Characters You Don't Care For

[sunofdarkchild]

The thing with Tim Drake is it's been many years since he was a good character. He was one of DC's best during the 90s and I'd argue his solo was better than the main Batman books during that era. Then after Dixon left DC went about systematically destroying everything that made him a compelling character by killing off or writing out pretty much his entire supporting cast, especially his father, and turning him into a mini-Bruce. At least he still had his past to build on, but then the reboot happened and that was wiped out too, leaving just the boring, irrelevant mini-Bruce who only exists because DC can't seem to let go of any male Robin. He's been a shell of himself since 2004.

[Fergus]

The thing with Tim Drake is it's been many years since he was a good character. He was one of DC's best during the 90s and I'd argue his solo was better than the main Batman books during that era. Then after Dixon left DC went about systematically destroying everything that made him a compelling character by killing off or writing out pretty much his entire supporting cast, especially his father, and turning him into a mini-Bruce. At least he still had his past to build on, but then the reboot happened and that was wiped out too, leaving just the boring, irrelevant mini-Bruce who only exists because DC can't seem to let go of any male Robin. He's been a shell of himself since 2004.

Tim no longer being a 'good' character is not justification for his fans to lash out at other fans or create anti blogs for rival characters or character they perceive as getting more focus.

DC's various missed directions with Tim doesn't justify his fans being so hostile and hateful they feel the need to bash other characters/invite others to ridicule new characters.

Other characters have had their histories erased
Other characters have been derailed and written out of character not just Tim.

I get being upset when your fav is replaced, killed off, shelved or sidelined but that never happened to Tim.

Wally, Hal, John, Kyle fans I can sympathise with. They never got the level of consideration and effort that DC dedicated to trying to appease Tim fans.

DC tried over and over to revive or evolve the Tim character.

Red Robin - he was given a solo and elevated with an important role in Bruce's return. An attempt to elevate and graduate the character beyond Robin. The solo had decent sales I recall.

New 52 - Most characters had their history erased, others were erased.

New 52- Tim and his gen were positioned as the original founders of the TT.

New 52 - Terry was shelved and replaced with Tim as the Batman Beyond.

Yet Tim fans still complained and focused their hostility on Duke, Bruce's new partner in Snyder's run

Note Duke wasn't even replacing Tim since Damian was Robin

Rebirth - Jason was replaced by Tim as the 2nd lead character on Tynion's Rebirth Tec. DC's 2nd biggest selling ongoing. Helmed by a writer who at the time had 2 Tim Drake focused blogs. The idea was to fix Tim. He got his origin restored.


ReBirth - YJ was brought back with a big name writer and YJ was the face of Wonder comics. Promoted as the face of DC's young Imprint alongside Zoom and Ink.

Tim just went back to Robin alongside Damian. He is mostly restored to his Pre flashpoint characterisation though the recent reveal that he's now called Tim Wayne means that his folks are still dead. So Identity crisis era Tim.

Tim is mostly back to his old self yet the toxic behaviour still persists.

So NO the excuse of 'no longer a good character' is unacceptable.

More like some fans are just entitled and toxic behaviour in fandom [not just Tim Drake's fan base] has become normalised.

fandoms should be a welcoming place for lovers of comics regardless of who you stan.

[Nite-Wing]

The irony is that a lot of fans on the internet create the hate that surrounds specific characters
I absolutely can't stand Wally primarily because of how the discourse surrounding the character became very toxic when Wallace(in the comics) and Joe, and Iris became a black family(on CW flash) and seemed to become preeminent threats to Wally as a character going forward.

Now people want to say that Wally was never problematic but its been a pretty terrible decade and makes me forget about a lot of his flash run all things considered

This is happening to a lot of DC characters but I think Wally is the only one who has become irredeemable because of it for me so far

[Sacred Knight]

I think for me Amanda Waller best fits what's being asked for. I don't outright hate the character, I've never been given reason to outside of her being a villain. I've just never cared.

