How Spider-Man went from a story about one character to a “team franchise”

[phonogram12]

As someone mentioned several pages ago, Bruce Wayne wasn't able to sell comics that one time DC gave him a different superhero name from 'Batman'. I'm not sure what "earning" is supposed to mean in this case.

I think what some people really mean by "Peter earned the name Spider-Man and the others didn't" is "Peter's stories live up to the hype and stories with Miles and other Spider-Men don't".

I still don't understand how that premise, if we take is as true, means we have to get rid of Miles and the Spider-Fam from 616 instead of simply writing them better.

Some people are simply offended by the mere existence of certain characters for whatever reason. *shrugs*

[Spiderfan001]

As someone mentioned several pages ago, Bruce Wayne wasn't able to sell comics that one time DC gave him a different superhero name from 'Batman'. I'm not sure what "earning" is supposed to mean in this case.

I think what some people really mean by "Peter earned the name Spider-Man and the others didn't" is "Peter's stories live up to the hype and stories with Miles and other Spider-Men don't".

I still don't understand how that premise, if we take is as true, means we have to get rid of Miles and the Spider-Fam from 616 instead of simply writing them better.

By earning I mean that Peter was the character who made Spider-man what he is.
When Spider-man first came out no one knew what it was, people got hooked because of how good the comics were.
Now people actively search out Spider-man content.

Again I have mentioned why we it is harmful to have so many Spiders in the 616, specially because Spider-verse is supposed to be multiversal occasional team up.

And the other part is about adaptations.

[Spiderfan001]

Some people are simply offended by the mere existence of certain characters for whatever reason. *shrugs*

Did you read any of this?
Their(Gwen and Miles) existence in the same universe and city is the problem.

And my main point is there being a Spider-fam in adaptations as the norm.

Not their existence.

[CosmiComic]

As someone mentioned several pages ago, Bruce Wayne wasn't able to sell comics that one time DC gave him a different superhero name from 'Batman'. I'm not sure what "earning" is supposed to mean in this case.

I think what some people really mean by "Peter earned the name Spider-Man and the others didn't" is "Peter's stories live up to the hype and stories with Miles and other Spider-Men don't".

I still don't understand how that premise, if we take is as true, means we have to get rid of Miles and the Spider-Fam from 616 instead of simply writing them better.

I don't get it either. It's fair to criticize Miles for not being distinct enough. But not necessarily for "taking away" from Peter. I don't get why anyone would expect Peter to get a huge amount of development if he's teaming up with someone, especially if he has his own solo comics.

"earning" is just a capitalistic concept IMO to benefit those already there. It's fair to say Peter has a lot of likeable qualities making him popular, for good reason. But he's a fictional character. He can't earn anything.

Some people are simply offended by the mere existence of certain characters for whatever reason. *shrugs*

It's fine if people don't like new characters, I guess, or what's being done with them. But like Kaitou D. Kid said, just write them better. Don't abandon the Spider-family just because it's not perfect now.

[Spiderfan001]

Again, I've heard your reasons a bunch of times, and I don't agree with them totally. If he's getting development, then what exactly is the problem? That's he not front and center in every appearance he makes?



So what if they're based on his success? That seems to be the only way new heroes can even get a foot in the door. What exactly do you want? That they all be erased? That all their fans not get what they want?



Except my point is I want Peter to actually grow as a character. Why exactly is that wrong? Why should I want him to do the same thing forever?

And maybe new fans want new characters, too.



Again with "earning". What has he earned? He's a fictional character. Marvel promoted him instead of others so he became famous. Now they're trying other people. There's no "earning" here. I don't think your argument is that strong because at this point I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore.

And honestly, Idk if need another trilogy of Spider-Man going to college. Does he need to be in college for 3 movies?

Because it's his show.Marvel's spider-man, Peter is the main character.If it's Miles or Anya's or Gwen's show then I'd be fine with it.

You asked me why they are so popular compared to other new characters.I told you why.
And if their fans want them to be shoehorned in a half-as*ed way into a Spider-man show then that's a problem for both Spidey fans and other Spider fans.
As for 616, Only Miles and Gwen are the ones who need to go back.They will still have stories.

My point is giving their fans(much smaller group which they have because of Peter) at the cost of Spider-man fans(much larger group and the main character of the show or story) is a problem.
Giving them content isn't, don't jam them into Spider-man.

Grow is different from drastically change, you may be bored of it but most people still like it and got much more tired of Spider-fam in way less time.

That makes no sense, all characters are new to new fans.
The old characters sell much more than new ones and are much more popular with kids.
Old ones also have much more content already existing for them to watch or read.

Bruh earning means when Spider-man wasn't a thing people read the comic and got hooked for the character which was Peter.He got a push because he was good and people liked his comics.Now people actively seek out Spider-man so they make new characters to piggy-back of that success.

