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  1. #1
    Astonishing Member mathew101281's Avatar
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    Default How Spider-Man went from a story about one character to a “team franchise”

    Spider totems, Spider verse, Spider-Man really has come a long way from a kid getting bitten by a Spider. I still feel Spider-Man’s best stories tend to be more grounded street level faire though. How do you feel about how the franchise has grown in the last 20 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mathew101281 View Post
    Spider totems, Spider verse, Spider-Man really has come a long way from a kid getting bitten by a Spider.


    I still feel Spider-Man’s best stories tend to be more grounded street level faire though. How do you feel about how the franchise has grown in the last 20 years?
    I don't consider this in terms of growth or evolution because that implies that "grounded street level" is automatically at a lower end or some lesser thing, which it is not.

    I think the "franchising" of Spider-Man, whatever you call it, really began with Bendis' NEW AVENGERS and Spider-Man going to Avengers Tower, that made Spider-Man part of a superhero team for the first time ever.

    Then OMD essentially destroyed Peter as a character in a story. To paraphrase what Chris Claremont said in another context, "they replaced the character with tropes" and since OMD Spider-Man for the most part hasn't really functioned as a character in a story or a character in page, but more as a mascot character or as a panel-and-balloon toy.

    What that means is that the people who can function as characters first and not toys isn't going to be Peter but rather new characters who come in, like Miles Morales who is the biggest new character in Spider-Man since Venom and Carnage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post




    I don't consider this in terms of growth or evolution because that implies that "grounded street level" is automatically at a lower end or some lesser thing, which it is not.

    I think the "franchising" of Spider-Man, whatever you call it, really began with Bendis' NEW AVENGERS and Spider-Man going to Avengers Tower, that made Spider-Man part of a superhero team for the first time ever.

    Then OMD essentially destroyed Peter as a character in a story. To paraphrase what Chris Claremont said in another context, "they replaced the character with tropes" and since OMD Spider-Man for the most part hasn't really functioned as a character in a story or a character in page, but more as a mascot character or as a panel-and-balloon toy.

    What that means is that the people who can function as characters first and not toys isn't going to be Peter but rather new characters who come in, like Miles Morales who is the biggest new character in Spider-Man since Venom and Carnage.
    I do not think Spider-Man has ever been about one character. Look at the rich supporting cast that Peter has going back to Ditko. I happen to also think this is why Peter still matters ( unlike the other identies of heroes). Why? No Peter? No JJJ and likely no MJ (as is). As for OMD, the question is why did it happen? I addressed this before but I will again: The same reason why the earlier Clone Saga happened: Fear: Fear of a loss of income because Marvel did not believe the public would accept a married and adult Spider-Man. As we edge closer to Amazing 1000, it becomes even more relevant. What do I think will happen? Miles will increase in importance and Peter will decrease. Why? Demographic changes which means the demand for Miles Spider-Man merchandise increases. Marvel and their Disney corporate parent will act accordingly to meet the demand. What about female spider characters like Gwen, Cindy and the rest? That is a largely untapped market because historically superhero comics ( even Wonder Woman) have not catered to girls. But I guarantee Marvel will try to reach them and Gwen, Cindy etc stories and toys will appeal to the tween girl more then Peter stories and toys. As we approach ASM 1000, it will be interesting to watch and see what happens?
    Last edited by NC_Yankee; 06-22-2021 at 05:45 AM.

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    I think Spidey is for action...Peter Parker is for character development. They need more of Peter interacting with family and friends...normals and supers. But not constant team ups. I have said before I would like to see Pete be the go to guy for tech stuff for his friends who are supers. Like if Luke, Danny, Jessica, Jessica, Anya, etc...come across some piece of tech in their adventures it is Pete they come to to figure it out. But I also want to see Pete and MJ interact socially with some of those friends as well. I would love to see Pete and MJ have a friendship with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    I think Spidey is for action...Peter Parker is for character development. They need more of Peter interacting with family and friends...normals and supers. But not constant team ups. I have said before I would like to see Pete be the go to guy for tech stuff for his friends who are supers. Like if Luke, Danny, Jessica, Jessica, Anya, etc...come across some piece of tech in their adventures it is Pete they come to to figure it out. But I also want to see Pete and MJ interact socially with some of those friends as well. I would love to see Pete and MJ have a friendship with Jessica Jones and Luke Cage.
    It should be Miles doing the Team-Ups. Let Peter be for MJ and his rogues gallery

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    While not everything has worked out, I think in the end it's better for the franchise to evolve this way. I like seeing multiple Spider-heroes, and seeing Peter Parker interact with others rather than just be a solo "I don't need anyone" type of guy. As NC_Yankee pointed out, demographics are changing, and having multiple Spider-heroes from different demographics can appeal to those demographics who've long been underserved. Plus, it's nice to see the Spider-Man template used in a different way besides the same way it has been. I think Peter himself needs to be allowed to evolve and not be stuck in the same repeated story tropes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    It should be Miles doing the Team-Ups. Let Peter be for MJ and his rogues gallery
    I am not against team-ups...but they should be the exception not the rule.