[lemonpeace]

smh it appears I struck a nerve with some people. while I have zero interest in elaborating on my observations of the intersection of toxic fans and racist fans (if you know you know *shrugs*), I do think I need to clarify one small thing (mostly for the mods) so I don't run the risk of getting banned again for getting too spicy. i've been on a good streak of not getting banned lately and I would like to keep it that way.

if his character were not nearly compelling enough to warrant the fervor, probably. the difference being Static is an interesting character that I enjoy reading and reading about, where as these characters are generally nothing particularly interesting narratively or culturally and they have very loud and toxic agitators among their fandom. in fact, it's interesting that you brought up Static, given the nature Milestone's inception, because one of the top things that pushed me away from these characters in particular was noticing the way said agitators within their fandoms regularly engaged in willfully ignorant, gaslight-y, thinly veiled racist gatekeeping toward any character of color (and their fans) that was perceived as a threat or seen as an affront to their particular fav. *shrugs* yeah, some fans can take the fun out of these characters; it's not a hard concept to grasp. there are worst and weaker justifications for not caring for characters ("there are too many [insert brand] characters" for example).

note I said there are agitators AMONG the fandoms, and said agitators engage in gaslight-y racist gatekeeping behavior. this is not a generalization, it's distinguishing a subsect within a larger group; literally the opposite of a generalization. yet notice how as soon as I said there are fans of these characters that engage in problematic racist behavior, see how quick it became about "harrumph, well I'm not racist" "wow he's saying we're all racist" and "well...well...there's more the racist in other fandoms actually". look bruh, if it don't apply to you then it don't apply. i ain't calling no one out, I ain't accusing nobody, I ain't make no generalization. like your favs, I do not care, but don't try and press me over me not caring for them or for why I don't care for them.

I've made my contribution to this thread, I'm skraight. peace.

[Ropeburn]

every characters created by Bendis ... here or at Marvel ... they seem forced and unatural

This. A thousand times this.

In the latest issue of Justice League the only shocking part was the team didn't make Naomi the leader. Most likely next arc.

[Dred]

smh it appears I struck a nerve with some people. while I have zero interest in elaborating on my observations of the intersection of toxic fans and racist fans (if you know you know *shrugs*), I do think I need to clarify one small thing (mostly for the mods) so I don't run the risk of getting banned again for getting too spicy. i've been on a good streak of not getting banned lately and I would like to keep it that way.



note I said there are agitators AMONG the fandoms, and said agitators engage in gaslight-y racist gatekeeping behavior. this is not a generalization, it's distinguishing a subsect within a larger group; literally the opposite of a generalization. yet notice how as soon as I said there are fans of these characters that engage in problematic racist behavior, see how quick it became about "harrumph, well I'm not racist" "wow he's saying we're all racist" and "well...well...there's more the racist in other fandoms actually". look bruh, if it don't apply to you then it don't apply. i ain't calling no one out, I ain't accusing nobody, I ain't make no generalization. like your favs, I do not care, but don't try and press me over me not caring for them or for why I don't care for them.

I've made my contribution to this thread, I'm skraight. peace.

You said the reason you dislike certain characters is they have racist fans (in direct response to me, obviously a fan). That's always, always, always going to make people who like those characters feel like they're being called racist. People who aren't racist don't want to be called racist, either, and that's a pretty acceptable feeling. An insult still hurts even if it's not true or applicable.

The irony is that a lot of fans on the internet create the hate that surrounds specific characters
I absolutely can't stand Wally primarily because of how the discourse surrounding the character became very toxic when Wallace(in the comics) and Joe, and Iris became a black family(on CW flash) and seemed to become preeminent threats to Wally as a character going forward.

Now people want to say that Wally was never problematic but its been a pretty terrible decade and makes me forget about a lot of his flash run all things considered

This is happening to a lot of DC characters but I think Wally is the only one who has become irredeemable because of it for me so far

That's an odd take. I honestly can't remember anyone caring about TV show Wally, either with hatred or interest. I suppose there had to be something because there always is, but it was such a foregone conclusion that Wally was going to be black in the show after they casted Iris. Couldn't remember any real outrage or surprise at the obvious change. The biggest complaints I remember were just how boring he was in the show.

