That's basically The Batman, Joker, and the new black Superman movies.

The big issue with what was stopping 5G from happening in comics would the worry of how it would go over with the hardcore crowd, and how some traditionalist writers and editors weren't for it. But, that's just not an issue with the movies or linked TV shows-- especially in a post-MCU world. You can in fact replace Bruce or Clark in the main universe without worrying too much about the blow back because movies fans aren't nearly as stuck in their ways, and new fans for these films are literally always being made with each flick.

I think Jon as Superman has a more than fair shot of being a reality in a few years.

I think you may be onto something there. There's certainly an appetite for going back to the classics in superhero media, and DC in particular, right now. Hell, its become a trend across Hollywood. The era of reboots and remakes is past us...we're now in the era of 'legacy sequels' and 'unreboots' - from the new Halloween movies, to Jurassic World, to the Picard TV show, to the rumors of the return of Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man (and the confirmed return of Alfred Molina's Doc Ock), to Terminator Dark Fate, the Star Wars sequel trilogy, and hell, Keaton's return as Batman.

That said, the DC project I think fans across the board are most excited for now is Matt Reeves' The Batman with Robert Pattison as a rebooted Bruce Wayne. Would Jace Fox as Batman generate anything close to the same excitement? And I think more people are hoping for Henry Cavill's return, or a rebooted Superman, than a Jon Kent movie or this black Superman 'Elseworlds' story that Coates and JJ Abrams are apparently working on. And I don't see general audiences clamoring more for Yara Flor than for good ol' Diana (played by Gal Gadot or not).

So the 5G plan may work for film as far as appealing to nostalgia and to the iconography of classic Superman and Batman movies. But whether it'll go so far as to the part where you replace these characters with younger successors...I'm not so sure.

[Superlad93]

That said, the DC project I think fans across the board are most excited for now is Matt Reeves' The Batman with Robert Pattison as a rebooted Bruce Wayne. Would Jace Fox as Batman generate anything close to the same excitement? And I think more people are hoping for Henry Cavill's return, or a rebooted Superman, than a Jon Kent movie or this black Superman 'Elseworlds' story that Coates and JJ Abrams are apparently working on. And I don't see general audiences clamoring more for Yara Flor than for good ol' Diana (played by Gal Gadot or not).

The new stuff hasn't been advertised or made known to anyone outside of our very small minority, so no one knows to be excited for them or not yet. But do I think getting a black Batman in the mold of Batman Beyond will excite people in a similar way? Yeah, I'd say without a doubt. People were iffy on The Batman before they saw the trailer, so it wouldn't take too much. And do I think people would be interested in a well made Jon Kent Superman movie that was able to take the IP of Superman in a familiar but new direction? Yeah. Pretty easily actually. I'd even after Gadot gets her third movie people would be more than down for a Yara Wonder Woman that explores a new myth, yeah.

Like I said, it's not as much of an old boys club like comics are. And the concept of 5G was made in hopes of dragging comics out of that while paying respects to the past. But it's the movies and TV shows where it actually has the potential to work.

[bat39]

The new stuff hasn't been advertised or made known to anyone outside of our very small minority, so no one knows to be excited for them or not yet. But do I think getting a black Batman in the mold of Batman Beyond will excite people in a similar way? Yeah, I'd say without a doubt. People were iffy on The Batman before they saw the trailer, so it wouldn't take too much. And do I think people would be interested in a well made Jon Kent Superman movie that was able to take the IP of Superman in a familiar but new direction? Yeah. Pretty easily actually. I'd even after Gadot gets her third movie people would be more than down for a Yara Wonder Woman that explores a new myth, yeah.

Like I said, it's not as much of an old boys club like comics are. And the concept of 5G was made in hopes of dragging comics out of that while paying respects to the past. But it's the movies and TV shows where it actually has the potential to work.

Hmm...you're right, we actually don't know what the interest in many of these projects would be unless wider audiences hear of them.

Marvel at least seems to have gotten people excited about the prospect of life after Tony Stark and Steve Rogers, so maybe DC could manage to get people excited about life after Bruce Wayne and Clark Kent.

But promoting a Jace Fox or Jon Kent movie will certainly need more work than promoting the return of Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne, or trafficking in the iconography of Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent.

[Superlad93]

But promoting a Jace Fox or Jon Kent movie will certainly need more work than promoting the return of Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne, or trafficking in the iconography of Christopher Reeve as Clark Kent.

I agree, and that's why I think they're doing the Reeve, Keaton, Supergirl, and Batgirl stuff to begin with. It's rehabilitation and set up. Putting Reeves and Keaton as our dead or retired Superman and Batman while we move forward with just Supergirl and Batgirl does two things 1) explains to the viewers that Clark and Bruce's time has passed and 2) holds the spots of Superman and Batman. That culminates in them eventually requiring that the Superman and Batman IPs be used in the main universe. They are IPs before anything, and they can't be replaced by off-shoot names like Supergirl, Batgirl, Superboy, or Batwing.

What I'm about to say is incredibly manipulative, but also highly likely: in this set up the Superman and Batman IPs overtake the Supergirl and Batgirl IPs as the fresh and new Next Generation idea.