How Spider-Man went from a story about one character to a “team franchise”

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

While you may have a point, is having a bunch of iconic moments as important as having distinct characterization?

Superheroes are action based and most started as power fantasies. So skimping on action scenes isn't a good look. Best thing is to have both like Daredevil.

[Metro]

Oh, I don't remember that. I though 616 was a separate Miles

Nope, same guy from the Ultimate Comics, they just used Secret Wars to bring him into 616 and pretended he was always around.

[CosmiComic]

Superheroes are action based and most started as power fantasies. So skimping on action scenes isn't a good look. Best thing is to have both.

When did I say skimp on action? Besides, not every superhero has to be an action power fantasy. Otherwise they'd all be kinda cliche

Nope, same guy from the Ultimate Comics, they just used Secret Wars to bring him into 616 and pretended he was always around.

Ok, that doesn't totally make sense

[Snoop Dogg]

Superheroes are action based and most started as power fantasies. So skimping on action scenes isn't a good look. Best thing is to have both.

A lot of western comics can't do action well, in which case they should not have it.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

When did I say skimp on action? Besides, not every superhero has to be an action power fantasy. Otherwise they'd all be kinda cliche



Ok, that doesn't totally make sense

I didn't mean to say you did.

I think a problem with Miles is he had a stronger hook in the Ultimate Universe. He was the successor to a superhero that just died. The drama is easier to see so Miles need a new hook for his 616 self. Bendis failed to give him one and just kept him as the Miles from 1610.

Ironically that could've been Miles's hook. He's a refugee from another dimension having to learn how to live a new life.

A lot of western comics can't do action well, in which case they should not have it.

I disagree.

[Spiderfan001]

I didn't mean to say you did.

I think a problem with Miles is he had a stronger hook in the Ultimate Universe. He was the successor to a superhero that just died. The drama is easier to see so Miles need a new hook for his 616 self. Bendis failed to give him one and just kept him as the Miles from 1610.

Ironically that could've been Miles's hook. He's a refugee from another dimension having to learn how to live a new life.



I disagree.

I love that.
Showing him have trouble with settling in.
Have him react to how different stuff is.

[Spiderfan001]

Oh, I don't remember that. I though 616 was a separate Miles

Yeah no.Same miles, 616 miles is a completely different story

[CosmiComic]

I didn't mean to say you did.

I think a problem with Miles is he had a stronger hook in the Ultimate Universe. He was the successor to a superhero that just died. The drama is easier to see so Miles need a new hook for his 616 self. Bendis failed to give him one and just kept him as the Miles from 1610.

Ironically that could've been Miles's hook. He's a refugee from another dimension having to learn how to live a new life.



I disagree.

I think keeping that facet of his past could make for good drama

[Spiderfan001]

And others have made points as to why he's not...which you and his other detractors conveniently ignored.



Why does he have to compare to Pete, though? Just because he shares the same superhero name? Why do they have to be pitted against each other? That just seems unnecessary.

dude what points.If anything you are the one ignoring points.

Because they have the same superhero name.If you don't want to compare fine.But We have given plenty proof why Pete>>>>>>miles

[Spiderfan001]

Peter against Miles is not even a competition, everything Miles had or done, Peter did it first and did it better.
And are you really asking why they compared? It's not as if they're two separate characters who have nothing to do with each other, Miles was specifically created to replace Peter, and is constantly pushed as the 2nd Spider-Man how are people not going to compare them?
Like most the first 616 Miles book is people going "Hey look another Spider-Man!"


No, I don't need to ignore anything, I kneed to look at the actual books and almost everything Bendis did in his 616 run is almost all entirely forgotten or meant nothing when the new writer took over.
And no appearance counts means nothing, if a large part of the time Miles is featured as a guest and written as nothing more than Peter in a different suit, or those appearances were written by Bendis who likes to push his pet characters
And then you're trying to compare him to Wolverine, which isn't even a good comparison because Wolverine was invented to be a one off Hulk villain not to be major player in already existing huge franchise, with his own comic book.

Straight facts

[Spiderfan001]

While you may have a point, is having a bunch of iconic moments as important as having distinct characterization?

Peter has both.
Miles has neither.

[CosmiComic]

Peter has both.
Miles has neither.

I wouldn't go that far

[phonogram12]

While you may have a point, is having a bunch of iconic moments as important as having distinct characterization?

Peter has both.
Miles has neither.

I wouldn't go that far

Yeah, the idea that Miles has no distinct characterization is subjective at best.

[CosmiComic]

Yeah, the idea that Miles has no distinct characterization is subjective at best.

I can see why people say he's similar to Peter or even Peter-lite. But I don't think he's quite as cynical as Peter is in some incarnations, or as science-oriented.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

I'd like to see more Peter-Miles master-Padawan relationship, but I wouldn't say Miles is a bad character

I suspect that the Marvel editors are intentionally trying to keep Peter and Miles apart. I guess you could say it's the only conspiracy theory I believe in (to my knowledge, I'm also the only one who believes it).

On one hand, it makes sense for Peter to mentor him and Miles being mentored by Peter is one way to distinguish him from Peter's initial stories as a solo hero.

On the other hand, Spider-Man having a mentor is kinda blasphemy for historical reasons (first independent teen superhero and all). Obviously it's all about the execution, but on paper it's not an idea you can generally sell to fans, save for the MCU where they kinda lucked out and managed to sell him as Iron Man's sidekick (even then, they won't be able to sell that version on that forever).

But it gets worse... Add to that a history of 'white saviors' in Western art, and Peter mentoring Miles technically runs the risk of sending the message that the 'White' Spider-Man didn't need a mentor while the 'Black' Spider-Man does. It that were to happen, it would be a disaster for Marvel's PR, especially in current times.

It shouldn't be that hard to write Peter in a mentor role that avoids those problems. But I'm not an out-of-touch corporate editor whose job is to maximize sales and dismiss what I perceive to be huge risks at all costs.