LGBTQ+ mutants appreciation

[Kingdom X]

Duggan actually has quite a bit of representation in MARAUDERS. Aside from Iceman and Kate in the main cast, Christian Frost, Shinobi Shaw and Jumbo Carnation are all recurring supporting cast. Tempo has made a few cameos and is expected to appear again soon. Andreas Strucker has also made recurring appearances. Callisto isn't officially a queer character but she's certainly had plenty of subtext over the years, and she's joined the cast too. One could even make an argument for Masque, who has turned up a few times, due to that previous incident of him using his powers to give himself a female form for a time.

Maybe some of the gay characters aren't getting as much panel time or story focus as we'd like, but the book isn't lacking for LGBT inclusion.

Ok lemme clarify… I’d like LGBT characters that actually do something or have something resembling an arc. Right now it’s just checking boxes. I’m also not going to count Kate until it’s followed up on, because you KNOW Marvel would have mentioned her in their Pride comic that just came out if it was official.

[Dthirds3]

Ok lemme clarify… I’d like LGBT characters that actually do something or have something resembling an arc. Right now it’s just checking boxes. I’m also not going to count Kate until it’s followed up on, because you KNOW Marvel would have mentioned her in their Pride comic that just came out if it was official.

Yea. That was someting dc did better. Dc said these are out LGBT characters here's what they do and why you like them. Marvel its they exist thats good enough. The LGBT rep in the xmen comes off more as teasing. Its not substance.

[Kingdom X]

Yea. That was someting dc did better. Dc said these are out LGBT characters here's what they do and why you like them. Marvel its they exist thats good enough. The LGBT rep in the xmen comes off more as teasing. Its not substance.

I actually just read the Pride special today and it was so… self-congratulatory. Like how long are you going to milk Northstar coming out and brag about queer characters that haven’t shown up in an ongoing for years?

[NewMutant]

I actually just read the Pride special today and it was so… self-congratulatory. Like how long are you going to milk Northstar coming out and brag about queer characters that haven’t shown up in an ongoing for years?

Yeah. I like that they did it. And the recap was interesting. But its skips the part in actual history where MARVEL prevents Bryne from making Northstar gay or r the fact that most of those characters have little if any development. It was a positive move forward but it was a bit self congratulatory for a company that has been part of the problem.

[ChronoRogue]

Yea. That was someting dc did better. Dc said these are out LGBT characters here's what they do and why you like them. Marvel its they exist thats good enough. The LGBT rep in the xmen comes off more as teasing. Its not substance.

Agreed, sadly. When was the last time one of the LGBT+ characters played a major role in the X-Books? Only one that gets any real chance to shine is Mystique and her marriage was kept tongue in cheek for most of her publication history.

I also find the LGBT relationships in the X-Men to be wholly shallow. I think Kyle and Northstar embody this the most. I don't mind them as a couple and even appreciate them as a mutant-human pairing, especially in this era but their entire romance was heavily publicized and felt very rushed. Even now, they tend to get written a bit... too idyllic (?) for me, to feel like a real couple. not that they've never argued but still... billy and teddy are sorta of the same way but even there gillen managed to spice it up with the "did you wish me into existence?" plot and prodigy kiss drama.

To date, the most organic LGBT relationship is probably PADs Shatterstar and Rictor for me. PAD wasn't afraid to put this couple through the ringer, which helped it feel human. Doesn't hurt that both characters have known each other for decades before they got into each others pants...

[Anduinel]

I also find the LGBT relationships in the X-Men to be wholly shallow. I think Kyle and Northstar embody this the most. I don't mind them as a couple and even appreciate them as a mutant-human pairing, especially in this era but their entire romance was heavily publicized and felt very rushed. Even now, they tend to get written a bit... too idyllic (?) for me, to feel like a real couple.

I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I do like Kyle and Northstar's background is *such* a trauma-fest, that I'm a bit like, "Just let the guy have one area of his life where he can be happy for five minutes." On the other, Kyle not having much character of his own is a problem. A recent podcast hit the narrative issues right on the head when it pointed out that Kyle's character revolves entirely around Northstar - even his job revolves (revolved? He seems to be working off Krakoa now) around Northstar. Lois Lane, MJ Watson, Steve Trevor, Lee Forestor - these were all "normal" partners to superheroes who had their own place in the world outside of their love interests, and it's really something necessary to the super-civvie dynamic. Even putting Kyle on X-Corp and letting him use his PR experience there would give him something to do besides be Northstar's husband.

