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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    That's the problem though. Marvel is too infatuated with that particular image of Spider-Man



    Ok, but you can't deny some older fans often balk at any changes to be more modern or inclusive, or just generally evolve the series. And I find some Spider-fans, for instance, tend to be 'isolationist,' if you may.



    But that's a problem of Marvel not making enough effort for Miles. Peter didn't instantly become great. Marvel put effort into him. The same is true of many other heroes who have or haven't had much success.
    They gave him a movie and a video game along with an ongoing.He is also part of team up books.
    Marvel is putting more effort into Miles than they did with Spider-man when he started.Peter never had movies or games to get people into the comics.
    If anything after ITSV 2 his popularity will die down.He his at his peak rn with a solo game and a sequel movie.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    They gave him a movie and a video game along with an ongoing.He is also part of team up books.
    Marvel is putting more effort into Miles than they did with Spider-man when he started.Peter never had movies or games to get people into the comics.
    If anything after ITSV 2 his popularity will die down.He his at his peak rn with a solo game and a sequel movie.
    I don't think his popularity will just disappear. And if Marvel has put enough effort then why doesn't have as many great comics as peter, as you've put it?

  3. #33
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    It is an interesting question. There are a few factors. Much of it comes down to business trends, as a spinoff makes more money than an original property.

    In the early to mid 1990s, Venom was pretty much a monthly title with a new issue of a mini-series out every month. Morbius had an ongoing title that lasted for 32 issues. Silver Sable and the Wild Pack lasted for 36 issues. There were mini-series about Prowler, Annex, Solo and the Daily Bugle. Later, Untold Tales of Spider-Man showed that there could be a regular Spider-Man book that wasn't set in the present. Ben Reilly taking over showed that the title won't necessarily be about Peter Parker. There was also an effort to connect the Spider-Man books to titles like Daredevil and X-Man, the latter due to Peter's friendship with Nate Grey.

    The late '98 relaunch had two books largely set in the past (Webspinners and Tangled Web) and coincided with the release of the MC2 Spider-Girl, which featured Spider-Man's world with a different protagonist, and also served as an alternative title for fans of more old-school comics. The Mattie Franklin Spider-Woman was a spinoff book featuring characters from the Spider-Man comics.

    Quesada took over as EIC, and we initially had a more back to basics approach to Spider-Man. Ultimate Spider-Man became the most successful comics alternate reality take on Spidey. The main publishing change was that comics were written with the trade paperback market in mind which did result in more self-contained projects, include a bevy of mini-series to coincide with the first two movies. There was an effort to introduce Arańa as a spinoff character.

    Spider-Man joined the New Avengers, and JMS' run was no longer separated from the rest of the Marvel Universe. The satellite books started to matter a lot less, to the extent that issues of monthly Spider-Man books regularly fell outside the top 40.

    Brand New Day made the satellite books much less important as production of Amazing Spider-Man increased significantly. The ultimate Peter Parker was killed off and replaced by Miles Morales. The Spider-Men mini-series helped make alternate universes a regular part of the Spider-Man comics, which continued with Spider-Verse and the arrival of Spider-Gwen. Kaine got a monthly title. Silk become a relatively popular spinoff character. The Venom books were successful under Mike Costa as writer, but Cates and Stegman were able to give the character a more distinct identity, which made the book more successful even if there were regular interactions with Spider-Man.

    It seemed to be a slow process, building on earlier moments. A big aspect of it is the focus on diversity in comics, and the idea that people who aren't white guys should be able to imagine themselves as Spider-Man, which led to the acceptance of Miles Morales, Spider-Gwen and Silk.
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  4. #34
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    I think the inclusivity is a big factor in these newer developments

  5. #35
    Ultimate Member Mister Mets's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I think the inclusivity is a big factor in these newer developments
    It has taken off recently.

    I did forget to mention Slingers as an effort at a spinoff. It was critically acclaimed and relatively inclusive, but it came at the wrong time.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mister Mets View Post
    It has taken off recently.

