How Spider-Man went from a story about one character to a “team franchise”

[CosmiComic]

I think it depends on the extent of working with other heroes.

Like, I'm coming at it from the POV of a Spidey like The Spectacular Spider-Man (the cartoon) where he was always able to stop the baddie and resolve the conflict on his own 99% of the time. And I enjoy that more than, say, the alternative.

Oh. IMO it depends on the antagonist. Personally, I like seeing heroes work together, because it shows people can achieve more through cooperation. It's not always necessary, but I generally like it.

And the whole lone vigilante "crime is everywhere" storyline almost seems more like propaganda nowadays. It's not that crime has disappeared, but criminals such as bank robbers aren't a huge threat to everybody as other kinds of crimes, at least from what I've learned.

I guess I'd like to see Spider-Man try something new. His template is a lot of "seen it before", at least to me. Others may be ok with that.

Well it's better than nothing which is what you have,

Did you read anything bud, I just gave you plethora of reasons why it's bad and audience seems to agree.

Also adding to said reasons:
Spider-fam leads to cluttered stories and plot with no time for development for other Spiders undermining them while also undermining Peter and no positives.

I'm done with this.

Fine. I've read you're reasons and I don't agree with everything you've said. Some things, but not everything. It's possible the whole Spider-family isn't being done well right now. Does that mean it can never be done well? No, not IMO

And Spider-Man doesn't need other characters to stagnate his development. Marvel will do that itself.

[Spiderfan001]

Also for anyone who thinks this is just a Spider-man problem

The Flash has gotten so much worse and one of if not the biggest complaint is the supporting cast which is detrimental to Story and development of both the main character and the side ones.

Both Flash and even more than him Spider-man work best as solo characters specially in adaptations.
Flash fam works in comics because of better handling and connections to Flash which Spider-fam does not have.

[CosmiComic]

All characters tend to get more individual development in solos, don't they?

And would these guys still get development if they didn't have "families"? I can't be sure they would

[Frontier]

Oh. IMO it depends on the antagonist. Personally, I like seeing heroes work together, because it shows people can achieve more through cooperation. It's not always necessary, but I generally like it.

And the whole lone vigilante "crime is everywhere" storyline almost seems more like propaganda nowadays. It's not that crime has disappeared, but criminals such as bank robbers aren't a huge threat to everybody as other kinds of crimes, at least from what I've learned.

I guess I'd like to see Spider-Man try something new. His template is a lot of "seen it before", at least to me. Others may be ok with that.

There's only like one or two villains I could legitimately see Spider-Man needing help beating. I'm fine with team-ups but I don't see it being the norm for the character.

I don't think it's propoganda so much a story device for a character whose ostensible job is...fighting crime. And he also fights Supervillains.

I guess it would depend on what "something new" entailed for me and the execution.

Also for anyone who thinks this is just a Spider-man problem

The Flash has gotten so much worse and one of if not the biggest complaint is the supporting cast which is detrimental to Story and development of both the main character and the side ones.

Both Flash and even more than him Spider-man work best as solo characters specially in adaptations.
Flash fam works in comics because of better handling and connections to Flash which Spider-fam does not have.

Marvel's Spider-Man felt like they were rubbing too much off The Flash TV show with how much the supporting cast needed to help the main character solve their problems.

All characters tend to get more individual development in solos, don't they?

And would these guys still get development if they didn't have "families"? I can't be sure they would

Well, Peter got by pretty well without a lot of the other Spider-Heroes for quite some time.

[Spiderfan001]

There's only like one or two villains I could legitimately see Spider-Man needing help beating. I'm fine with team-ups but I don't see it being the norm for the character.

I don't think it's propoganda so much a story device for a character whose ostensible job is...fighting crime. And he also fights Supervillains.

I guess it would depend on what "something new" entailed for me and the execution.

Marvel's Spider-Man felt like they were rubbing too much off The Flash TV show with how much the supporting cast needed to help the main character solve their problems.

Well, Peter got by pretty well without a lot of the other Spider-Heroes for quite some time.

Exactly.
The thing is Spider-verse was also a team-up thing.They made it into the norm.

This.They nerfed the heck out of Flash and Spider-man.
They added too many characters and specially superheros and none of them got adequate development.

He got better of without them.Him being a solo hero and kinda of a loner was a big pull for many.

[Spiderfan001]

All characters tend to get more individual development in solos, don't they?

And would these guys still get development if they didn't have "families"? I can't be sure they would

The thing is not only does the main character suffer from this, the others do too.
And Spider-man at his core has always been a solo hero, it a fundamental characteristic.

And they developed much better without families.
And again adaptations like Marvel's Spider-man didn't develop him and just added on more Spiders.

It hurts development for all of them

[CosmiComic]

There's only like one or two villains I could legitimately see Spider-Man needing help beating. I'm fine with team-ups but I don't see it being the norm for the character.

I don't think it's propoganda so much a story device for a character whose ostensible job is...fighting crime. And he also fights Supervillains.

I guess it would depend on what "something new" entailed for me and the execution.

My point is a lot of the "street crime" he fights sounds like the same kind of propaganda the whole "thin blue line" uses. It was even criticized when it was in the PS4 game.

