Is Marvel’s latest push towards diversity a fad?

[CosmiComic]

I don't think legacy characters are inherently inferior, despite what some may feel. In some ways the iconic imagery boosts their visibility.

[FFJamie94]

Does anyone remember that letter in an early issue of Fantastic Four where there was a letter complaining about black People in these comics?

Yeah, it's an argument as old as time, and if you're against it, them you've already lost.

[gonnagiveittoya]

Some of them seem like a fad. Infamously the New Warriors reboot definitely was, and some of these new Captain America's who I highly doubt will be seen again seem like a gimmick

[mathew101281]

I don't think legacy characters are inherently inferior, despite what some may feel. In some ways the iconic imagery boosts their visibility.

I tend to think that legacy characters work better when the character they are replacing isn't one of the big icons. with the major characters, there is always this threat that the original is too popular to "stay dead," or stay in a "lesser role". with lesser characters you don't have that issue because not enough people are going to care about the old character to want to bring him/her back. Plus you have the wisdom of learning from a failed attempt.

Replacements for iconic characters also suffer from being compared to there predecessors. Its very hard for a new character to compare favorably to an icon that has 50 or 70's years of nostalgia behind them.

[CosmiComic]

I tend to think that legacy characters work better when the character they are replacing isn't one of the big icons. with the major characters, there is always this threat that the original is too popular to "stay dead," or stay in a "lesser role". with lesser characters you don't have that issue because not enough people are going to care about the old character to want to bring him/her back. Plus you have the wisdom of learning from a failed attempt.

Replacements for iconic characters also suffer from being compared to there predecessors. Its very hard for a new character to compare favorably to an icon that has 50 or 70's years of nostalgia behind them.

Yeah, but that's because Marvel doesn't let any of the older characters age or progress. Admittedly, it can be hard to live up to a preceding legacy.

The question is: do the non-legacy heroes stand out?

[classicgmer]

Yeah, but that's because Marvel doesn't let any of the older characters age or progress. Admittedly, it can be hard to live up to a preceding legacy.

The question is: do the non-legacy heroes stand out?

We'll probably never know because Marvel generally doesn't give the non legacy characters even a fraction of the chances what the legacy ones get behind their initial push which is truly aggravating. I'd rather read about the further adventures of heroes like Sun Girl, Hummingbird, Yo Yo Rodiguez/Slingshot from Secret Warriors, or any of the Avengers the Initiative class among others rather than Miles, Kamala, Nova, Spider Gwen, RiRi, Moon Girl etc but it'll never happen because Marvel wants instantaneous success and mainstream exposure above all else.

[Thor-Ul]

To be fair, lots of characters, regardless of race/gender/sexuality, often fall into obscurity. Creating new characters is a crap shoot, and a lot of the time, characters will end up forgotten about. But it's only when it happens to minority characters that people point to it as a sign of failure, like it's some kind of reason to not make minority characters, because they will all just fail or something. When Adam X or someone falls into obscurity, it's not really remarked upon.

This is a good argument. In the 90s Marvel and DC created a lot of characters for their annuals and only one or two picked steam. Now, there is a trend to create more diverse characters, but how much are going to pick steam that is another aspect. They can promote and give a push to certain characters, but that is not guarantee that is going to work. But the point is if there are more diverse characters are created, the possibilities for at least one or two reach success also grow bigger.

[9th.]

What new characters are we talking about OP? I'm drawing blanks.

[Tofali]

I feel it is, and it bothers me. I feel a lot of these newer characters aren’t built for long term success. They feel in a lot of ways like some of the more gimmicky characters created in the 90’s.Characters created to feed off of trend, but lacking a lot of the important ground work that will enable a character to thrive long term. You can only go so far on the charisma of the main character. I feel a lot them will be relegated to b and c list characters in a few years, or become throw in characters on large teams where they get very little development and that’s just sad.

Marvel NOW! happened between 2011 - 2012 and Marvel NOW! 2.0 2017 So you are a little late with your observation and conclusions about Marvels diversity push

[CosmiComic]

We'll probably never know because Marvel generally doesn't give the non legacy characters even a fraction of the chances what the legacy ones get behind their initial push which is truly aggravating. I'd rather read about the further adventures of heroes like Sun Girl, Hummingbird, Yo Yo Rodiguez/Slingshot from Secret Warriors, or any of the Avengers the Initiative class among others rather than Miles, Kamala, Nova, Spider Gwen, RiRi, Moon Girl etc but it'll never happen because Marvel wants instantaneous success and mainstream exposure above all else.

