Rumblers League Round 3: Stigmazilla vs Jcogginsa

[Darth Drizzle]

Here we go!

Voting and debate rules:

- To avoid mass unreadable debate, each participant is allowed 8 posts to make their argument in their matches.
- Each match is open for discussion for 72 hours.
- Once all match discussions are over, vote threads will be posted on Thursday with polls (we have special dispensation from the board to allow polls). These will last for two days.

Team Stigmazilla
Jasmine (Buffyverse) 10 w/ Exposure to Radioactive Sand (Raimi Spider-Man Movies) 5 w/ Gamma blood injection(MCU) 7
Puddle Jumper with ATA gene (Stargate Atlantis) 5 w/Vibranium Armour Plating (MCU) 7
Professor X (X-Men Movies: Old) 8
Magneto (X-Men Movies: Old) 8
Zoom (Flash TV Series) 9 w/Saint of Killer's Guns (Preacher) 6, Muppet Lab's Copier ala Carte (Muppet Show) 9
Lord Zedd (MMPR) 7w/Barbara Minerva's First Wish (DCEU) 9
Hiro Nakamura (Heroes) 7 w/ Silver Samurai (The Wolverine) 4
Serpentera (MMPR) 10 w/All Spark, Converted (Transformers Movies) 4, Cyborg Modification (DCEU) 7, Exposure to Comet (Maximum Overdrive) 3

Team Jcogginsa
Jean Grey (X-Men Movies - Young) 10 + Shocked by Genetically Altered Eels (The Amazing Spider-Man 2) 7 Staff of Devosynn, The (Buffyverse) 2


Flash (DCEU) 9 + Mimetic Polyalloy Upgrade (Terminator Genysis) 6 + Terrigenesis upgrade, Joey Gutierrez (MCU) 4 + Medusa's Head w/ Bag (Clash of the Titans Original) 9 + Kungai Demon's Tak Horn (Buffyverse) 2


Cyborg (DCEU) 7 + Mutari Generator, The (Buffyverse) 3 + Protection Amulet (Charmed) 5 + Terrigenesis upgrade, Yo-Yo (MCU) 5 +Sarcophagus Crystal (Buffyverse) 2

Adam Monroe (Heroes) 2 + Draconian Katra (Buffyverse) 2+ Neuralyzer (Men in Black) 6

Hal Jordan (Green Lantern Movie) 9 + Band of Blacknil (Buffyverse) 2

Ares (DCEU) 8 + Soul Stone, The (MCU) 4 + Power-Sucking Athame (Charmed) 6
Godzilla (Final Wars) 10

[Darth Drizzle]

Stigmazillas Stratagy

Professor X: plays defence against Jean, and mind links with Jasmine., Jean will most certainly try to combat him mentally, and with Jasmine, already in his head, and him part of the body Jasmine, she's setting herself up to be controlled.

Jasmine: orders everyone to serve her to the best of their abilities, including Xavier. Her voice has been transmitted over the television, so being transmitted via Xavier is easy for her.

Magneto: braces the Puddle Jumper with his Magnetism, and defends it. He will also crush the enemy team with his magnetism, starting with Cyborg.

Puddle Jumper: cloaks and flies up into the air. It will fly evasivly, and fire drones at the enemy team if needed.

Serpentera: Sparks, the Puddle Jumper, and flies towards the enemy team, and nukes the other team with its energy attacks, focusing on Hal Jordan. It can easily crush Hal, and would over power him easily. The AOE of his attack would hit Adam Munroe as well, and all of the enemy team. If Zoom, can't take down Flash for some reason then it will keep destroying Titan, until

Zoom: runs himself through the copier, and then takes out Flash, by smashing his fist through his chest, or by using his decay powers on him, as well as using his guns. They will shoot the enemy team members, including Godzilla (if he isn't already controlled).

Lord Zedd: teleports into Serpentera, and then from there starts teleporting enemies starting with Cyborg to the moon. He will also make members of his own team giant if needed, he can also take control of Godzilla, and make him serve our team.

Hiro: slows time, and teleports to the enemy team, and cuts Ares in half, then will cut Cyborg apart, as well as the other members of the team.

