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  1. #91
    Fantastic Member Dinosaur Hulk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blanks View Post
    There was a lot of things I did enjoy, but the one thing that annoys me is how Kindred is/was Harry, when we have a Harry already alive and about due to OMD retcons. So, maybe after the run ends with issue 74, maybe I will be able to appreciate it more. Dunno.
    I am okay with Harry being Kindred (even if Harry is evil YET AGAIN).
    The thing that annoys me the most that it was presented like a huge mystery and yet the very first, the most obvious answer was the right one.
    "Who is Kindred" was the most important question for a good part of the run.
    Maybe it would be smarter to reveal his identity at the very beggining without trying to "mislead" and "trick" us for 50 issues.

  2. #92
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    Maybe I stand alone in this but I was totally surprised when the identity of Kindred was finally revealed but I was disappointed with the story and the design. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think it is going to be that impactful

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinosaur Hulk View Post
    I am okay with Harry being Kindred (even if Harry is evil YET AGAIN).
    The thing that annoys me the most that it was presented like a huge mystery and yet the very first, the most obvious answer was the right one.
    "Who is Kindred" was the most important question for a good part of the run.
    Maybe it would be smarter to reveal his identity at the very beggining without trying to "mislead" and "trick" us for 50 issues.
    That's provided there isn't another curveball thrown in.

  4. #94
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    There certainly seems like something is wrong with Spencer's run. I think my big issue is that Spencer wants to do too much. Spider-Man is partially made up by the supporting cast. Yet when was the last time we saw Aunt May in the book?
    Mary-Jane takes a back seat in most arcs, even through she should be the main focus of the run. Spencer wants to do Kindred so he can retcon ideas froms OMD. That's an idea and a narrative pull. So we have a character who is our main antagonist, a narrative to draw us in, and a conclusion we want to get to. Okay, so you want to plant seeds for Kindred. Here's how you structure it.
    The first arc is actually great as it is. Introduce Kindred as a threatening menace.
    We have a mystery and a threat. Works out great.
    Have a few arcs, then have the meeting between Spider-Man and Kindred. Spider-man knows Kindred exists and that he is a threat. This also works out. Have a few more arcs with the threat of Kindred looming over the comic. Now have Kindred reveal himself as Harry. That should have been year one of the comic.
    Year two should have been centred around the relationship between Peter and MJ. It also needs to be about Kindred and Spider-Man having their next battle.
    Year two ends with that fight.
    Year three needs to be the aftermath. How do Peter and MJ move on from there? If we retcon OMD, do they get back together? Can they get back together?
    What comes of Harry?
    Instead we get the plot with Kingpin wanted the tablet of life, or we get Chameleon trolling Theresa and then explaining nothing. Or we get possible outcomes for the future. I get it's all connected, but it feels too bloated. Spider-man works best when it's a series of individual adventures with a soap opera forming the continuing narrative.
    I like the idea of Spider-man becoming a cooperate shill for Jonah. Keep that as a bit of comedic relief for a few arcs.
    I like the idea of Spider-man and Boomerang being flatmates. That's a neat idea to build the soap opera tension.
    Instead of focusing on one thing however, we get these odd tantrums that sometimes don't even lead anywhere.
    While I've enjoyed this run for the most part, I'm excited to see it's nearly over.

  5. #95
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    I've forgotten so much about this run so I went back and did a reread of it. I just finished the Gog origin story which I actually liked. Did we ever figure out why the Chameleon set up Norah and Threats and Menaces? I completely forgot about that.

  6. #96
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xpyred View Post
    I've forgotten so much about this run so I went back and did a reread of it. I just finished the Gog origin story which I actually liked. Did we ever figure out why the Chameleon set up Norah and Threats and Menaces? I completely forgot about that.
    It’s crazy to think I’ve forgotten more then I’ve learned with this run ....

    But yea, I feel the exact same way. There’s been a ton of forgettable material sprinkled through out Spencer’s run. As I’ve said before, a ton of potential that’s just never been realized in his run. I love the ideas but the implementation has left a lot to be desired.

  7. #97
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    People were a little down towards the end of JMS' run, they said they can't wait for BND as well, which lol worked out fine back then.

    I think Spencer's run will be valued better similar to how JMS' run is now acknowledged as a classic.

  8. #98
    Incredible Member RD155's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    People were a little down towards the end of JMS' run, they said they can't wait for BND as well, which lol worked out fine back then.

    I think Spencer's run will be valued better similar to how JMS' run is now acknowledged as a classic.
    Not sure if I would go as far as to say JMS run as a whole was classic. At least for me personally anyway since there were some themes that he was pushing that I wasn’t a fan of then and still not a fan today. That being said, I do fall into that category of people you are talking about because I look back at JMS run MUCH better then I did when I was actually reading it so I get what you’re saying.

    Time will tell if that happens with Spencer’s run and he still has a few issues to go to wrap things up. Not sure how cohesively everything is going to get wrapped up because I’m of the belief that his run is being cut short against his will.

