How Spider-Man went from a story about one character to a “team franchise”

[CosmiComic]

I don't think Spider-Man fighting crime is quite the place to do that, but to each their own.

I think it's exactly the place to do it. Some level of introspection keeps things dynamic.

The villains do get their own kind of developments, in time, at least on a case-by-case basis.

That's good. But at some point, some of these villains need some kind of resolution.

It can, but it's changing for the worse.
Defending something by saying it'll get better is admitting it is a problem.
And it's getting worse the further we go.

I don't think it's all bad, though

Not really.Spider-man comics are't the place to do that.

Why not? You said you wanted development. I'm giving ideas for that.

Again spider-fam is a backward step.Instead of making good change it's taking away from the pre-existing good stuff.

Again it's getting worse in both how often it happens and the execution.

It's similar to OMD, OMD was a change that affected the character but it just made him and his cast much worse.
It's a bad change and hurting not just Peter but the other Spiders along with his cast.

Except it's not a step backward. Spider-family not being done totally well doesn't mean it's a bad idea in general. You just don't like it. But others do. OMD and Spider-family aren't at all the same.

And if you don't want Spider-Man to change at all, then what development is he supposed to get? What exactly are we missing with these new characters if Peter Parker never is supposed to change? Maybe people like these new characters because they're not the same thing

[Frontier]

I think it's exactly the place to do it. Some level of introspection keeps things dynamic.

I think Peter's mulled over his effectiveness in the comics at one point or another...not that I think that had a place in the first Spider-Man game.

That's good. But at some point, some of these villains need some kind of resolution.

Well...they get that and they don't .

Except it's not a step backward. Spider-family not being done totally well doesn't mean it's a bad idea in general. You just don't like it. But others do. OMD and Spider-family aren't at all the same.

And if you don't want Spider-Man to change at all, then what development is he supposed to get? What exactly are we missing with these new characters if Peter Parker never is supposed to change? Maybe people like these new characters because they're not the same thing

I think more people care about the Spider-Family as individuals more than they care about the concept collectively. At least from what I've seen.

[CosmiComic]

I think Peter's mulled over his effectiveness in the comics at one point or another...not that I think that had a place in the first Spider-Man game.

I think it can work in any medium. It depends on how complex the game's story is. But if Spider-Man is to grow and evolve, at some point Marvel needs to evaluate whether his mission is still relevant as is

Well...they get that and they don't .

Norman did, and then he didn't! I think it's good to build up villains over a ling time. But eventually, they should meet some kind of finality

I think more people care about the Spider-Family as individuals more than they care about the concept collectively. At least from what I've seen.

I think so too. They're all fairly independent

[Spiderfan001]

I think it can work in any medium. It depends on how complex the game's story is. But if Spider-Man is to grow and evolve, at some point Marvel needs to evaluate whether his mission is still relevant as is



Norman did, and then he didn't! I think it's good to build up villains over a ling time. But eventually, they should meet some kind of finality



I think so too. They're all fairly independent

Again you agree they work are independent.They should team up but Spider-fam is not the norm.
Spider-verse was a team up thing, turning it into status quo hurts

[Spiderfan001]

I think it's exactly the place to do it. Some level of introspection keeps things dynamic.



That's good. But at some point, some of these villains need some kind of resolution.



I don't think it's all bad, though



Why not? You said you wanted development. I'm giving ideas for that.



Except it's not a step backward. Spider-family not being done totally well doesn't mean it's a bad idea in general. You just don't like it. But others do. OMD and Spider-family aren't at all the same.

And if you don't want Spider-Man to change at all, then what development is he supposed to get? What exactly are we missing with these new characters if Peter Parker never is supposed to change? Maybe people like these new characters because they're not the same thing

Just for my parts.

It is and many people agree.It's a already popular opinion that's growing.
Another very recent post with a major positive response:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRwj4iTsHwD/

The sample size is much lower than the others but this stuff is popping up a lot

Again going backwards isn't development.

It is.The concept was team-up, if it turns into status quo it is a bad idea no matter the execution.The execution is bad on top of this.

Never said I don't want him to change?I don't want him to get worse and/or sidelined in his own show.

And as polls(on other sites and here as well) and general consensus show, Peter is still the favorite and it's not close.
This is also evident in sales.