[Darth Drizzle]

Jcogginsa Stratagy

At the Bell, Cyborg will rush over to JEan Grey and Clasp Hands with her, in a manner that ensures both will be touching the Sarcophagus crystals. She will then transform into electricity and entre his systems, after which she will Mentally dominate Zoom, and command him to attack his own team mates, starting with Hiro Nakamura, then Jasmine, then Serpentera, then Magneto and Xavier, then himself. Zoom will not attack anything that has been taken over by my team, except himself.

While she is psychically dominating the others, Cyborg will technopathically access the Puddle Jumper and make it hover in place uncloaked, in Godzilla's line of sight.

Godzilla will blast the Puddle Jumper with his atomic breath, killing Xavier and Magneto.

The Flash ramp up to Light Speed, then use his metallic control to melt the vibranium plating off the puddle jumper, before Godzilla blasts it. He will then go to various combatants, and show them Medusa's head. His order will be Xavier, Magneto, Lord Zedd, Hiro Nakamura, Zoom, Serpentera, and Jasmine. Skipping over any that have been converted to his side.

The Soul Stone has the ability to give it's wielder information about their opponents. Ares will use this power to learn Jasmine's True Name, and tell it to Hal, who will then create a speaker broadcasting said name loud enough for the entire battlefield to hear it. Hal, Ares, and Adam will then go on the offensive, aiming to find Jasmine, upon which time Adam will use his Neuralyzer to take away her memories, thus sealing away her powers. If necessary, Hal will create shades for each other them, in order to protect them from the Neuralyzer. Ares will battle Jasmine, aiming to take her soul with the Soul Stone or Athame.

Regardless of outcome, Hal will take Adam to Serpentera, using their smaller size to sneak close and find a spot they can stand on, whereupon Adam will use the Draconian Katra to switch bodies with Serpentera. Hal will help defend him and keep him stable to ensure the change goes through. Afterward, Hal will gather all of my team up in a bubble, and take them to safety while Serpentera blows up the planet.

General responses: The characters will do these things as fall backs, if the above plans fail to go off, or if the opportunity presents itself

Cyborg will attempt to telepathically control Serpentera.

Once she has Zoom under her control, Jean will attempt to mentally shutdown anyone she can safely do so with.

Godzilla, if safely able, will direct his atomic breath at any enemy it sees, save Serpentera unless Serpentera attacks him.

If a team member notices another in trouble, and can help without compromising the entire team, they will do so.

[Darth Drizzle]

Anyone? Anybody? Bueller? Bueller?

[Stigmazilla]

Jcogginsa Stratagy

At the Bell, Cyborg will rush over to JEan Grey and Clasp Hands with her, in a manner that ensures both will be touching the Sarcophagus crystals. She will then transform into electricity and entre his systems, after which she will Mentally dominate Zoom, and command him to attack his own team mates, starting with Hiro Nakamura, then Jasmine, then Serpentera, then Magneto and Xavier, then himself. Zoom will not attack anything that has been taken over by my team, except himself. so.

While she is psychically dominating the others, Cyborg will technopathically access the Puddle Jumper and make it hover in place uncloaked, in Godzilla's line of sight.
so.

Her contacting Jasmine and Xavier will directly expose herself to Jasmine's power. The Puddle Jumper will be invisible and in space by this point as well.

Godzilla will blast the Puddle Jumper with his atomic breath, killing Xavier and Magneto.

Its an invisible fast ship, in the sky. Its Vibranium plating would also defend it.

The Flash ramp up to Light Speed, then use his metallic control to melt the vibranium plating off the puddle jumper, before Godzilla blasts it. He will then go to various combatants, and show them Medusa's head. His order will be Xavier, Magneto, Lord Zedd, Hiro Nakamura, Zoom, Serpentera, and Jasmine. Skipping over any that have been converted to his side.

He's going to searching a very long time for the invisible ship, and heading directly for Jasmine. Stopping to show people Medusa's Head also opens himself right up for attacks, and Zoom is also going to take down while he tries to find the jumper

The Soul Stone has the ability to give it's wielder information about their opponents. Ares will use this power to learn Jasmine's True Name, and tell it to Hal, who will then create a speaker broadcasting said name loud enough for the entire battlefield to hear it. Hal, Ares, and Adam will then go on the offensive, aiming to find Jasmine, upon which time Adam will use his Neuralyzer to take away her memories, thus sealing away her powers. If necessary, Hal will create shades for each other them, in order to protect them from the Neuralyzer. Ares will battle Jasmine, aiming to take her soul with the Soul Stone or Athame.