I guess maybe you and I differ in what we're looking for, which is ok. Even if Spider-Man can beat a villain alone, someone else helping him do it isn't bad. Or maybe he's the one who could help other new heroes because he's been around for a while. I like Peter, but personally I find the "lone street vigilante beating up crooks" to be the most overdone and cliche kind of superhero story. So if Peter's stories change from that, to some extent, I don't really mind it, and maybe I'd even like that. I'm just not as attached to older Spider-Man comics as you may be

Marvel's Spider-Man felt like they were rubbing too much off The Flash TV show with how much the supporting cast needed to help the main character solve their problems.

Well, Peter got by pretty well without a lot of the other Spider-Heroes for quite some time.

Doing well for a while doesn't mean it can be done better.

[CosmiComic]

The thing is not only does the main character suffer from this, the others do too.
And Spider-man at his core has always been a solo hero, it a fundamental characteristic.

And they developed much better without families.
And again adaptations like Marvel's Spider-man didn't develop him and just added on more Spiders.

It hurts development for all of them

Being done that way for a long time doesn't mean it can't change.

And even if this isn't done correctly now, it doesn't mean it can't be done well at some point.

[Frontier]

My point is a lot of the "street crime" he fights sounds like the same kind of propaganda the whole "thin blue line" uses. It was even criticized when it was in the PS4 game.

Like how closely he works with the police? I don't think he fought any crime in the PS4 game that wasn't warranted.

I guess maybe you and I differ in what we're looking for, which is ok. Even if Spider-Man can beat a villain alone, someone else helping him do it isn't bad. Or maybe he's the one who could help other new heroes because he's been around for a while. I like Peter, but personally I find the "lone street vigilante beating up crooks" to be the most overdone and cliche kind of superhero story. So if Peter's stories change from that, to some extent, I don't really mind it, and maybe I'd even like that. I'm just not as attached to older Spider-Man comics as you may be

I guess it depends how they handle it. If it's a Spider-Man story then I don't need to see him constantly needing to get saved by another character or constantly need help fighting characters he's been fighting on his own for decades.

But if it's a team-up story then, obviously, both heroes need to contribute.

Doing well for a while doesn't mean it can be done better.

I don't disagree, but I have yet to see what the better solution is.

[CosmiComic]

Like how closely he works with the police? I don't think he fought any crime in the PS4 game that wasn't warranted.

I think that was criticized, especially in the recent years when police brutality and the general nature of criminalization has been a major talking point. Plus, there was all the radar surveillance thing he was doing.

I guess it depends how they handle it. If it's a Spider-Man story then I don't need to see him constantly needing to get saved by another character or constantly need help fighting characters he's been fighting on his own for decades.

But if it's a team-up story then, obviously, both heroes need to contribute.

I wouldn't want Spider-Man to be made to be a weakling or useless, unless it's someone insanely powerful like Thanos, but Spider-Man doesn't really deal with those guys anyway. Like you said, it depends. Although the whole "beating villains he's fought for decades" thing ends up being it's own problem.

I don't disagree, but I have yet to see what the better solution is.

Well, some people seem to like these new Spider-heroes, so maybe it's already here. I can't be sure. The current situation definitely can be improved.

[Frontier]

I think that was criticized, especially in the recent years when police brutality and the general nature of criminalization has been a major talking point. Plus, there was all the radar surveillance thing he was doing.

I think to some extent that's just overthinking it.

I wouldn't want Spider-Man to be made to be a weakling or useless, unless it's someone insanely powerful like Thanos, but Spider-Man doesn't really deal with those guys anyway. Like you said, it depends. Although the whole "beating villains he's fought for decades" thing ends up being it's own problem.

How so?

Well, some people seem to like these new Spider-heroes, so maybe it's already here. I can't be sure. The current situation definitely can be improved.

I don't see anything wrong with liking or preferring them. Integrating them with Peter seems to be where the issue is.

[CosmiComic]

I think to some extent that's just overthinking it.

I don't totally agree. I think it's fair to criticize street level vigilantes in light of recent social developments.

How so?

Same with all comics. They never seem to progress. That's not specific to Peter, by the way.

I don't see anything wrong with liking or preferring them. Integrating them with Peter seems to be where the issue is.

Ok, well, like I said, that can be improved, although individual reception may vary.

[Frontier]

I don't totally agree. I think it's fair to criticize street level vigilantes in light of recent social developments.

I don't think Spider-Man fighting crime is quite the place to do that, but to each their own.

Same with all comics. They never seem to progress. That's not specific to Peter, by the way.

The villains do get their own kind of developments, in time, at least on a case-by-case basis.

[Spiderfan001]

Being done that way for a long time doesn't mean it can't change.

And even if this isn't done correctly now, it doesn't mean it can't be done well at some point.

It can, but it's changing for the worse.
Defending something by saying it'll get better is admitting it is a problem.
And it's getting worse the further we go.

[Spiderfan001]

I don't totally agree. I think it's fair to criticize street level vigilantes in light of recent social developments.



Same with all comics. They never seem to progress. That's not specific to Peter, by the way.



Ok, well, like I said, that can be improved, although individual reception may vary.

Not really.Spider-man comics are't the place to do that.

Again spider-fam is a backward step.Instead of making good change it's taking away from the pre-existing good stuff.

Again it's getting worse in both how often it happens and the execution.

It's similar to OMD, OMD was a change that affected the character but it just made him and his cast much worse.
It's a bad change and hurting not just Peter but the other Spiders along with his cast.