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    ...JMS' run is now acknowledged as a classic
    ...by some. For a lot of people, he's responsible for three of the most reviled Spider-Man stories of all time.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    ...by some. For a lot of people, he's responsible for three of the most reviled Spider-Man stories of all time.
    I am certainly one of those. In order of hate: 1: OMD. 2: The Other. 3: Sins Past.

  11. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    ...by some.
    Prominent comics creators like Chip Zdarsky for instance:
    https://aiptcomics.com/2019/07/01/ch...nger-and-more/

    Also Donny Cates and other creators.

    It's been acknowledged as a classic by Matt Singer in "Marvel's Spider-Man: From Amazing to Spectacular" and by comicsverse over here:
    https://comicsverse.com/straczynski-amazing-spider-man/

    Classic stories like "Doomed Affairs" have started to be treated as iconic moments worth revisiting and commemorating as in "Cosmic Ghost Rider Destroys the Marvel Universe" #2.

  12. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Prominent comics creators like Chip Zdarsky for instance:
    https://aiptcomics.com/2019/07/01/ch...nger-and-more/

    Also Donny Cates and other creators.

    It's been acknowledged as a classic by Matt Singer in "Marvel's Spider-Man: From Amazing to Spectacular" and by comicsverse over here:
    https://comicsverse.com/straczynski-amazing-spider-man/

    Classic stories like "Doomed Affairs" have started to be treated as iconic moments worth revisiting and commemorating as in "Cosmic Ghost Rider Destroys the Marvel Universe" #2.
    You have a very loose definition of “classic” if “Doomed Affairs” makes the cut.

    But if you want citations, all of these lists include at least one, if not all three, of the above mentioned stories, including a shout out for the terribleness of “One More Day” by Black Panther & Captain America writer (and MacArthur Genius Grant Recipient) Ta-Nehisi Coates:
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.the...rticle/390702/

    https://screenrant.com/worst-spider-...ever-all-time/

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...n-stories/amp/

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbr...tory-canon/amp

    https://comicsalliance.com/the-worst...decade-part-2/

    Imagine having two of your stories not on the list of the worst Spider-Man stories, but the worst stories of the decade!

    So, feel free to pile the love on the JMS run—different strokes for different folks—but you can’t pretend he isn’t a divisive writer.

  13. #103
    Fantastic Member Dinosaur Hulk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Somecrazyaussie View Post
    That's provided there isn't another curveball thrown in.
    Highly doubt but I am happy to be proven wrong though.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFJamie94 View Post
    There certainly seems like something is wrong with Spencer's run. I think my big issue is that Spencer wants to do too much. Spider-Man is partially made up by the supporting cast. Yet when was the last time we saw Aunt May in the book?
    Mary-Jane takes a back seat in most arcs, even through she should be the main focus of the run. Spencer wants to do Kindred so he can retcon ideas froms OMD. That's an idea and a narrative pull. So we have a character who is our main antagonist, a narrative to draw us in, and a conclusion we want to get to. Okay, so you want to plant seeds for Kindred. Here's how you structure it.
    The first arc is actually great as it is. Introduce Kindred as a threatening menace.
    We have a mystery and a threat. Works out great.
    Have a few arcs, then have the meeting between Spider-Man and Kindred. Spider-man knows Kindred exists and that he is a threat. This also works out. Have a few more arcs with the threat of Kindred looming over the comic. Now have Kindred reveal himself as Harry. That should have been year one of the comic.
    Year two should have been centred around the relationship between Peter and MJ. It also needs to be about Kindred and Spider-Man having their next battle.
    Year two ends with that fight.
    Year three needs to be the aftermath. How do Peter and MJ move on from there? If we retcon OMD, do they get back together? Can they get back together?
    What comes of Harry?
    Instead we get the plot with Kingpin wanted the tablet of life, or we get Chameleon trolling Theresa and then explaining nothing. Or we get possible outcomes for the future. I get it's all connected, but it feels too bloated. Spider-man works best when it's a series of individual adventures with a soap opera forming the continuing narrative.
    I like the idea of Spider-man becoming a cooperate shill for Jonah. Keep that as a bit of comedic relief for a few arcs.
    I like the idea of Spider-man and Boomerang being flatmates. That's a neat idea to build the soap opera tension.
    Instead of focusing on one thing however, we get these odd tantrums that sometimes don't even lead anywhere.
    While I've enjoyed this run for the most part, I'm excited to see it's nearly over.
    I agree with this.
    The only hiccup is that it hinges on Spencer being committed to only 3 years. Let's say he wanted to stay for a fourth year, year two needed to end with Peter losing to Kindred. Then a rally in the third year with him finally overcoming Kindred. Then the fourth year is pretty much the aftermath.
    Kindred seems to be the big story Spencer wanted to tell. But he has had far too many plates spinning at the same time. Inevitably one or two of those plates are going to fall by the wayside.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinosaur Hulk View Post
    Highly doubt but I am happy to be proven wrong though.
    Well, we have one Harry who is Kindred, one who is locked up with Carlie and then we have the corpse in the latest issue of Amazing.

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