When did the Soul Stone do anything like find a long forgotten name? Adam's also hilariously slow here having to jog all the way to my team.

Regardless of outcome, Hal will take Adam to Serpentera, using their smaller size to sneak close and find a spot they can stand on, whereupon Adam will use the Draconian Katra to switch bodies with Serpentera. Hal will help defend him and keep him stable to ensure the change goes through. Afterward, Hal will gather all of my team up in a bubble, and take them to safety while Serpentera blows up the planet.

Considering the Serpentera is blasting Hal here, he's not sneaking anywhere. Its also moving so standing on it is a bad idea. Has the Katra ever switched with a cybernetic being?

General responses: The characters will do these things as fall backs, if the above plans fail to go off, or if the opportunity presents itself

Cyborg will attempt to telepathically control Serpentera.

Considering Serpentera also has Cyborg's technopathy plus the All Spark thats going to be hard, to say the least.

Once she has Zoom under her control, Jean will attempt to mentally shutdown anyone she can safely do so with.

Charles, and Jasmine have Jean's number at the start.

Godzilla, if safely able, will direct his atomic breath at any enemy it sees, save Serpentera unless Serpentera attacks him.

He's looking for an invisible ship.

Lord Zedd, and Hiro are barely targeted here. Nothing is stopping Serpentera. Xavier/Jasmine are free to take down Jean. Several members of Jcog's team spend most of their time looking for an invisible ship, thats flying quickly over their heads.

[Jcogginsa]

Her contacting Jasmine and Xavier will directly expose herself to Jasmine's power. The Puddle Jumper will be invisible and in space by this point as well.





Its an invisible fast ship, in the sky. Its Vibranium plating would also defend it.




He's going to searching a very long time for the invisible ship, and heading directly for Jasmine. Stopping to show people Medusa's Head also opens himself right up for attacks, and Zoom is also going to take down while he tries to find the jumper





When did the Soul Stone do anything like find a long forgotten name? Adam's also hilariously slow here having to jog all the way to my team.




Considering the Serpentera is blasting Hal here, he's not sneaking anywhere. Its also moving so standing on it is a bad idea. Has the Katra ever switched with a cybernetic being?



Considering Serpentera also has Cyborg's technopathy plus the All Spark thats going to be hard, to say the least.



Charles, and Jasmine have Jean's number at the start.



He's looking for an invisible ship.

Lord Zedd, and Hiro are barely targeted here. Nothing is stopping Serpentera. Xavier/Jasmine are free to take down Jean. Several members of Jcog's team spend most of their time looking for an invisible ship, thats flying quickly over their heads.

Rebuttals

1. Jean isn't contacting Xavier or Jasmine though. She's contacting Zoom. Furthermore, according to the Buffy Wiki, Jasmine's powers work via sight and hearing. Jean is not looking at Jasmine, nor listening to her. Her power might work through television, but television is still sight and sound. By this point, she is in the form of electricity, and thus has no ears or eyes to perceive Jasmine with, so she's not susceptible to her power

2. The puddle Jumper has computers, which Cyborg can access from long range. So the cloak's gonna be turned off, and the puddle jumper will be floating in plainview of Godzilla. And it's Vibranium plating would have been removed by the Flash. Furthermore, Jasmine is the last on his list of targets, and most likely to be taken out by the time Barry would go for her. Plus Zoom is on my side by that point thanks to Jean's psychic domination. And nothing about the Medusa head's Use would require Barry to stay still long enough to be hit

3. According to Word of God, Thanos used the Soul Stone to gain understanding of the heroes he fought on Titan. That same ability should make finding a name fairly easy. And Adam can be carried by Hal, they're travelling as a group

4. Serpentera is incredibly large, and Hal is smaller than a fly in comparison. Targeting Hal will be very dificult, especially since he's not starting in the sky.

5. Your strategy very explicitly says that Xavier plays defense against Jean, he doesn't go on the offensive, and Jean never attacks him. He'll be waiting for Jean's attack, and then be killed by either Zoom or Barry before anything like that comes. Plus as stated, Jasmine's powers are audiovisual in nature. Telepathy isn't going to trigger them. Even if he did try to actively attack her, Jean is powerful enough to dominate Apocalypse, who dominated Xavier, and she's under no obligation to engage in the battle in the center of the mind style mental fight that Apocalypse and Xavier had, and that's the only kind of mental combat that Jasmine's powers even have an argument for working through.