I've said my points numerous times, and my argument has popularity and other arguments to back it up
1)Main point:-Spider-fam should not be the norm for adaptations.It's a team-up thing, not something that should be a part of regular.
2)Secondary point- a)Multiversal Spiders like Miles and Gwen should not be in 616.(Miles's is if and when 1610 is back, Gwen's there is no excuse)
b)We already have way too many Spider-oc's as is, focus on the ones we have instead of making new ones.(for e.x. give Anya and Julia stories before making stuff like Silk and Spider-gwen and focus on them)

Yeah, I only say that because Spider-man is the big hero they have left after Thor rn, I don't think they want to let him go.
They can do the trick in 2 movies easliy, the point is that he needs another trilogy before they introduce other Spiders.

Again you can disagree, just don't say it's not a valid problem to have.
And when I say valid problem it means that it definitely hurts some fans(or a lot from what we have seen), not that it's inherently bad for everyone.

[Spiderfan001]

I don't get it either. It's fair to criticize Miles for not being distinct enough. But not necessarily for "taking away" from Peter. I don't get why anyone would expect Peter to get a huge amount of development if he's teaming up with someone, especially if he has his own solo comics.

"earning" is just a capitalistic concept IMO to benefit those already there. It's fair to say Peter has a lot of likeable qualities making him popular, for good reason. But he's a fictional character. He can't earn anything.



It's fine if people don't like new characters, I guess, or what's being done with them. But like Kaitou D. Kid said, just write them better. Don't abandon the Spider-family just because it's not perfect now.

It takes away from Peter when every adaptation thinks Spider-man content should have multiple Spiders.(Again make content for other Spiders, just don't jam them into Spider-man).
I'm not really talking about if Miles is good or bad, that's not my point here.That's another discussion that I've had multiple times but not valid here since adaptations vary from comics.

No, I meant the character of Peter "earned" his popularity because he was popular because of how good his comics were as compared to other spiders who ride his success.

Again the concept of Spider-fam is harmful when it's the norm.Not if we have the occasional multiversal team up with different Earth Spiders(miles, gwen) or with other spiders(Anya,Silk).

Again this isn't a comic problem for the most part(except multiversal spiders shouldn't be main stays on 616 and focus on existing Spiders than make new ones when others barely have content) but an adaptations problem.

And for the making new spiders thing, you brought up that new character fans deserve content but making more Spiders takes away from them.Making Silk and Spider-gwen took away from Anya and Julia.Miles was a 1610 thing so that made sense but as soon as he came to 616 he is taking from them and if they don't stop making newer ones then these will also get overshadowed.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

By earning I mean that Peter was the character who made Spider-man what he is.
When Spider-man first came out no one knew what it was, people got hooked because of how good the comics were.
Now people actively search out Spider-man content.

Again I have mentioned why we it is harmful to have so many Spiders in the 616, specially because Spider-verse is supposed to be multiversal occasional team up.

And the other part is about adaptations.

Everyone knew who Spider-Man was when it came out. Amazing Fantasy #15 was an instant hit. It literally put Marvel on the map (Fantastic Four #1 was a sleeper hit by comparison.)

There is this assumption that good Peter stories came first and Peter Hype came second. That is only true if you're talking about AF #15, maybe.

[Spiderfan001]

Everyone knew who Spider-Man was when it came out. Amazing Fantasy #15 was an instant hit. It literally put Marvel on the map (Fantastic Four #1 was a sleeper hit by comparison.)

There is this assumption that good Peter stories came first and Peter Hype came second. That is only true if you're talking about AF #15, maybe.

Bruh AF 15 was a Peter story.It was a hit because of how f*cking good it was, not because it was piggybacking something popular.That is still because of Peter.

And his first run is held in high regard and a lot of people got into Spidey or stayed because of that, just one story doesn't make that kinda fanbase.

In comparison most people found out about Miles because his first apperance was in The Death of Spider-man which was something read for aftermath of Peter's death and was read by so many because of Peter.

[Kaitou D. Kid]

Bruh AF 15 was a Peter story.It was a hit because of how f*cking good it was, not because it was piggybacking something popular.That is still because of Peter.

And his first run is held in high regard and a lot of people got into Spidey or stayed because of that, just one story doesn't make that kinda fanbase.

In comparison most people found out about Miles because his first apperance was in The Death of Spider-man which was something read for aftermath of Peter's death and was read by so many because of Peter.

You misread that. The point is that Spider-Man was always big from the beginning. Some characters like Daredevil and the X-Men only got big after getting a great writer (Miller and Claremont, respectively). Peter Parker isn't one of those. Peter always had hype co-existing with his good stories.