[xhx23x]

I'm of two minds about it. On the one hand, I do like Kyle and Northstar's background is *such* a trauma-fest, that I'm a bit like, "Just let the guy have one area of his life where he can be happy for five minutes." On the other, Kyle not having much character of his own is a problem. A recent podcast hit the narrative issues right on the head when it pointed out that Kyle's character revolves entirely around Northstar - even his job revolves (revolved? He seems to be working off Krakoa now) around Northstar. Lois Lane, MJ Watson, Steve Trevor, Lee Forestor - these were all "normal" partners to superheroes who had their own place in the world outside of their love interests, and it's really something necessary to the super-civvie dynamic. Even putting Kyle on X-Corp and letting him use his PR experience there would give him something to do besides be Northstar's husband.

I think that sadly most Queer Romance partners have inherited the love interest problem that plagued most female characters in comics for years, which I for the most part give it a pass for now but yeah it would be good if it felt that the majority of them felt a little more well rounded.

Some years ago I remember someone mentioning that Kyle felt more like a character before Northstar joined the X-Men full time, but I can't confirm that since Alpha Flight in general has never interest me at all, but as someone who was only introduced to him in the X-Books he always felt like an add on to Northstar and nothing more.

I think that's we'll be having this debate for a while when it comes to inclusion in general. Do we celebrate when they do even if it's just scraps? Do we demand more and then risk of looking unreasonable? Can we all even agree at what good representation is to us as a group? I just don't see it being anything but rocky till the big companies are willing to fully commit.

[Anduinel]

I think that sadly most Queer Romance partners have inherited the love interest problem that plagued most female characters in comics for years, which I for the most part give it a pass for now but yeah it would be good if it felt that the majority of them felt a little more well rounded.

Some years ago I remember someone mentioning that Kyle felt more like a character before Northstar joined the X-Men full time, but I can't confirm that since Alpha Flight in general has never interest me at all, but as someone who was only introduced to him in the X-Books he always felt like an add on to Northstar and nothing more.

I think that's we'll be having this debate for a while when it comes to inclusion in general. Do we celebrate when they do even if it's just scraps? Do we demand more and then risk of looking unreasonable? Can we all even agree at what good representation is to us as a group? I just don't see it being anything but rocky till the big companies are willing to fully commit.

Kyle actually wasn't an Alpha Flight character. He was introduced in the comics after Northstar came aboard as an X-Man, in the Fraction era circa the Sisterhood storyline. And he had his little mini-arc over time about getting used to the superhero aspect of Northstar's life - a bit predictable, but executed well enough. But, imo, the next step to that needed to be either integrating Kyle more into the X-Men or giving him a more distinct role that intersected with them somehow, a la Trish Tilby. Of course the problem with that is that Northstar is a C-lister (and I say that as a Northstar fan), so not a lot of writers devote their limited page space to him unless they really care about either Northstar as a character or queer rep in general. And even fewer are going to cede that page space to a character who's a satellite to a C-lister. But then, if no one puts in the space to make Kyle better rounded, he remains nothing more than a satellite, and no one wants to give him space because he's not interesting, and so on the cycle goes.

[xhx23x]

Kyle actually wasn't an Alpha Flight character. He was introduced in the comics after Northstar came aboard as an X-Man, in the Fraction era circa the Sisterhood storyline. And he had his little mini-arc over time about getting used to the superhero aspect of Northstar's life - a bit predictable, but executed well enough. But, imo, the next step to that needed to be either integrating Kyle more into the X-Men or giving him a more distinct role that intersected with them somehow, a la Trish Tilby. Of course the problem with that is that Northstar is a C-lister (and I say that as a Northstar fan), so not a lot of writers devote their limited page space to him unless they really care about either Northstar as a character or queer rep in general. And even fewer are going to cede that page space to a character who's a satellite to a C-lister. But then, if no one puts in the space to make Kyle better rounded, he's remains nothing more than a satellite, and no one wants to give him space because he's not interesting, and so on the cycle goes.

From how they acted I thought he was introduced prior to Fraction, my bad. But yeah it's an annoying circle that seems to never really stop.

[Exodus]

Ok lemme clarify… I’d like LGBT characters that actually do something or have something resembling an arc. Right now it’s just checking boxes. I’m also not going to count Kate until it’s followed up on, because you KNOW Marvel would have mentioned her in their Pride comic that just came out if it was official.