Also, Jasmine has to verbally command Xavier before he does his mindlink thing, and Zoom's gonna be under Jean's control by then.

6. The invisible ship has had it's invisibility turned off and it's armor plating melted off, as well as both it's pilots killed. It's a ship, it needs to take off and actively cloak itself. Plus, your strategy has it sparked by Serpentera. Literally the biggest object on the island. It's position will have been very blatantly telegraphed by the attempt to spark it, and the Ship is being targeted by two different speedsters. It's not gonna be an issue.

Hiro Nakamura will be the first one dead at Zoom's hands, because his timestop doesn't work on people who can move at Lightspeed. Serpentera is also taken out by the Zoom, and Zedd is targeted by the Flash. Both are also safely capable of being mentally shut down by Jean

Points of my own
1. The copier is sized for a Muppet, and Zoom is a very large man. He can't fit inside the thing.

2. The All Spark does not have infinite range, and it starts in Serpentera's possession. Serpy attempting to spark the puddle jumper is unlikely to go well, since the human sized All Spark would be smaller than a gran of sand to it, and the big one would be absolutely miniscule in comparison. It's very unlikely that Serpentera has the dexterity required to Spark anything else. Or the intelligence, since most of the sparked machines behaving very wildly and animalistically

3. Once Sparked by the All Spark, Serpentera is not longer a ship that Zedd can control at will, and it has most likely transformed into a Bayverse cybertronian. Zedd probably gets crushed by the thing when the Cockpit he teleports into starts shifting around and rearranging. Even if he doesn't, He's going to have to communicate his intent to Serpentera, who is effectively a wild animal and being hijacked by a powerful technopath. All of that amounts to his plan being seriously delayed until the point where it never goes off

4. Hiro, even with the Silver Samurai armor, doesn't have the stats to hurt Ares. And Cyborg is both immune to Hiro's time shenanigans and a powerful technopath. Literally the worst possible match up you could pick for Hiro

5. Magneto needs to concentrate to find metal, which will compromise his efforts at defense.

[Stigmazilla]

Rebuttals

1. Jean isn't contacting Xavier or Jasmine though. She's contacting Zoom. Furthermore, according to the Buffy Wiki, Jasmine's powers work via sight and hearing. Jean is not looking at Jasmine, nor listening to her. Her power might work through television, but television is still sight and sound. By this point, she is in the form of electricity, and thus has no ears or eyes to perceive Jasmine with, so she's not susceptible to her power .

Jean is later on in your strat physically dominating the others including Jasmine. Xavier will contact Jean, he's playing defensively not sitting around. Electro was able to perceive things as electricity; how else was he able to see where he was going. Also Jean is still able to use are according to your own strat so Xavier Telepathically inputting Jasmine into Jean is still on the table.

2. The puddle Jumper has computers, which Cyborg can access from long range. So the cloak's gonna be turned off, and the puddle jumper will be floating in plainview of Godzilla. And it's Vibranium plating would have been removed by the Flash. Furthermore, Jasmine is the last on his list of targets, and most likely to be taken out by the time Barry would go for her. Plus Zoom is on my side by that point thanks to Jean's psychic domination. And nothing about the Medusa head's Use would require Barry to stay still long enough to be hit

Cyborg's not effortlessly hacking an alien ship. He literally has to hard wire into Batman's spider ship. Serpentera is also nuking that entire side of the field including Cyborg. Barry has stop for at least a second for people to see and perceive Medusa's Head. Flash also isn't over powering Magneto's magnetism.

3. According to Word of God, Thanos used the Soul Stone to gain understanding of the heroes he fought on Titan. That same ability should make finding a name fairly easy. And Adam can be carried by Hal, they're travelling as a group

That's an incredibly nebulous claim, and I don't see Adam a regular guy being able to use a cosmic stone with any skill. Especially not while flying through the air, and being anihlated by Serpentera.

4. Serpentera is incredibly large, and Hal is smaller than a fly in comparison. Targeting Hal will be very dificult, especially since he's not starting in the sky.

Serpentera is still directly targeting Hal and explicitly firing at him, a green shiny man who is similarly flying towards Serpentera. Also no idea how Adam plans on landing on Serpentera, or body switching a robot.