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    That's what happens in a franchise/life: people show up. The fact that people seemed to be allergic to everyone but "classic" characters was always annoying to me.

    That being said, Spider-Man's cast is big enough that he really doesn't need any crossovers. Just let him actually interact with his own characters like Miles and Ben, and I'll be satiated.

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    Money.
    More Spider-people equals more money and they can fit a Spider-character for everyone.
    Personally i don't mind their being a Spider-verse but it should be downsized.This is ideal for me:-

    Spider-man:One and only Peter Parker.ASM with a second more kid friendly ongoing like Friendly Neighbourhood and a mini every now and then.
    Spider-woman:Jessica Drew or Silk.Jessica ongoing while recently good doesn't sell well.Silk's mini has dropped in sales as well.I would say do a mini of one of them at a time.
    Madame Web:Julia Carpeneter: Cameo's and maybe a mini every 5-10 years.
    Spider-girl:Anya Corazon, guest star in the Spider-woman stuff.
    1610:An ongoing for Miles in 1610 and if his hype dies down then give him a mini.
    Clones:If others like Miles or Spider-woman aren't going on get Ben and Kaine on that.Otherwise guests and cameo's.
    A spider-verse every 5-10 years but not the inheritors for a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Money.
    More Spider-people equals more money and they can fit a Spider-character for everyone.
    Personally i don't mind their being a Spider-verse but it should be downsized.This is ideal for me:-

    Spider-man:One and only Peter Parker.ASM with a second more kid friendly ongoing like Friendly Neighbourhood and a mini every now and then.
    Spider-woman:Jessica Drew or Silk.Jessica ongoing while recently good doesn't sell well.Silk's mini has dropped in sales as well.I would say do a mini of one of them at a time.
    Madame Web:Julia Carpeneter: Cameo's and maybe a mini every 5-10 years.
    Spider-girl:Anya Corazon, guest star in the Spider-woman stuff.
    1610:An ongoing for Miles in 1610 and if his hype dies down then give him a mini.
    Clones:If others like Miles or Spider-woman aren't going on get Ben and Kaine on that.Otherwise guests and cameo's.
    A spider-verse every 5-10 years but not the inheritors for a while.
    So Spider-Man should be in his own universe away from other heroes!

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    So Spider-Man should be in his own universe away from other heroes!
    I never said that.Team-ups as someone said above should be the exception and not the rule.This was just outlining a line-up.
    They will interact with each other.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by PCN24454 View Post
    That's what happens in a franchise/life: people show up. The fact that people seemed to be allergic to everyone but "classic" characters was always annoying to me.

    That being said, Spider-Man's cast is big enough that he really doesn't need any crossovers. Just let him actually interact with his own characters like Miles and Ben, and I'll be satiated.
    Yeah, keeping a character doing the same thing forever can become uninteresting. As long as the changes aren't idiotic, like character assassination, they should happen at some point.

    I think based on his history, peter Parker works better than others as a solo hero, but a crossover every now and then is good. The thing is, crossovers with other heroes don't always have to be some big epic story

  13. #13
    Spectacular Member primenumber101's Avatar
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    I think, ironically, the Marvel recently tries to bring back Spider-Man into more grounded level.

    The Nick Spencer's run is pretty much about 'returning Spider-Man into ground level', Peter is pretty much became loner with no super team association, and other medias such as PS4 game or Into the Spider-Verse brings more into traditional Spider-Man than super team mate Spider-Man (Of course, there are a exception, still)

    Like people above, I'm not against crossover with other heroes, just have Peter do his things unless the situation is really serious that he need others for back up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by primenumber101 View Post
    I think, ironically, the Marvel recently tries to bring back Spider-Man into more grounded level.

    The Nick Spencer's run is pretty much about 'returning Spider-Man into ground level', Peter is pretty much became loner with no super team association, and other medias such as PS4 game or Into the Spider-Verse brings more into traditional Spider-Man than super team mate Spider-Man (Of course, there are a exception, still)

    Like people above, I'm not against crossover with other heroes, just have Peter do his things unless the situation is really serious that he need others for back up.
    An easy way to get around that is just for heroes to not exist. If they exist, then Spider-Man should be interacting with them because the setting is too small for him not to be otherwise.

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    It's not that I don't understand the needs for the franchise to expand and add new characters/heroes, but very rarely do they seem to gel with Peter or the franchise' roots beyond their own, isolated, stories.

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