[Spiderfan001]

I think it can work in any medium. It depends on how complex the game's story is. But if Spider-Man is to grow and evolve, at some point Marvel needs to evaluate whether his mission is still relevant as is



Norman did, and then he didn't! I think it's good to build up villains over a ling time. But eventually, they should meet some kind of finality



I think so too. They're all fairly independent

depends on execution ig.

That goes for everything in comics.Nothing has finality anymore.

Already addresed.

[Spiderfan001]

Also for the most people like it part, There is a thread on here for whether the Spider-verse thing is overrated where most(90%+) agree that it is.

[CosmiComic]

Again you agree they work are independent.They should team up but Spider-fam is not the norm.
Spider-verse was a team up thing, turning it into status quo hurts

Why does it hurt? You say they don't get enough development, but I feel that would happen to Peter anyway because Marvel doesn't want him to get older in any case.

Just for my parts.

It is and many people agree.It's a already popular opinion that's growing.
Another very recent post with a major positive response:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CRwj4iTsHwD/

The sample size is much lower than the others but this stuff is popping up a lot

Again going backwards isn't development.

It is.The concept was team-up, if it turns into status quo it is a bad idea no matter the execution.The execution is bad on top of this.

Never said I don't want him to change?I don't want him to get worse and/or sidelined in his own show.

And as polls(on other sites and here as well) and general consensus show, Peter is still the favorite and it's not close.
This is also evident in sales.

See, you keep saying it's bad no matter what. Why?

Of course Peter Parker will still get the most sales. He's Peter Parker. This isn't a competition

depends on execution ig.

That goes for everything in comics.Nothing has finality anymore.

Already addresed.

Yeah, it does depend on the execution.

Idk if anything ever did have finality in comics. Certainly not now. But it wouldn't hurt.

[Spiderfan001]

Why does it hurt? You say they don't get enough development, but I feel that would happen to Peter anyway because Marvel doesn't want him to get older in any case.



See, you keep saying it's bad no matter what. Why?

Of course Peter Parker will still get the most sales. He's Peter Parker. This isn't a competition



Yeah, it does depend on the execution.

Idk if anything ever did have finality in comics. Certainly not now. But it wouldn't hurt.

You do realize this is about adaptations like Marvel's Spider-man right?I think you think we are talking about comics only.

I and others have given you plethora of reasons.Go back in this thread or see the spider-verse overrated thread.

You said they are liked and I said it's not a comparison.Which you agree with.
Every character has a fanbase but you have to learn to make sure the main character is getting good content in your show before adding more.Same problem with the Flash.

I would like that as well.But that is something that I feel we won't ever get for Marvel and DC comics.
Specially with cashcows like Spider-man and batman.

[CosmiComic]

You do realize this is about adaptations like Marvel's Spider-man right?I think you think we are talking about comics only.

I and others have given you plethora of reasons.Go back in this thread or see the spider-verse overrated thread.

You said they are liked and I said it's not a comparison.Which you agree with.
Every character has a fanbase but you have to learn to make sure the main character is getting good content in your show before adding more.Same problem with the Flash.

I would like that as well.But that is something that I feel we won't ever get for Marvel and DC comics.
Specially with cashcows like Spider-man and batman.

I assumed we were talking about the comics. I don't really watch the animated shows because I feel they're too oriented towrds kids.

I understood your reasons. But as I said, I don't agree entirely. Some of your reasons are subjective. But plenty of people like these new Spider-heroes, so obviously something is working here. Not all of it, yeah, but something appeals to readers.

Peter Parker won't get development whether there's another Spider-hero or not. That's probably why there won't be any "end" to these major characters.

And Peter Parker has had years of good content. He's not exactly starving for it. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be treated well later on, but new characters need attention too. I'd like him to evolve but if people want him to just do what he's always done, I'm not sure what exactly is the appeal anymore. Peter's narrative concept has become a bit cliche to me.

[Spiderfan001]

I assumed we were talking about the comics. I don't really watch the animated shows because I feel they're too oriented towrds kids.

I understood your reasons. But as I said, I don't agree entirely. Some of your reasons are subjective. But plenty of people like these new Spider-heroes, so obviously something is working here. Not all of it, yeah, but something appeals to readers.

Peter Parker won't get development whether there's another Spider-hero or not. That's probably why there won't be any "end" to these major characters.