Tbh I'd like to see both groups get promoted. I like seeing new designs but also new takes on older ones. And I can see why Marvel would want instant success considerinf how difficult it seems to be to popularize new heroes, although part of that requires actual effort by Marvel

I'd also like if non-legacy characters get more interesting power sets. Right now it seems the older heroes or legacy ones mostly have that, at least IMO

[dkrook]

My question is more simplistic, what is a diversity push? Is there supposed to be some rule where all characters have to be white? If there is a relevant connection to the real world, and the reality is that we have non Caucasians in it. Why is it so controversial or considered trend, or fad?

[Username taken]

My question is more simplistic, what is a diversity push? Is there supposed to be some rule where all characters have to be white? If there is a relevant connection to the real world, and the reality is that we have non Caucasians in it. Why is it so controversial or considered trend, or fad?

My thoughts too.

The numbers of non-white, non-straight people are increasing daily.

In this day and age, creating non-straight, non-white characters can't really be considered a fad or controversial.

[skyvolt2000]

The question is: do the non-legacy heroes stand out?

Depends....

Because the other factor you have to deal with is the STORES.

For all this talk about original characters-nobody put their money where their mouth is.
You can't cry about Miles Morales as Spider-Man or Jace Fox as Batman when you dismiss a Falcon, Static, Black Panther, Cyborg, Duke, Beast Boy, Raven and so on.

The majority of new books tossed out by Marvel were ESTABLISHED folks. FUNNY that only Squirrel Girl lasted the longest. Not Jean Gray Not Falcon Not Iceman Not Deadpool's homeboys.

For all the crying and hate for Ms Marvel it's her with over 70 solo issues. Not all these so-called icons. Not a mutant. Not someone who was in an Oscar winning billion dollar movie from Wakanda. Not someone from Guardians.

So for all this crying about non-legacies-fans are NOT showing up.
When attempts to expand certain folks-it is met with PUSH BACK-see Dr Strange, Inhumans & Black Panther.




And when get a non-legacy that does succeed. It's a BATTLE to find someone beyond that first creative team to use them.

In some cases-those writers don't get hired or even allowed to pitch.

Or we get folks in charge that have AGENDAS and trash characters-see Wally West, Tim Drake's generation and so on.

Or they get in the hands of folks that do little to nothing with them. What does it say when you have your TOP writer on a book and he does little to nothing with a character?
See Cyborg. See Duke Thomas. See Storm.

For all the cries of Storm needs a book because Coates does her right (at Panther's expense)-it does not matter if she is in top selling books being written poorly.

That is how you get an 11 issue solo run (Storm) or your book having under 20K by issue 6 (Cyborg).

How can you sell a Duke Thomas if Tom King has him in Batman for 2 years and it's ONE panel cameos.

[skyvolt2000]

My question is more simplistic, what is a diversity push? Is there supposed to be some rule where all characters have to be white? If there is a relevant connection to the real world, and the reality is that we have non Caucasians in it. Why is it so controversial or considered trend, or fad?

Generally most characters are default white unless the creators establish that they are not.

And even in that case as we have seen with novels-the publisher does not care. Rivers of London is a series of novels (and current comic book at Titans Comics) about a BLACK GUY.

Despite selling one million copies-when the book came to the USA-the covers were done to HIDE that fact he was black.
I know of another book that went out its way to hide the love interest was a black guy.


They do that because some stores won't stock the book or place it in a prime location for it to sale.
Especially if the book does not FIT a certain narrative.

If you go to Wal-Mart or Target-excluding the bio, romance, self help or health books by black folks. Guess what you will find hood life & ride and die chick books.
Books like The Last Last-Day-of-Summer by Lamar Giles or Arcade and the Triple T Token by Rashad Jennings are not there. Books that will get black children READING. Arcade is 4 books.
And I can tell you authors who have tried to use black characters have been in battles to get them made because the publishers only want certain narratives.

I know one who wanted to do a book about a black skaterboard and got told "black folks don't do that." I could list you about 30 black lead books that most have never heard of that are not hood life books.


Most are default white because that is the road of least resistance. The changes tend to happen during casting depending on the material.

[CosmiComic]

Creating minority heroes absolutely shouldn't be controversial at all in this day and age. If anything, the reverse would be

As for non-legacy characters, do they get dropped because of lack of effort by Marvel, or lack of attention from readers, or both?