100 percent agree. There is nothing more annoying atm that blink-and-you-miss-it-teases about queerness in popular culture. For example: the big Loki reveal in his serious,...seriously?!?!?! Same with Kitty Pryde? Why is Marvel so coy about it?! I don't get it. Just let her be bi! Why does it have to be teased without making it explicit? She can be bi and date mainly men but let her have some fun with girls too.

Same with Wolverine, Scott, and Jean. Would be so wrong to be explicit about it that they like to meet all three of them in a horizontal position?!?! it is 2021 for Christ's sake. USA, stop being so prude. People are kinky.

[KylunFan]

From how they acted I thought he was introduced prior to Fraction, my bad. But yeah it's an annoying circle that seems to never really stop.

It certainly wasn't just you.

I read Marjorie Liu's run and thought it would be interesting to read more about Kyle/Northstar after the wedding just to discover he'd been in about 10 issues in total prior to the wedding issue.

I really wish someone would bother to give him a personality, I felt like we might have got some of that in X-Factor before the cancellation took it way too soon.

[xhx23x]

It certainly wasn't just you.

I read Marjorie Liu's run and thought it would be interesting to read more about Kyle/Northstar after the wedding just to discover he'd been in about 10 issues in total prior to the wedding issue.

I really wish someone would bother to give him a personality, I felt like we might have got some of that in X-Factor before the cancellation took it way too soon.

They did seem to be building up to that. Like it was nice to see their dynamic more. But as long as Northstar is placed in books with a big cast, Kyle will always get the short end of the stick.

[maxhilary]

The Northstar/Kyle marriage was a mistake imo. We as readers didn't have enough time to really see their relationship developed and Kyle get more fleshed out. A human love interest just doesn't work for superheroes who don't have their own solo books; there just isn't enough room to develop the humans. In the Claremont era there were less mutants overall and the storytelling itself was different, so there were more opportunities for supporting human characters to shine. But that hasn't been the case in a long time. The marriage completely sapped Northstar's future possibilities and he got limboed shortly after for so long. It also eliminated any possibly dating choices for him. A marriage makes sense for Billy and Teddy or Scott and Jean who have a considerable history together and have had enough time for readers to get invested in them.

I also don't think it's fair to compare all of DC's queer content to just the X-books. I know this is a mutants thread, but outside the X-books Marvel has been doing a pretty good job. I mean, Empyre for one thing, capping off in a marriage between 2 queer characters. Confirming both Noh-varr and Hercules together. MAC has a mini out. GOTG is the most queer team in all of Marvel right now. Runaways. Dr. Charlene in Immortal Hulk and its current spinoff. Frankly, DC doesn't even come close. The difference between the LGBT character threads on cbr says enough lol. I've been just as frustrated about the X-books' lack of queer content as the rest of you, but Marvel as a whole doesn't deserve to be counted out because of that. And I didn't find the Pride issue to be self congratulatory at all; they SHOULD feature their history of queer content and moments, because they have enough of them to warrant a segment. I didn't even recognize some of the smaller bubbles of past moments towards the end of the intro. And almost all the characters featured in Marvel's issue are actually in books at the time of publishing.

[ChronoRogue]

I compare Kyle and Northtars rushed marriage to BP and Storms in some ways. I like Black Panther and Storm as a couple now, but they were handled horrendously in the build up the marriage to the extent it put me off on them for a long time.

The marriage itself was all just theatrics so Marvel could pat themselves on the back on establishing a high-profile black couple, but without actually investing any time and effort to naturally and organically develop it.

I feel like Northstar and Kyle was basically 2.0 of that, as a rushed relationship without much build up. We've gotten to know Kyle more since the marriage but unlike BP he doesn't have his own history or book to properly develop him so he's stuck in this weird limbo. IMHO Kyle needs something outside of Northstar to help define him as a person. As Anduinel pointed; Lois has being a reporter, MJ has modeling, Steve is a military officer, what drives Kyle to be Kyle... ? If I was a writer, I'd have him be somewhat associated with Northstars interests (as a competitive skier) but wholly his own to give him more personality. kyle being a competitive figure skater that meets Jean-Paul at an olympic event and sets off a friendly rivalry would've been so cute, wait that sounds like a fan fiction i've read... lmao

[Silvermoth]

They can still do something with them but I agree, it just doesn’t feel real at this point