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  1. #721
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Again stuff like marvel's Spider-man and Ultimate Spider-man having the Spider-man was bad for both him and the others.Give the others a show, don't jam them together.

    I agree, use other characters.Don't jam them together.

    Bruh future series are a thing, Spider-gwen was her best in 65 and this is pretty undeniable, Miles is a toss up but favoring 1610 by a decent margin(can be seen in links provided).Same with miguel.

    I.... what?
    I just said this is a backwards and bad change, not change itself.You can change without removing fundamental of a characters.

    Can we just call it here, I think we have agreed on as much as we can and had a good argument but until something new pops up I think I've made all the points I had too.
    I suppose neither of us will convince the other

    But I still don't get the whole "There's too many" thing. Just develop those characters better. Don't abandon or reverse them. At least, that's how I feel.

    And while I don't watch these shows, I wouldn't expect every show with multiple characters just to focus on one. Peter can't be the focus in crossover he's in. Especially if he's just going to be the same Peter we already know anyways. But again, I don't watch these shows. And if they poorly adapt this concept, that doesn't mean it doesn't work in the comics.
    Last edited by Mik; 07-27-2021 at 01:22 PM.

  2. #722
    Astonishing Member SecretWarrior's Avatar
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    Yeah, Miles is too big to be abandoned. It'd be like abandoning, Nightwing, Bat-Girl, Wall West, etc. Plus, he's proven to be lucrative in multiple mediums.

    Develop him, sure. Sideline him, and you may get worse backlash then when DC tried to kill off John Stewart.

  3. #723
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    I think that we could have a Spider-man and friends type of thing over a Spider-family. They can occasionally get together and save the world, but it has to have the right people instead of shoehorning characters in because they have Spider themed names.

  4. #724
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I suppose neither of us will convince the other

    But I still don't get the whole "There's too many" thing. Just develop those characters better. Don't abandon or reverse them. At least, that's how I feel.

    And while I don't watch these shows, I wouldn't expect every show with multiple characters just to focus on one. Peter can't be the focus in crossover he's in. Especially if he's just going to be the same Peter we already know anyways. But again, I don't watch these shows. And if they poorly adapt this concept, that doesn't mean it doesn't work in the comics.
    There' too many is kinda proved already.We already have Spider-characters that are ignored.Develop the existing ones before making new ones.

    Again it's not a crossover, it's the whole show.You haven't watched them, I don't think you realize how bad it really is.

    Again in comics just send multiversal spiders back.Not stop making stories.

  5. #725
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Yeah, Miles is too big to be abandoned. It'd be like abandoning, Nightwing, Bat-Girl, Wall West, etc. Plus, he's proven to be lucrative in multiple mediums.

    Develop him, sure. Sideline him, and you may get worse backlash then when DC tried to kill off John Stewart.
    No one is sidelining him.He will still have his solo, if anything, being a gateway character back to 1610 will help with his sales.
    It'll be like ITSV.

    And one guy said peter being nerdy and a solo teen hero in his era is the same as a POC Spider.It's not.

    Peter's are character traits that make him so good, being a POC is a positive but not a character trait and definitely not as good as Peter's.

  6. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tmacaoni View Post
    I think that we could have a Spider-man and friends type of thing over a Spider-family. They can occasionally get together and save the world, but it has to have the right people instead of shoehorning characters in because they have Spider themed names.
    Yeah, from time to time.
    Don't make it the norm

  7. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    No one is sidelining him.He will still have his solo, if anything, being a gateway character back to 1610 will help with his sales.
    It'll be like ITSV.

    And one guy said peter being nerdy and a solo teen hero in his era is the same as a POC Spider.It's not.

    Peter's are character traits that make him so good, being a POC is a positive but not a character trait and definitely not as good as Peter's.
    You are sidelining him if he doesn't interact with the mainstream versions of other heroes. At the end of the day, what makes good writing is interesting relationships.