AF # 15 was a hit partly because of how good it was, partly because of great marketing, and partly because of identity politics. That's right, identity politics... First independent teen superhero, first non-alpha looking male hero, and arguably the first neurotic superhero. All of those being just as radical in 1962 as a Black/Latino Spider-Man was in 2011. Surprise surprise to the ComicsGate folks (not saying you're one of them), Peter Parker is technically Marvel's biggest "PC character". LOL

[Spiderfan001]

You misread that. The point is that Spider-Man was always big from the beginning. Some characters like Daredevil and the X-Men only got big after getting a great writer (Miller and Claremont, respectively). Peter Parker isn't one of those. Peter always had hype co-existing with his good stories.

AF # 15 was a hit partly because of how good it was, partly because of great marketing, and partly because of identity politics. That's right, identity politics... First independent teen superhero, first non-alpha looking male hero, and arguably the first neurotic superhero. All of those being just as radical in 1962 as a Black/Latino Spider-Man was in 2011. Surprise surprise to the ComicsGate folks (not saying you're one of them), Peter Parker is technically Marvel's biggest "PC character". LOL

No I get all of that.But one good issue doesn't make a character.ASM has been is amazing from the start for a long time.
And he's been big from the start because he's been great from the start.

And all those attributes are Peter's character.The thing is, he did them first and arguably the best.Nowadays it's overused for characters.
I agree, he was the first character who did these things, but the thing is being radical doesn't give someone good hype.My argument has nothing to do with race.

And Miles,Anya and Silk also have identity politics.Miles most of all.

I don't see how this negates my argument, if anything it agrees and bolsters it.

Peter was the first of his kind and made it himself and was great from the get-go whereas other Spiders did no such thing and only rode his success and were nowhere near him in quality.

And my point isn't if they are bad or good characters, it's 1)Spider-fam's existence in adaptations as the norm, 2)multiversal Spiders existence in 616 and 3)Creating more Spider-oc's when previous ones haven't gotten spotlight

[CosmiComic]

What does identity politics have to do with anything? It's just another buzzword to bash diversity

[CosmiComic]

It takes away from Peter when every adaptation thinks Spider-man content should have multiple Spiders.(Again make content for other Spiders, just don't jam them into Spider-man).
I'm not really talking about if Miles is good or bad, that's not my point here.That's another discussion that I've had multiple times but not valid here since adaptations vary from comics.

No, I meant the character of Peter "earned" his popularity because he was popular because of how good his comics were as compared to other spiders who ride his success.

Again the concept of Spider-fam is harmful when it's the norm.Not if we have the occasional multiversal team up with different Earth Spiders(miles, gwen) or with other spiders(Anya,Silk).

Again this isn't a comic problem for the most part(except multiversal spiders shouldn't be main stays on 616 and focus on existing Spiders than make new ones when others barely have content) but an adaptations problem.

And for the making new spiders thing, you brought up that new character fans deserve content but making more Spiders takes away from them.Making Silk and Spider-gwen took away from Anya and Julia.Miles was a 1610 thing so that made sense but as soon as he came to 616 he is taking from them and if they don't stop making newer ones then these will also get overshadowed.

You keep saying it's taking away, but it's not a zero-sum game. Peter has a lot of content. No one's taking anything away from him. Some people like seeing these new heroes, even Miles and Spider-Gwen.

If adaptations don't use Peter well, that's the fault of those adaptations. It's not good, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on the comics. And maybe some adaptations want to use new characters instead of just Peter.

And why exactly were they going to develop Miguel when he's so far into the future?

Honestly, you do realize not everything will stay the same forever, right?

[Dzika_Sowa]

Alternate universes are still pretty popular within normies, so I don't expect this trend to expire anytime soon. I miss solo Spidey stories.

[Spiderfan001]

You keep saying it's taking away, but it's not a zero-sum game. Peter has a lot of content. No one's taking anything away from him. Some people like seeing these new heroes, even Miles and Spider-Gwen.

If adaptations don't use Peter well, that's the fault of those adaptations. It's not good, but that doesn't necessarily reflect on the comics. And maybe some adaptations want to use new characters instead of just Peter.

And why exactly were they going to develop Miguel when he's so far into the future?

Honestly, you do realize not everything will stay the same forever, right?

Again stuff like marvel's Spider-man and Ultimate Spider-man having the Spider-man was bad for both him and the others.Give the others a show, don't jam them together.

I agree, use other characters.Don't jam them together.

Bruh future series are a thing, Spider-gwen was her best in 65 and this is pretty undeniable, Miles is a toss up but favoring 1610 by a decent margin(can be seen in links provided).Same with miguel.

I.... what?
I just said this is a backwards and bad change, not change itself.You can change without removing fundamental of a characters.

Can we just call it here, I think we have agreed on as much as we can and had a good argument but until something new pops up I think I've made all the points I had too.

[Spiderfan001]

Alternate universes are still pretty popular within normies, so I don't expect this trend to expire anytime soon. I miss solo Spidey stories.

Same man.
And keep them in alt. universe, no need to jam them in 616.