And Peter Parker has had years of good content. He's not exactly starving for it. That doesn't mean he shouldn't be treated well later on, but new characters need attention too. I'd like him to evolve but if people want him to just do what he's always done, I'm not sure what exactly is the appeal anymore. Peter's narrative concept has become a bit cliche to me.

I am.I mentioned this several times that is about adaptations more so than comics.

Again every character has a fanbase no matter how good or bad.
And Spider-verse as a concept harms them all in development(both the main characters and his support cast and the others spiders).

If you wanna make a Miles or show, go ahead.Don't jam them into Spider-man shows or on the same Earth.

He has and will and still does, even in current ASM he is getting development.
Not having an end is different than not moving forward, there have been no major status quo changes(which we have a high possibility of getting at the end of Spencer's run) but there' still development.
Development doesn't mean dramatic changing of Status-quo.

Again never said don't give the new ones attention.Just not in same show as superheroes or in case of Miles not on the same Earth(kinda destroys his hole purpose).

And you may have been tired with years of Spidey content but their is a generation of people who read current comics and see current shows.You're not the only audience here.You are in a massive minority who is tired of Peter and feel his stuff is cliche.
Most people watch and read Spider-man for Spider-man whether long time fans coming back for more or new viewers/readers and they deserve to see Spidey the way he was meant to be and the way be works best.

This boils down to you getting tired of Peter which is okay but most people aren't.This in in of itself means that your argument is at a disadvantage since you don't care for the character whose show or comics we are talking about and who has the bigger fanbase by a massive margin.
And the other plethora of reasons provided by me and others on this thread and Spider-verse is overrated thread are more than sufficient to back up my argument.

[CosmiComic]

I am.I mentioned this several times that is about adaptations more so than comics.

Again every character has a fanbase no matter how good or bad.
And Spider-verse as a concept harms them all in development(both the main characters and his support cast and the others spiders).

If you wanna make a Miles or show, go ahead.Don't jam them into Spider-man shows or on the same Earth.

He has and will and still does, even in current ASM he is getting development.
Not having an end is different than not moving forward, there have been no major status quo changes(which we have a high possibility of getting at the end of Spencer's run) but there' still development.
Development doesn't mean dramatic changing of Status-quo.

Again never said don't give the new ones attention.Just not in same show as superheroes or in case of Miles not on the same Earth(kinda destroys his hole purpose).

And you may have been tired with years of Spidey content but their is a generation of people who read current comics and see current shows.You're not the only audience here.You are in a massive minority who is tired of Peter and feel his stuff is cliche.
Most people watch and read Spider-man for Spider-man whether long time fans coming back for more or new viewers/readers and they deserve to see Spidey the way he was meant to be and the way be works best.

This boils down to you getting tired of Peter which is okay but most people aren't.This in in of itself means that your argument is at a disadvantage since you don't care for the character whose show or comics we are talking about and who has the bigger fanbase by a massive margin.
And the other plethora of reasons provided by me and others on this thread and Spider-verse is overrated thread are more than sufficient to back up my argument.

Except it's the execution, not the concept, that's the problem. You keep acting like any kind of Spider-verse/family concept hurts Peter Parker. But I don't think that's true. You say he is getting development, so then what exactly is your problem? That he's not getting development in team-ups? Because that happens all the time. It's not necessarily good or bad.

And have you taken into account why other people like these new heroes?

And I never said I was tired of Peter. I said I didn't want to see him do the same things over and over again, and that some of his ideas are outdated, at least to me. A lot of fans seem to want the same ideas and that's fine, but I'd prefer if he changed things up a bit. Some fans seem to dislike recent changes but I'm not as attached to older concepts of Peter Parker. So that's where I'm coming from.

It's fine if a lot of people agree with you, but that doesn't necessarily make you correct. Of course Peter has a lot of fans, because he's been around so long.

If we're talking about adaptations, then that's different. I guess I'm more interested in the comics and the MCU in these matters, so Idk how much more we have to discuss.

[Spiderfan001]

Except it's the execution, not the concept, that's the problem. You keep acting like any kind of Spider-verse/family concept hurts Peter Parker. But I don't think that's true. You say he is getting development, so then what exactly is your problem? That he's not getting development in team-ups? Because that happens all the time. It's not necessarily good or bad.

And have you taken into account why other people like these new heroes?