    I did forget to mention Slingers as an effort at a spinoff. It was critically acclaimed and relatively inclusive, but it came at the wrong time.
    By wrong time you mean more regressive time? I'm not super familiar with Slingers so I can't say for sure why it didn't catch on

    I did think once that it might be cool to see a new Spider-hero who has the web/wallcrawler abilities, but otherwise has a totally different power set

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Well he did it first and most would say better.Also he was one of the first solo teen heroes and an original character.
    Miles is part of a time where we have thousands of teen heroes and legacy characters.
    Also while Peter built the Spider-man legacy miles is just riding it and not adding anything to it.
    Also I have said this before but Peter in his first 11 years had so many iconic stories and moments and one of the best supporting casts and villain selections.
    Miles has none of that in his first 11 years even though he has much more exposure.
    You say "so many", but I only hear "If This Be my Destiny", "Clone Saga", "Gwen Stacy", and "Kraven's Last Hunt". Many of those stories are pretty spaced apart and kinda overrated imo, so that's not really a plus to Peter.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    Them being the same, honestly doesn't make Peter better. That just shows that despite Peter having three or four times the material that the other characters do, he doesn't have much to show for it.
    If it reflects so much on other characters, doesn't that show how impactful he is?

  9. #39
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    And it was a hundred times better when it was one character. Spidey was always intended to be a lone wolf dating back to the Lee/Ditko days. Plus, most of the sidekicks are just ticking boxes on a diversity checklist, when their writers should’ve been more focused on giving them distinctive personalities and compelling motivations.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    And it was a hundred times better when it was one character. Spidey was always intended to be a lone wolf dating back to the Lee/Ditko days. Plus, most of the sidekicks are just ticking boxes on a diversity checklist, when their writers should’ve been more focused on giving them distinctive personalities and compelling motivations.
    The same could be said about Spidey's OG villains and look how popular they got.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    They gave him a movie and a video game along with an ongoing.He is also part of team up books.
    Marvel is putting more effort into Miles than they did with Spider-man when he started.Peter never had movies or games to get people into the comics.
    If anything after ITSV 2 his popularity will die down.He his at his peak rn with a solo game and a sequel movie.
    Superhero movies and games weren't that common when Peter was introduced.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    And it was a hundred times better when it was one character. Spidey was always intended to be a lone wolf dating back to the Lee/Ditko days. Plus, most of the sidekicks are just ticking boxes on a diversity checklist, when their writers should’ve been more focused on giving them distinctive personalities and compelling motivations.
    They're not sidekicks. They just generally get reduced into being that way whenever they're in stories where Peter is the lead character.

    Or, conversely, Peter ends up feeling like their sidekick.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post

    Or, conversely, Peter ends up feeling like their sidekick.
    Yes, and that’s even worse. Making Peter, someone who has been an experienced superhero for 10-15 years according to Marvel time, subservient to a bunch of precocious teenagers, is a lazy way to elevate these second-stringer characters. It reminds me of the beginning of the clone saga when they made Peter seem crazy in order to get fans to like Ben more.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Yes, and that’s even worse. Making Peter, someone who has been an experienced superhero for 10-15 years according to Marvel time, subservient to a bunch of precocious teenagers, is a lazy way to elevate these second-stringer characters. It reminds me of the beginning of the clone saga when they made Peter seem crazy in order to get fans to like Ben more.
    You can't be an underdog AND an expert at the same time.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Yes, and that’s even worse. Making Peter, someone who has been an experienced superhero for 10-15 years according to Marvel time, subservient to a bunch of precocious teenagers, is a lazy way to elevate these second-stringer characters. It reminds me of the beginning of the clone saga when they made Peter seem crazy in order to get fans to like Ben more.
    Peter is not a leader. He should not like actually be leading people. None of them are leaders. That is the appeal of having them team up or putting Peter in a group setting. They just kinda have to figure stuff out.
    I don't blind date I make the direct market vibrate

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