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  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    I don't think there needs to be one for every race. I don't think anyone's said that. But Miles not getting proper characterization, for instance, doesn't mean more Spider-heroes is a bad idea. It just means Marvel needs to make more effort into differentiating these characters



    Again, that's because Marvel doesn't make as much effort to build up other characters
    Again did you see the list.Instead of creating new Spider-heroes or bringing others into 616 they need to focus on the ones they have.

    Except the did with Miles.
    They are pushing him with a half decent writer and a good artist.
    Again him being a quippy web-slinger with the name Spider-man just means he will always be foreshadowed.We are talking a bit about this in MM thread but they need to take him in a different direction rather than push him in the one he is currently headed.More street level crime and not dealing with clones and dimensions.
    That is just one of the reasons 1610 was better for him.
    The one advantage newer characters have is that they are easier to get into but they need to keep him simple for that but currently they are just making a mess of his story.

  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Exactly
    Miles similar to peter in many ways and in what differences they have Peter is usually better.
    Also it helps to have the (arguably)best supporting cast in comics.
    Aunt May,MJ,Jonah are still unparalleled.Even smaller supporting cast like Robbie are great.
    And Spider-man has the best rogue's gallery in marvel.(Only ones that come close are DC with batman and flash)
    Yeah that's another problem with miles, he has about no supporting cast or rogues of his own.
    Almost every villain he fights is either a one off that no one cares about, or from another hero's Rogues Gallery, usually Peter's and then when it comes to the supporting cast he only has his parents, ganke and maybe his uncle, while everyone else who shows up just vanishes as if they never existed.
    And I'm not even gonna get into how he doesn't ever really grow or have any meaningful consequences.

  3. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    Again did you see the list.Instead of creating new Spider-heroes or bringing others into 616 they need to focus on the ones they have.

    Except the did with Miles.
    They are pushing him with a half decent writer and a good artist.
    Again him being a quippy web-slinger with the name Spider-man just means he will always be foreshadowed.We are talking a bit about this in MM thread but they need to take him in a different direction rather than push him in the one he is currently headed.More street level crime and not dealing with clones and dimensions.
    That is just one of the reasons 1610 was better for him.
    The one advantage newer characters have is that they are easier to get into but they need to keep him simple for that but currently they are just making a mess of his story.
    Ok, but my point was many comments here talk about "Spider-Man has the best villains/supporting characters" as if they just appeared, rather than Marvel giving more attention to him than other heroes.

    I do think Miles needs to stand out. All heroes do. And if that's not happening, that doesn't mean Marvel should just dump the idea of Spider-heroes outside of Peter Parker

  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Ok, but my point was many comments here talk about "Spider-Man has the best villains/supporting characters" as if they just appeared, rather than Marvel giving more attention to him than other heroes.

    I do think Miles needs to stand out. All heroes do. And if that's not happening, that doesn't mean Marvel should just dump the idea of Spider-heroes outside of Peter Parker
    But Peter has a much better rogue's gallery in his first 10 years and it's not even close.
    Doc ock, Vulture, Goblin ,Kingpin, Punisher , Mysterio , Scorpion ,Kraven , Electro ,Lizard ,Sandman etc. were all part of his early years.

    Miles needs to stand out because the main reason he sells right now is because he is called Spider-man.
    Whereas Peter had great stories with great cast that made him popular Miles has no real substance.

    Again never said to dump him but make him an actual good character and that starts by diffrentiating him and giving him stuff so that he can stand on his own to legs.

  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro View Post
    Yeah that's another problem with miles, he has about no supporting cast or rogues of his own.
    Almost every villain he fights is either a one off that no one cares about, or from another hero's Rogues Gallery, usually Peter's and then when it comes to the supporting cast he only has his parents, ganke and maybe his uncle, while everyone else who shows up just vanishes as if they never existed.
    And I'm not even gonna get into how he doesn't ever really grow or have any meaningful consequences.
    This guys gets it.

    Also even the original ones he does fight are either alternate versions of or clones of him.(the clone is not original at all but at least they are his clones and not Peter's)

    Exactly, at least in the 1610 his mother dying was a consequence and also Kate girl from 1610 told his identity to hydra because he trusted her.Now thats all gone.

    Peter on the other had amazing consequences in his earlier stuff and in Spencer's run as well.
    Not even the big stuff, like the talk Peter had with new Avengers recently.Stuff like that builds character.

    Let's not forget Miles was very boring character until ITSV when they changed his character in comics to be more like the one in ITSV.They haven't done much for his personality since.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    But Peter has a much better rogue's gallery in his first 10 years and it's not even close.
    Doc ock, Vulture, Goblin ,Kingpin, Punisher , Mysterio , Scorpion ,Kraven , Electro ,Lizard ,Sandman etc. were all part of his early years.

    Miles needs to stand out because the main reason he sells right now is because he is called Spider-man.
    Whereas Peter had great stories with great cast that made him popular Miles has no real substance.

    Again never said to dump him but make him an actual good character and that starts by diffrentiating him and giving him stuff so that he can stand on his own to legs.
    Peter only has that because Marvel gave it to him. Can't Marvel do the same with Miles?

    Also, how many supporting characters does a hero actually need?

  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Peter only has that because Marvel gave it to him. Can't Marvel do the same with Miles?

    Also, how many supporting characters does a hero actually need?
    They have been trying to.It's not like he hasn't had the comics.
    You can say this for every character is better because marvel made them.They are all not people but just characters with multiple stories put together.
    Miles just doesn't have any that compare to Peter even though Miles has had a greater push(Talking about first 10 years).

