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  1. #1
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Default Should Damian Wayne Have Stayed Dead?

    I'm not a Damian hater, I love the little bastard, but Grant Morrison's New 52 Batman Incorporated was such a perfect swan song for the character that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that DC brought him back so soon.

  2. #2
    Invincible Member MajorHoy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    I'm not a Damian hater, I love the little bastard, but Grant Morrison's New 52 Batman Incorporated was such a perfect swan song for the character that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that DC brought him back so soon.
    I don't necessarily mind Damian being alive again.

    Now Jason, on the other hand, maybe didn't deserve to die in the first place, but I sometimes wonder if he would have been better off staying dead considering how long it was before they revived him.
    (Also the initial how they revived him is a point of contention with me . . . )

  3. #3
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MajorHoy View Post
    I don't necessarily mind Damian being alive again.

    Now Jason, on the other hand, maybe didn't deserve to die in the first place, but I sometimes wonder if he would have been better off staying dead considering how long it was before they revived him.
    (Also the initial how they revived him is a point of contention with me . . . )
    I have to agree with you on this one.

  4. #4
    Astonishing Member HsssH's Avatar
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    I agree that maybe he should have returned later and in a better story than what Tomasi delivered.

  5. #5
    Extraordinary Member dietrich's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    I'm not a Damian hater, I love the little bastard, but Grant Morrison's New 52 Batman Incorporated was such a perfect swan song for the character that it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that DC brought him back so soon.
    Tim you seem to enjoy starting threads designed to stir up fans huh?
    Yesterday it was Character's You Don't Care For.

    Batman Incorporated #8 was imo Damian's finest moment.

    Died a hero, showing zero fear facing down his past while protecting others.

    Don't think he was brought back too soon.

    Damian Wayne got me reading comics, sadly he was dead at the time when I bought my very 1st comic [Morrison's Batman and Robin] shortly after Son if Batman was released.

    I was hooked. I needed more stories with the kid so glad he came back so soon.

  6. #6
    I'm at least a C-Lister! exile001's Avatar
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    I get this is my issue and don't begrudge anyone who feels different but I dislike Bruce having an actual son. Something about it just doesn't work for me, what with Bruce's core being about the loss of one family and building a surrogate one around himself.

    That and the awful "surprise hidden 10 year old son!" introduction complete with Talia heel turn and corruption of her entire character to that point. I've never warmed to him. Morrison wrote a pretty satisfying end to Damian and evil Talia's story, so should have left it with that.

    Tomasi's resurrection arc was pure garbage, and I was half wonder if it was a rejected Superman pitch to power up Jon.

    Nothing since his return has really sold me on the character, either. I feel he's in a bit of a holding pattern of the same character arc over and over.

    That said, I have been enjoying the latest Robin title (I like Williamson's work and was stoked for Connor Hawke's return) so maybe there's hope for the little guy.
    Just. Be. Nice.

  7. #7
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    He shouldn't been killed in the first place, imo. I get, that they let Morrison do whatever he planned from the beginning, but at that point it was completely obvious, that he won't stay dead, I think even Morrison knew that. Eventually it turned out to be just another cheap drama, which was eventually reversed. Although, it was a great send-off, and also that wordless B&R issue, it was incredibly strong.

  8. #8
    Anyone. Anywhere.Anytime. Arsenal's Avatar
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    The only characters who should stay dead are the characters who were created to die (ie the Uncle Bens, the Wayne’s, etc). The kind of character whose more of an idea than an actual person.

  9. #9
    Mighty Member Timothy Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    I get this is my issue and don't begrudge anyone who feels different but I dislike Bruce having an actual son. Something about it just doesn't work for me, what with Bruce's core being about the loss of one family and building a surrogate one around himself.

    That and the awful "surprise hidden 10 year old son!" introduction complete with Talia heel turn and corruption of her entire character to that point. I've never warmed to him. Morrison wrote a pretty satisfying end to Damian and evil Talia's story, so should have left it with that.

    Tomasi's resurrection arc was pure garbage, and I was half wonder if it was a rejected Superman pitch to power up Jon.

    Nothing since his return has really sold me on the character, either. I feel he's in a bit of a holding pattern of the same character arc over and over.