    There's nothing wrong with Miles being in 616 and only working alongside Peter some of the time, a la the Bat-Family, which has most of the heroes operate solo in the same city. Not every issue of Batman features Batwing or Batgirl, but they can team up for bigger storylines or call on each other in times of need. That's enough for a "family." In fact, Batman is still known as "loner."

    This has literally already been mapped out by so many other comic book franchises.

    Miles's dynamics with Peter, Gwen, etc. need to be fleshed out more, but that's easier to do when they have easy access to one another.

    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 07-28-2021 at 04:36 PM.

  8. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    You are sidelining him if he doesn't interact with the mainstream versions of other heroes. At the end of the day, what makes good writing is interesting relationships.

    There's nothing wrong with Miles being in 616 and only working alongside Peter some of the time, a la the Bat-Family, which has most of the heroes operate solo in the same city. Not every issue of Batman features Batwing or Batgirl, but they can team up for bigger storylines or call on each other in times of need. That's enough for a "family." In fact, Batman is still known as "loner."

    This has literally already been mapped out by so many other comic book franchises.

    Miles's dynamics with Peter, Gwen, etc. need to be fleshed out more, but that's easier to do when they have easy access to one another.

    Actually the Batfamily is usually known for working collectively and in conjunction with each other often...

  9. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    You are sidelining him if he doesn't interact with the mainstream versions of other heroes. At the end of the day, what makes good writing is interesting relationships.

    There's nothing wrong with Miles being in 616 and only working alongside Peter some of the time, a la the Bat-Family, which has most of the heroes operate solo in the same city. Not every issue of Batman features Batwing or Batgirl, but they can team up for bigger storylines or call on each other in times of need. That's enough for a "family." In fact, Batman is still known as "loner."

    This has literally already been mapped out by so many other comic book franchises.

    Miles's dynamics with Peter, Gwen, etc. need to be fleshed out more, but that's easier to do when they have easy access to one another.

    Again that's not true.Look at Miguel.His solos are better received even though he's in the future.And there are fans of 1610 and 65 versions.

    Again people don't want Spider-man to have a fam like the Bat.They are different characters.

    And even if you do want to go that route, then Spider-man should be a mentor figure.He has 15+ years of experience while the others have 2-3 to 5.

    They are his fam in name only, Batman has a strong relationship with his fam.

    Either do the thing most want and send multiversal spiders back or have Peter be a mentor to them.Don't half-a*s it.

    Miles and Gwen were a terrible couple in idea and execution.And if they want to solidify the fam then they need to make the large fanbase care by solidifying their relationship with Peter.

    I still think multiversal's shoud go back and the others should be mentored by Peter.But either way they need to do much better.

  10. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Actually the Batfamily is usually known for working collectively and in conjunction with each other often...
    Yeah, Spider-fam is stupid in idea and terrible in execution.

    But even if you wanna go that route, do better.

    Spider-geddon is bad in in of itself but making something like that the norm is just.... no.

  11. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Actually the Batfamily is usually known for working collectively and in conjunction with each other often...
    Then why is Batman still known as a loner? His own title is centered on him, with very little crossover and titles like Batman and Robin, Detective Comics, or Batman and the Outsiders focused on team ups.

    Similarly, Peter can still have a solo "loner" focus, while having a "family."
    Last edited by SecretWarrior; 07-29-2021 at 07:23 AM.

  12. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Again that's not true.Look at Miguel.His solos are better received even though he's in the future.And there are fans of 1610 and 65 versions.

    Again people don't want Spider-man to have a fam like the Bat.They are different characters.

    And even if you do want to go that route, then Spider-man should be a mentor figure.He has 15+ years of experience while the others have 2-3 to 5.

    They are his fam in name only, Batman has a strong relationship with his fam.

    Either do the thing most want and send multiversal spiders back or have Peter be a mentor to them.Don't half-a*s it.

    Miles and Gwen were a terrible couple in idea and execution.And if they want to solidify the fam then they need to make the large fanbase care by solidifying their relationship with Peter.

    I still think multiversal's shoud go back and the others should be mentored by Peter.But either way they need to do much better.
    The Spider-Fam has potential to be as lucrative as the Bat-Fam, but the relationships need to be better developed. (Family popularity is different from the popularity of the franchise lead.)