  8. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    They have been trying to.It's not like he hasn't had the comics.
    You can say this for every character is better because marvel made them.They are all not people but just characters with multiple stories put together.
    Miles just doesn't have any that compare to Peter even though Miles has had a greater push(Talking about first 10 years).
    Ok, but if Miles doesn't have as many iconic characters/stories as you say, why exactly isn't that happening?

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    Ok, but if Miles doesn't have as many iconic characters/stories as you say, why exactly isn't that happening?
    I don't have any real answers but I can speculate.

    1)Consistent cast:Most good characters need some time to develop(1-2 years to 3-5 years).Miles's cast keeps changing so much we never get to develop them.

    2)Modern writing:The lack of consequences in current comics is something that affects all characters.The jump from 1610 took all the ones he had and they don't bother to give him new ones.

    3)Legacy:He is following in the steps of a character with one of the best stories and cast.Even if he had half-decent stories and cast he would still not be nearly good enough.Although this doesn't really matter since he doesn't have this even when not in comparison.

    4)Lack of Good Direction:They don't know what to do with the character.They only seem to do some good when they have outside media to follow which is what made him popular in the first place.They need to take him out of Spider-man's shadow and play to his strengths.

    I suggest a different codename for starters.As for his strengths(their aren't a lot but I can think of some):-

    1)He is a pretty new character so easier to get into.Keep his stories simple, but they are doing the opposite with all this assecor and clone stuff that not only puts him further in the Shadow of Spider-man for a quick buck but also makes it more of a convoluted mess.

    2)Use him as the centre piece to reintroduce 1610.He will thrive better in 1610 from tone to character.

    3)Keep him grounded.Have him fight Street level crime like Crime-lords.People dig that and ASM and Peter in general doesn't really have time for that.Also instead of a city give him a neighbourhood and make it his own.

  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    I don't have any real answers but I can speculate.

    1)Consistent cast:Most good characters need some time to develop(1-2 years to 3-5 years).Miles's cast keeps changing so much we never get to develop them.

    2)Modern writing:The lack of consequences in current comics is something that affects all characters.The jump from 1610 took all the ones he had and they don't bother to give him new ones.

    3)Legacy:He is following in the steps of a character with one of the best stories and cast.Even if he had half-decent stories and cast he would still not be nearly good enough.Although this doesn't really matter since he doesn't have this even when not in comparison.

    4)Lack of Good Direction:They don't know what to do with the character.They only seem to do some good when they have outside media to follow which is what made him popular in the first place.They need to take him out of Spider-man's shadow and play to his strengths.

    I suggest a different codename for starters.As for his strengths(their aren't a lot but I can think of some):-

    1)He is a pretty new character so easier to get into.Keep his stories simple, but they are doing the opposite with all this assecor and clone stuff that not only puts him further in the Shadow of Spider-man for a quick buck but also makes it more of a convoluted mess.

    2)Use him as the centre piece to reintroduce 1610.He will thrive better in 1610 from tone to character.

    3)Keep him grounded.Have him fight Street level crime like Crime-lords.People dig that and ASM and Peter in general doesn't really have time for that.Also instead of a city give him a neighbourhood and make it his own.
    Some of these ideas are good. Although Idk if Miles' fans would agree. Some of this might be subjective. For instance, I'd prefer he stay in 616.

    About fighting street crime, is that still a thing people want to see anymore?

  11. #101
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    Miles needs to go back to his own universe already.
    Being in 616 where Peter is both active and alive and known worldwide, Miles calling himself Spider-Man makes no sense, and being in his own universe is the thing that gave miles his own hook, that he was an alt universe Spider-Man who saw Peter Parker die, and took up the mantle to honor him.
    Without that he's literally just some random kid who got powers and started calling himself Spider-Man, like what hook does Miles have now, what reason does he have for being a superhero?
    In 616 he's just redundant, and it doesn't help that every since he moved to 616 any consequences he faced or ever had are just gone, his mother died, but now she's back, his uncle died, but he's also back like it never happened, all while writers can't decide if they want him to be a bad guy or not
    Last edited by Metro; 06-24-2021 at 08:23 AM.

  12. #102
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    All of his relationships and connections are in 616 though, aren't they?

  13. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro View Post
    Miles needs to go back to his own universe already.
    Some trivia notes about Miles Morales:
    -- Has more published appearances in 616 than in Ultimate Universe.
    -- Has clocked more appearances than major long-time characters in Spider-Man's cast, such as Felicia Hardy
    -- Has more titles and ongoing in 616 than in Ultimate Universe.
    -- Headlined a PS5 launch game.
    -- Star player in an Oscar winning animated movie.

    Yep I think that's clear...Miles is in 616 forever and ever. Case closed.

    Being in 616 where Peter is both active and alive and known worldwide, Miles calling himself Spider-Man makes no sense,
    Radioactive spider makes no sense.

    Without that he's literally just some random kid who got powers and started calling himself Spider-Man,
    And what exactly is Peter Parker I wonder. Spider-Man wasn't his birth name you know.

  14. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mik View Post
    All of his relationships and connections are in 616 though, aren't they?
    What relationships?
    Most characters Miles interacts with jumped over from 1610 with him.

  15. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metro View Post
    What relationships?
    Most characters Miles interacts with jumped over from 1610 with him.
    Yeah, but he knows 616 Spider-Man, and he's on the Champions. Plus, if those people from 1610 joined him already anyway, then what's the problem?

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