How Spider-Man went from a story about one character to a “team franchise”

[phonogram12]

Years ago when I was working the day shift at the stage door at a local theater while I was in grad school, the mailman came in and noticed that I had a whole pile of graphic novels in front of me to help me pass the time. He excitedly told me about how much he liked Miles Morales and how happy his kid was that Spider-Man was also another nice black kid. While I don't know much about Miles outside of the last Spider-Man cartoon (which, again, I found surprisingly enjoyable despite my initial misgivings), that alone is worth the character's existence.

And I'm willing to bet they're not the only two African Americans comic book readers/cartoon watchers who are grateful and enjoy the character immensely.

[CosmiComic]

Years ago when I was working the day shift at the stage door at a local theater while I was in grad school, the mailman came in and noticed that I had a whole pile of graphic novels in front of me to help me pass the time. He excitedly told me about how much he liked Miles Morales and how happy his kid was that Spider-Man was also another nice black kid. While I don't know much about Miles outside of the last Spider-Man cartoon (which, again, I found surprisingly enjoyable despite my initial misgivings), that alone is worth the character's existence.

And I'm willing to bet they're not the only two African Americans comic book readers/cartoon watchers who are grateful and enjoy the character immensely.

That's good to hear

[Spiderfan001]

Miles needs to go back to his own universe already.
Being in 616 where Peter is both active and alive and known worldwide, Miles calling himself Spider-Man makes no sense, and being in his own universe is the thing that gave miles his own hook, that he was an alt universe Spider-Man who saw Peter Parker die, and took up the mantle to honor him.
Without that he's literally just some random kid who got powers and started calling himself Spider-Man, like what hook does Miles have now, what reason does he have for being a superhero?
In 616 he's just redundant, and it doesn't help that every since he moved to 616 any consequences he faced or ever had are just gone, his mother died, but now she's back, his uncle died, but he's also back like it never happened, all while writers can't decide if they want him to be a bad guy or not

Straight facts!

[Spiderfan001]

Some trivia notes about Miles Morales:
-- Has more published appearances in 616 than in Ultimate Universe.
-- Has clocked more appearances than major long-time characters in Spider-Man's cast, such as Felicia Hardy
-- Has more titles and ongoing in 616 than in Ultimate Universe.
-- Headlined a PS5 launch game.
-- Star player in an Oscar winning animated movie.

Yep I think that's clear...Miles is in 616 forever and ever. Case closed.



Radioactive spider makes no sense.



And what exactly is Peter Parker I wonder. Spider-Man wasn't his birth name you know.

But he had better and more memorable stories in 1610.
Also him being in 1610 is parallel to 1610 coming back.Not saying to send him back to a dead universe.Just senf him there when the universe is in business again.

He called himself Spider-man because the world in 1610 could use one.616 has way to man heroes as is and the "the world needs a Spider-man" factor is not present for miles in 616.

Spider-man is the legacy that Peter parker created.Miles hasn't anything to it and just piggy backed its success .

[Spiderfan001]

Yeah, but he knows 616 Spider-Man, and he's on the Champions. Plus, if those people from 1610 joined him already anyway, then what's the problem?

He rarely interacts with 616 Spidey.
Plus he can jump into 616 when he needs help.

Also champions is one of if not the worst team books in both sales and fandom interest.

[Metro]

Some trivia notes about Miles Morales:
-- Has more published appearances in 616 than in Ultimate Universe.
-- Has clocked more appearances than major long-time characters in Spider-Man's cast, such as Felicia Hardy
-- Has more titles and ongoing in 616 than in Ultimate Universe.
-- Headlined a PS5 launch game.
-- Star player in an Oscar winning animated movie.

Yep I think that's clear...Miles is in 616 forever and ever. Case closed.

Appearance count is completely meaningless, since really nothing has been done with it.
The video game provides gives no reason he needs to be in 616 because it's a game coming right off the heels of a successful game starring Peter.
Then his movie does exactly what I said and keeps him in his own universe, the movie is titled Into The Spider-Verse.

Radioactive spider makes no sense.

That both irrelevant and a false equivalence.

And what exactly is Peter Parker I wonder. Spider-Man wasn't his birth name you know.

Again false equivalence
They've given no reason why Miles even wants or feels the need to be a superhero in 616, or why he would use a name made popular and known by someone else, and that person is still around and active.

Yeah, but he knows 616 Spider-Man, and he's on the Champions. Plus, if those people from 1610 joined him already anyway, then what's the problem?

He already met 616 Peter because Peter crossed over into the Ultimate Universe once.
And his relationships with the Champions are pretty meaningless, his friendships with Ms Marvel or Nova aren't any where near Peter's friendships with characters like Wolverine, Human Torch or Daredevil where this characters have deep history and are close friends even without appearing in the same books all the time.
And I already said all the problems with miles being in 616 just because his meager supporting cast jumped with him doesn't mean those problems went away

[Spiderfan001]

Years ago when I was working the day shift at the stage door at a local theater while I was in grad school, the mailman came in and noticed that I had a whole pile of graphic novels in front of me to help me pass the time. He excitedly told me about how much he liked Miles Morales and how happy his kid was that Spider-Man was also another nice black kid. While I don't know much about Miles outside of the last Spider-Man cartoon (which, again, I found surprisingly enjoyable despite my initial misgivings), that alone is worth the character's existence.