    That said, I have been enjoying the latest Robin title (I like Williamson's work and was stoked for Connor Hawke's return) so maybe there's hope for the little guy.
    As much as I loved Morrison's Batman, Talia's turn from sympathetic femme fatale to remorseless leader of a terrorist group didn't make any sense.

  10. #10
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exile001 View Post
    I get this is my issue and don't begrudge anyone who feels different but I dislike Bruce having an actual son. Something about it just doesn't work for me, what with Bruce's core being about the loss of one family and building a surrogate one around himself.

    That and the awful "surprise hidden 10 year old son!" introduction complete with Talia heel turn and corruption of her entire character to that point. I've never warmed to him. Morrison wrote a pretty satisfying end to Damian and evil Talia's story, so should have left it with that.

    [b]Tomasi's resurrection arc was pure garbage, and I was half wonder if it was a rejected Superman pitch to power up Jon. [b]

    Nothing since his return has really sold me on the character, either. I feel he's in a bit of a holding pattern of the same character arc over and over.

    That said, I have been enjoying the latest Robin title (I like Williamson's work and was stoked for Connor Hawke's return) so maybe there's hope for the little guy.
    A Sumperman pitch that Tomasi wrote and got rejected years before Jon was ever created.

    Logical.

    Other way around.

    Tomasi's work on and the success of Batman and Robin and the Resurrection arc Robin Rises was what got him the job on Superman and the inspiration for his Rebirth Superman with Gleason [his partner on Batman and robin and Robin Rises]

    Rebirth Superman is an exploration of Superman as a father with his 10 yr old son. Superdad less superhero.

    Batman and Robin was an exploration of batman as a father. Parenting and getting to know his 10 year old son. Not a standard dynamic duo team up book.

    The more you know.

  11. #11
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timothy Hunter View Post
    As much as I loved Morrison's Batman, Talia's turn from sympathetic femme fatale to remorseless leader of a terrorist group didn't make any sense.
    I liked it. For the 1st time talia had agency. She wasn't a pun or a honeypot for Ra's to use to lure Batman.

    The exotic/foreign beauty desperate for the love of the white man who is good and just and can not be swayed by the amoral foreigner.

    None of that vapid 'Beloved' nonsense.

    Morrison's Talia while still a negative stereotype at least had agency, was pretty badass and was far more interesting.

    She was powerful. She defeated Batman.

    As a love interest, Talia had limited scope. As a villain she has a lot of potential as we see with her increased use across the DCU.

    Her dynamic with bruce is made even better with the addition of Damian. Complicated and juicer [so to speak]

  12. #12
    Mighty Member marvelprince's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The only characters who should stay dead are the characters who were created to die (ie the Uncle Bens, the Wayne’s, etc). The kind of character whose more of an idea than an actual person.
    To be fair then Damian would fit the Bill as Morisson had always intended to kill him.

  13. #13
    Astonishing Member Fergus's Avatar
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    No Damian shouldn't have stayed dead. He's one of the most interesting additions to the DCU in recent times.

    Agree that he shouldn't have been killed in the 1st place.

  14. #14
    Mighty Member Bat-Meal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgoth View Post
    He shouldn't been killed in the first place, imo. I get, that they let Morrison do whatever he planned from the beginning, but at that point it was completely obvious, that he won't stay dead, I think even Morrison knew that. Eventually it turned out to be just another cheap drama, which was eventually reversed. Although, it was a great send-off, and also that wordless B&R issue, it was incredibly strong.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arsenal View Post
    The only characters who should stay dead are the characters who were created to die (ie the Uncle Bens, the Wayne’s, etc). The kind of character whose more of an idea than an actual person.
    At this point, isn't it just a thing where they pretty much everyone get a turn at being dead or 'dead' at some stage?

    Jason, Damian, Steph, Tim, Cass, Kate, Alfred, Leslie, Dick - most have had a turn at dying or 'dying' (fake-outs) and coming back. Alfred will be back. And okay, some of those deaths have since been retconned, but still.

  15. #15
    Mighty Member SixSpeedSamurai's Avatar
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    The only ones who should have stayed dead are Jason, Barry, and Elektra. Those had great meanings. By the time Damian it bit it, character deaths happen so often, they just don't have the impact.
    Pulls: Batman, Detective Comics, Star Wars, Crossover, Commanders in Crisis, Something is Killing the Children, Flash, Nightwing, and Iron Man.
    My runs: Batman #230-, and Detective #438-.

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