Though the West family did get the general racist reaction that any race swap casting gets at the beginning, unfortunately. But Wally was a full year later after that nonsense faded and moved on to the next stupid thing for racists to be racist about. The worst is the "GINGERS ARE ALL BECOMING BLACK" thing where they keep showing Iris...a Brunette.

With comics Wally it was certainly an ongoing problematic fan reaction for...15ish years but, and this is now confirmed true, the company was actively mistreating the character and fans with express intention so it was at least founded outrage. What are the fans to do about that kind of treatment? Just go "Oh well, guess I'll no longer be a fan since DC will do nothing but mistreat the character!" ? Vitriol is the only practical response otherwise no one will think the stuff Didio was doing was as bad as it was. Even voting with your wallet didn't matter when it came to Wally back then.

[TheKryptonMan]

I liked it when the Batman family was Bruce, Nightwing (Dick), Alfred, Jim Gordon, Robin (Tim Drake), and Oracle (Barbara).

Anyone else is unnecessary IMO.

Also no need for Jon Kent

I have to say that I agree 100% .

[John Venus]

John Constantine

Damian Wayne

Hal Jordan

Harley Quinn (I must be the only guy who came out of B:TAS liking Poison Ivy, Catwoman and Batgirl more)

Legion of Superheroes

Geoforce

Metamorpho

[achilles]

John Constantine

Damian Wayne

Hal Jordan

Harley Quinn (I must be the only guy who came out of B:TAS liking Poison Ivy, Catwoman and Batgirl more)

Legion of Superheroes

Geoforce

Metamorpho

For me, the most horrible thing about Harley is her vast overexposure, with DC and WB assuming people just love her that much. I have a suspicion that she really isn't as popular as DC and WB think. Of course Harley offends on many other levels as well.

[Fergus]

For me, the most horrible thing about Harley is her vast overexposure, with DC and WB assuming people just love her that much. I have a suspicion that she really isn't as popular as DC and WB think. Of course Harley offends on many other levels as well.

I find it puzzling that you believe that Dc and WB make assumptions about how popular a character they own is.

DC and WB know to the cent just how popular Harley is hence why they put out content to meet demand.

They have the sales figures for everything Harley related that's been sold legally. So they know. We the fans make assumptions.

[SiegePerilous02]

Classic DCAU Harley is the best character to come out of DC in the 90s.

But of course, "Too Much of a Good Thing" set in and this weird obnoxious thing they've turned her into keeps getting shoved down our throats. But she sells, so I guess we're stuck with her.

[skyvolt2000]

Classic DCAU Harley is the best character to come out of DC in the 90s.

But of course, "Too Much of a Good Thing" set in and this weird obnoxious thing they've turned her into keeps getting shoved down our throats. But she sells, so I guess we're stuck with her.

There is something called quality control. Something many seem to forget.

She is not really shoved in our faces that much. If you go outside of a comic book store. Excluding those two movies and some DC Super Hero Girls stuff-I really don't see her. Unlike Batman.

It's the comic book side that does it more than anyone else.

She gets chance after chance after chance unlike others who don't on the comic book side. And as long as comic book store don't mind herm Batman, X-Men and others packing clearance bins and grab bags because they won't stop over ordering the stuff-that is not on fans.

Because the folks who support her are going to buy the stuff. Not fans fault she and others leave a large pile of unsold stuff in their wake.

[John Venus]

For me, the most horrible thing about Harley is her vast overexposure, with DC and WB assuming people just love her that much. I have a suspicion that she really isn't as popular as DC and WB think. Of course Harley offends on many other levels as well.

It's been WB/DC's modus operandi for a long time. If it works, then run in to the ground until the next thing comes along. They have absolutely no strategy or co-ordination beyond throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

[Lightning Rider]

I don't really get the love for Booster & Blue Beetle, though that's probably because I haven't read their best stuff yet.

I'm pretty indifferent to Simon Baz. Jessica to a lesser extent.

Only read a little of Duke but was relatively indifferent.

NuWally seems a little redundant to me now.