5. Your strategy very explicitly says that Xavier plays defense against Jean, he doesn't go on the offensive, and Jean never attacks him. He'll be waiting for Jean's attack, and then be killed by either Zoom or Barry before anything like that comes. Plus as stated, Jasmine's powers are audiovisual in nature. Telepathy isn't going to trigger them. Even if he did try to actively attack her, Jean is powerful enough to dominate Apocalypse, who dominated Xavier, and she's under no obligation to engage in the battle in the center of the mind style mental fight that Apocalypse and Xavier had, and that's the only kind of mental combat that Jasmine's powers even have an argument for working through.

Making people hear voices is very basic telepathy. If hearing a voice on the radio is enough to control someone, then mentally beaming that voice and presence into your head should be more then enough. Also different Xavier here then that fight.

Also, Jasmine has to verbally command Xavier before he does his mindlink thing, and Zoom's gonna be under Jean's control by then.

Not really, Xavier just has to mind link them.

6. The invisible ship has had it's invisibility turned off and it's armor plating melted off, as well as both it's pilots killed. It's a ship, it needs to take off and actively cloak itself. Plus, your strategy has it sparked by Serpentera. Literally the biggest object on the island. It's position will have been very blatantly telegraphed by the attempt to spark it, and the Ship is being targeted by two different speedsters. It's not gonna be an issue.

Cyborg's not getting the invisibility off, and Flash most certainly isn't beating Magneto at magnetism. Sparking an object isn't going to give it away Serpentera just has to blast spark energy in its direction at the bell.

Hiro Nakamura will be the first one dead at Zoom's hands, because his timestop doesn't work on people who can move at Lightspeed. Serpentera is also taken out by the Zoom, and Zedd is targeted by the Flash. Both are also safely capable of being mentally shut down by Jean

Zoom isn't being taken over and has more then enough time to fight Flash, while Jean is mentally controlled, especially because Flash, is looking for an invisible ship and stopping around to show people his snake head.

Points of my own
1. The copier is sized for a Muppet, and Zoom is a very large man. He can't fit inside the thing.

Items are regularly upsized to fit bigger characters in the League. Its not like I'm trying to put Godzilla through it.

2. The All Spark does not have infinite range, and it starts in Serpentera's possession. Serpy attempting to spark the puddle jumper is unlikely to go well, since the human sized All Spark would be smaller than a gran of sand to it, and the big one would be absolutely miniscule in comparison. It's very unlikely that Serpentera has the dexterity required to Spark anything else. Or the intelligence, since most of the sparked machines behaving very wildly and animalistically

Serpentera is also made sentient by the Maximum overdrive exposure, which made trucks smart enough to barter for gas. The Cyborg Technopathy will make sparking things easy as well.

3. Once Sparked by the All Spark, Serpentera is not longer a ship that Zedd can control at will, and it has most likely transformed into a Bayverse cybertronian. Zedd probably gets crushed by the thing when the Cockpit he teleports into starts shifting around and rearranging. Even if he doesn't, He's going to have to communicate his intent to Serpentera, who is effectively a wild animal and being hijacked by a powerful technopath. All of that amounts to his plan being seriously delayed until the point where it never goes off

Its not even close to wild animal its controlled by the Maximum Overdrive exposure. I never have it transforming either. Also as a member of my team I control it. If I had a bear on my team I'd control that as well.

4. Hiro, even with the Silver Samurai armor, doesn't have the stats to hurt Ares. And Cyborg is both immune to Hiro's time shenanigans and a powerful technopath. Literally the worst possible match up you could pick for Hiro

How is Cyborg is immune to time being slowed? Considering the Silver Samurai cut Adamantium it can cut Ares.

5. Magneto needs to concentrate to find metal, which will compromise his efforts at defense

He's not going to drop his defences if he needs them to attack Cyborg. But considering the ship will be invisible and in the sky he shouldn't need to work to hard on that anyway.

[The MunchKING]

Has the Katra ever switched with a cybernetic being?

It literally has one feat, Buffy/Faith switch. two (mostly) human girls of roughly the same size and physical build.

There's LOTS of stuff that effects how well other fictional body swaps work that may or may not have anything to do with the Katra. We just don't know. IIRC we never even get Giles giving a plot-exposition about it.