And I'm willing to bet they're not the only two African Americans comic book readers/cartoon watchers who are grateful and enjoy the character immensely.

I'm glad to hear that.
Also no one is saying Miles shouldn't exist.
just that make him a better character if you are going to make him a part of such an important legacy.

And many people(Including me and the people I know personally and so many people on the net) don't need to have the same race as a fictional character to connect to them.

[CosmiComic]

He rarely interacts with 616 Spidey.
Plus he can jump into 616 when he needs help.

Also champions is one of if not the worst team books in both sales and fandom interest.

Why don't you like Champions? Just curious

He already met 616 Peter because Peter crossed over into the Ultimate Universe once.
And his relationships with the Champions are pretty meaningless, his friendships with Ms Marvel or Nova aren't any where near Peter's friendships with characters like Wolverine, Human Torch or Daredevil where this characters have deep history and are close friends even without appearing in the same books all the time.
And I already said all the problems with miles being in 616 just because his meager supporting cast jumped with him doesn't mean those problems went away

Would his supporting cast suddenly be better in 1610? And why does he need a huge amount of supporting characters anyway? And how does putting him in 1610 improve his potential to build lasting connections to other heroes

I'm glad to hear that.
Also no one is saying Miles shouldn't exist.
just that make him a better character if you are going to make him a part of such an important legacy.

And many people(Including me and the people I know personally and so many people on the net) don't need to have the same race as a fictional character to connect to them.

If that's true then White male fans should be more willing to identify with more diverse heroes. And not every hero should be from the same majority demographic

[Spiderfan001]

Appearance count is completely meaningless, since really nothing has been done with it.
The video game provides gives no reason he needs to be in 616 because it's a game coming right off the heels of a successful game starring Peter.
Then his movie does exactly what I said and keeps him in his own universe, the movie is titled Into The Spider-Verse.


That both irrelevant and a false equivalence.

Again false equivalence
They've given no reason why Miles even wants or feels the need to be a superhero in 616, or why he would use a name made popular and known by someone else, and that person is still around and active.




He already met 616 Peter because Peter crossed over into the Ultimate Universe once.
And his relationships with the Champions are pretty meaningless, his friendships with Ms Marvel or Nova aren't any where near Peter's friendships with characters like Wolverine, Human Torch or Daredevil where this characters have deep history and are close friends even without appearing in the same books all the time.
And I already said all the problems with miles being in 616 just because his meager supporting cast jumped with him doesn't mean those problems went away

I was thinking I was gonna have to write up and post all this again.Thanks a lot.

[phonogram12]

Wait, is the argument he interacts too much with Pete of that he interacts with him too little? Kind of getting whiplash here.

[CosmiComic]

Wait, is the argument he interacts too much with Pete of that he interacts with him too little? Kind of getting whiplash here.

I don't quite get it either.

[Metro]

Why don't you like Champions? Just curious



Would his supporting cast suddenly be better in 1610? And why does he need a huge amount of supporting characters anyway?

Miles having a small supporting cast is a problem no matter where he is, him being in 616 is a separate problem in of itself.
And having a small supporting cast limits the kinds of stories you can tell with the characters, if you want a character to last they can't just be interacting with the same 5 people all the time.

[Spiderfan001]

Why don't you like Champions? Just curious

They aren't compelling.I don't know exactly why.
The weird thing is I enjoy Kamala Khan and Sam a lot.
They still suffer with same development problems like Miles but as just base characters I like them.
Probably because they are actually good legacy characters whereas miles was in 1610 but has no purpose anymore.
Also their stories are bad, like really bad.And the team has no synergy(besides the main 3).
Also the fact that they all know their secret identities takes away from a lot of tension in both their solo stories and team-ups.Not saying they should not reveal them but they should have waited longer.Or find something else because their interactions are bland.
Riri, Viv, Amadeus and tyclops are the only other members I remember.

I think the fact that earlier heroes specially Spider-man got to develop as a solo character rather than be roped in different teams helped him immensely.

[CosmiComic]

Miles having a small supporting cast is a problem no matter where he is, him being in 616 is a separate problem in of itself.
And having a small supporting cast limits the kinds of stories you can tell with the characters, if you want a character to last they can't just be interacting with the same 5 people all the time.

A lot heroes have small supporting casts though. I don't think he needs a Peter Parker level of supporting characters.

[CosmiComic]

They aren't compelling.I don't know exactly why.
The weird thing is I enjoy Kamala Khan and Sam a lot.
They still suffer with same development problems like Miles but as just base characters I like them.
Probably because they are actually good legacy characters whereas miles was in 1610 but has no purpose anymore.
Also their stories are bad, like really bad.And the team has no synergy(besides the main 3).
Also the fact that they all know their secret identities takes away from a lot of tension in both their solo stories and team-ups.Not saying they should not reveal them but they should have waited longer.Or find something else because their interactions are bland.
Riri, Viv, Amadeus and tyclops are the only other members I remember.

I think the fact that earlier heroes specially Spider-man got to develop as a solo character rather than be roped in different teams helped him immensely.

I guess some of those are problems. Although I don't care much about secret ids at all so that's not really a problem for me. What's the problem with their stories?