    Again, Miles is a much bigger character than Miguel at this point because Miles is linked to mainstream 616. At the end of the day, what makes good writing is interesting relationships. You undercut Miles if you are sidelining him by keeping him from interacting regularly with the mainstream versions of other heroes.

    Miles doesn't work as a mainstream Avenger if he keeps having to hop dimensions to work with them. It raises the question of why not work with the Ultimates or an interdimensional team like the Exiles, both concepts having less popularity than the Avengers.

  13. #733
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Then why is Batman still known as a loner? His own title is centered on him, with very little crossover and titles like Batman and Robin, Detective Comics, or Batman and the Outsiders focused on team ups.

    Similarly, Peter can still have a solo "loner" focus, while having a "family."
    Maybe because people make fun of Robin?

    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    The Spider-Fam has potential to be as lucrative as the Bat-Fam, but the relationships need to be better developed. (Family popularity is different from the popularity of the franchise lead.)

    Again, Miles is a much bigger character than Miguel at this point because Miles is linked to mainstream 616. At the end of the day, what makes good writing is interesting relationships. You undercut Miles if you are sidelining him by keeping him from interacting regularly with the mainstream versions of other heroes.

    Miles doesn't work as a mainstream Avenger if he keeps having to hop dimensions to work with them. It raises the question of why not work with the Ultimates or an interdimensional team like the Exiles, both concepts having less popularity than the Avengers.
    It seems to me the main problem may be the Spider-family doesn't interact with one another in the same way the Bat-family does. Someone stated earlier here the Spider-heroes are liked individually more than collectively.

  14. #734
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    Then why is Batman still known as a loner? His own title is centered on him, with very little crossover and titles like Batman and Robin, Detective Comics, or Batman and the Outsiders focused on team ups.

    Similarly, Peter can still have a solo "loner" focus, while having a "family."
    Do you read the current title.He is constantly working with barbara and even huntress.
    The others are doing there own stuff rn, they are very much involved in each other's stuff.

    That loner thing is long gone in comics.

    And I mentioned above if you can't do Peter justice in the fam then it's never gonna work
    Last edited by Spiderfan001; 07-29-2021 at 09:04 AM.

  15. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecretWarrior View Post
    The Spider-Fam has potential to be as lucrative as the Bat-Fam, but the relationships need to be better developed. (Family popularity is different from the popularity of the franchise lead.)

    Again, Miles is a much bigger character than Miguel at this point because Miles is linked to mainstream 616. At the end of the day, what makes good writing is interesting relationships. You undercut Miles if you are sidelining him by keeping him from interacting regularly with the mainstream versions of other heroes.

    Miles doesn't work as a mainstream Avenger if he keeps having to hop dimensions to work with them. It raises the question of why not work with the Ultimates or an interdimensional team like the Exiles, both concepts having less popularity than the Avengers.
    Again my initial point was that they need to stop jamming them into adaptations which I think we can agree on.

    As for 616, I think multiversal spiders need to go back.And Miguel is less popular because of the major push for Miles with the solo game and ITSV.Miguel is a much better character and specially a better legacy one.(You can compare their rogue's gallery, stories, etc.)

    Again he's not an Avenger anymore, and him being one isn't something most people care for.He is a teen spidey.If he's in 616 then give him a new name and better and original stories.
    I think you can agree Gwen needs to go back to 65.

    Also any concept can be good with enough "development".This is one that is not worth it.

    Even if you want to go that route make sure Peter gets as much respect as Batman in his fam.
    Stuff like The order and specially Spider-geddon is not gonna work and one of the reasons is side-lining peter.If you are using his name, then put respect on it.And you have to appeal to the larger fanbase, if you keep him side-lined and disrespected as he was in Spider-geddon no one will care about the fam as we can see in threads like Spider-verse overrated.
    Not saying others can't get their chance to shine but right now in fam stories Peter is treated worse than everyone and that's not gonna fly.

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