[Jcogginsa]

Jean is later on in your strat physically dominating the others including Jasmine. Xavier will contact Jean, he's playing defensively not sitting around. Electro was able to perceive things as electricity; how else was he able to see where he was going. Also Jean is still able to use are according to your own strat so Xavier Telepathically inputting Jasmine into Jean is still on the table.



Cyborg's not effortlessly hacking an alien ship. He literally has to hard wire into Batman's spider ship. Serpentera is also nuking that entire side of the field including Cyborg. Barry has stop for at least a second for people to see and perceive Medusa's Head. Flash also isn't over powering Magneto's magnetism.



That's an incredibly nebulous claim, and I don't see Adam a regular guy being able to use a cosmic stone with any skill. Especially not while flying through the air, and being anihlated by Serpentera.




Serpentera is still directly targeting Hal and explicitly firing at him, a green shiny man who is similarly flying towards Serpentera. Also no idea how Adam plans on landing on Serpentera, or body switching a robot.




Making people hear voices is very basic telepathy. If hearing a voice on the radio is enough to control someone, then mentally beaming that voice and presence into your head should be more then enough. Also different Xavier here then that fight.



Not really, Xavier just has to mind link them.



Cyborg's not getting the invisibility off, and Flash most certainly isn't beating Magneto at magnetism. Sparking an object isn't going to give it away Serpentera just has to blast spark energy in its direction at the bell.




Zoom isn't being taken over and has more then enough time to fight Flash, while Jean is mentally controlled, especially because Flash, is looking for an invisible ship and stopping around to show people his snake head.



Items are regularly upsized to fit bigger characters in the League. Its not like I'm trying to put Godzilla through it.



Serpentera is also made sentient by the Maximum overdrive exposure, which made trucks smart enough to barter for gas. The Cyborg Technopathy will make sparking things easy as well.



Its not even close to wild animal its controlled by the Maximum Overdrive exposure. I never have it transforming either. Also as a member of my team I control it. If I had a bear on my team I'd control that as well.



How is Cyborg is immune to time being slowed? Considering the Silver Samurai cut Adamantium it can cut Ares.


He's not going to drop his defences if he needs them to attack Cyborg. But considering the ship will be invisible and in the sky he shouldn't need to work to hard on that anyway.

1. The strat specifies that Jean only mentally dominates people if needed
2. Cyborg can completely control the Stockmarket and bypass all of it's digital defenses from the comfortability of his house. Physically interesting with Batman's ship was probably more preference than need. And no, Serpentera does not Nuke the field until after it sparks the Puddle Jumper, which is going to take a few seconds
3. No, Barry doesn't have to stop in order to use the Medusa head, the Medusa head has to stop. Barry can hold the Medusa head up to an opponent's eyes , then move away long enough for the head to work, then go back and get the head before it even hits the ground.
4. Adam does use the stone. Ares does. And Serpentera will have been neutralyzed long before he has a change to nuke Adam
5. Hal is faster than Serpentera, and Serpentera has no feats of having exceptional aim. Also, Serpentera so big that there will be ample space for Adam to stand on him. One of Serpentera's toes is the size of an entire Zord. Furthermore, the Serpentera is now alive thanks to the All spark, and that should be sufficient for the Katra to work.


6. Wrong, a sound being broadcast over the radio is still travelling like conventional sounds does, through vibration. Whereas a sound in someone's head is not. Radios and telepathy are not comparable. And Old Xavier is still weaker than Jean
7. Gonna be hard to Mind Link with a superior Telepath while being Dead several times over.
8. The All spark doesn't have the range to blast that far. And Cyborg's gonna make sure the invisibility doesn't turn on in the first place. Plus, the Flash can get the ship before it turns invisible
9. Yes, Zoom is being taken over, because your own strat delays the Mind Link for more than enough time for his mind to be taken over,
10. Citation on items being upsized?
11. Fair enough on the maximum overdrive intelligence. Also, you don't address the size of the All Spark. Even the giant mode from the movies is still gonna be a grain of sand in comparison to Serpentera.
12. The transformation automatically happens as a result of being sparked
13. Cyborg has the sarcophagus crystals that protect from time manipulation, and Ares is very tough. How strong is movie verse adamantium? Not that it really matters, since Hero is getting killed by Zoom
14. He needs to drop his defenses in order to find Cyborg