And I never said I was tired of Peter. I said I didn't want to see him do the same things over and over again, and that some of his ideas are outdated, at least to me. A lot of fans seem to want the same ideas and that's fine, but I'd prefer if he changed things up a bit. Some fans seem to dislike recent changes but I'm not as attached to older concepts of Peter Parker. So that's where I'm coming from.

It's fine if a lot of people agree with you, but that doesn't necessarily make you correct. Of course Peter has a lot of fans, because he's been around so long.

If we're talking about adaptations, then that's different. I guess I'm more interested in the comics and the MCU in these matters, so Idk how much more we have to discuss.

I have stated multiple reasons why having Spider-fam as the norm in both 616 and adaptations is harmful.And most people agree it is overrated af and we should go back.Read the mentioned thread.
I said he is getting development in 616, and the spider-fam was a backwards step which they should correct.
And he is not getting development in the adaptations because of Spider-fam similar to how Flash isn't getting his because of his "team".

Because the have the name Spider attached in-front of them.They are piggybacking Pete's success.
If Miles,Anya, Silk, etc. weren't Spiders no one would care about them.
There fanbase would be more similar to reptils if not for Spider-man.

This I can see where you are coming from but:-
1)Newer fans deserve to see Pete as he is meant to be
2)And older fans tune into Spider-man stuff for those stories

If I want something new I go watch or read other characters.

Aside from majority opinion, I have also pointed many things in this thread as well.And your only reason is that you are tired of seeing similar things again.My argument seems to be stronger in both aspects of audience and points.

Again Peter has earned his place, while the others are much worse characters only semi-relevant because of him.

A lot of my points are geared towards adaptations.And MCU is an adaptation and I hope to god they give peter the time to grow up with another trilogy in college after NWH before introducing any other spiders minimum.I really don't care for Miles and Peter similar ages like in Marvel's Spider-man.

[CosmiComic]

I have stated multiple reasons why having Spider-fam as the norm in both 616 and adaptations is harmful.And most people agree it is overrated af and we should go back.Read the mentioned thread.
I said he is getting development in 616, and the spider-fam was a backwards step which they should correct.
And he is not getting development in the adaptations because of Spider-fam similar to how Flash isn't getting his because of his "team".

Again, I've heard your reasons a bunch of times, and I don't agree with them totally. If he's getting development, then what exactly is the problem? That's he not front and center in every appearance he makes?

Because the have the name Spider attached in-front of them.They are piggybacking Pete's success.
If Miles,Anya, Silk, etc. weren't Spiders no one would care about them.
There fanbase would be more similar to reptils if not for Spider-man.

So what if they're based on his success? That seems to be the only way new heroes can even get a foot in the door. What exactly do you want? That they all be erased? That all their fans not get what they want?

This I can see where you are coming from but:-
1)Newer fans deserve to see Pete as he is meant to be
2)And older fans tune into Spider-man stuff for those stories

If I want something new I go watch or read other characters.

Except my point is I want Peter to actually grow as a character. Why exactly is that wrong? Why should I want him to do the same thing forever?

And maybe new fans want new characters, too.

Aside from majority opinion, I have also pointed many things in this thread as well.And your only reason is that you are tired of seeing similar things again.My argument seems to be stronger in both aspects of audience and points.

Again Peter has earned his place, while the others are much worse characters only semi-relevant because of him.

A lot of my points are geared towards adaptations.And MCU is an adaptation and I hope to god they give peter the time to grow up with another trilogy in college after NWH before introducing any other spiders minimum.I really don't care for Miles and Peter similar ages like in Marvel's Spider-man.

Again with "earning". What has he earned? He's a fictional character. Marvel promoted him instead of others so he became famous. Now they're trying other people. There's no "earning" here. I don't think your argument is that strong because at this point I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore.

And honestly, Idk if need another trilogy of Spider-Man going to college. Does he need to be in college for 3 movies?

[Kaitou D. Kid]

As someone mentioned several pages ago, Bruce Wayne wasn't able to sell comics that one time DC gave him a different superhero name from 'Batman'. I'm not sure what "earning" is supposed to mean in this case.

I think what some people really mean by "Peter earned the name Spider-Man and the others didn't" is "Peter's stories live up to the hype and stories with Miles and other Spider-Men don't".

I still don't understand how that premise, if we take is as true, means we have to get rid of Miles and the Spider-Fam from 616 instead of simply writing them better.