Why aren't Batman (Bruce) & Robin (any Robin) as frequent as they used to be?

[MajorHoy]

But he didn't became Robin until 2008.

That's only 5-6 years in the mantle and he didn't even had a solo book during that time.

And it took how many years before Dick or even Jason had their own "solo" book?
Best Dick could do was a solo feature in Star Spangled Comics starting in 1947. He didn't earn his own regular solo book until well into his career as Nightwing.

[Aahz]

That were different times, back in the 40s most comics were anthologies, and hardly any characters had solo books. They didn't start to give "minor" charactets solos untill the mid 80s afaik.

And Dick was at least Robin for more than 40 years, and not 5, he had solos stories in Star Spangled Comics in the late 40s and early 50s and in Batman, Batman Family and Detective Comics in the 70s.

Jason was also still the new Robin when he was killed of and was imo also killed off way to early (he had Afaik a single solo story as robin as Back up in an Annual).

Dick and Jason had also consistently appeared in the main batman books, opposed to Damian who post flashpoint mostly only appeared in Batman and Robin.

[PurpleGlovez]

The point is, the "Damian era" was finished after Morrison's run ended. As far as Snyder and King were concerned he might as well have not existed. Damian just didn't have a place in the whole new Batman Eternal universe that Snyder and Tynion were building under Mark Doyle, and it's clear Duke and Harper were supposed to be the new Robins-in-spirit as a previous poster pointed out. But DC wanted to have their cake and eat it too, so they just had to let Tomasi bring Damian back, in a story that was completely ignored in all the other Bat-books as it was going on. The whole situation was just bizarre. I'm just saying, if you really want to leave your mark on the Batman mythos - make your own Robin. Non-Robin sidekicks just don't matter in the long run with very few exceptions.

[bat39]

The point is, the "Damian era" was finished after Morrison's run ended. As far as Snyder and King were concerned he might as well have not existed. Damian just didn't have a place in the whole new Batman Eternal universe that Snyder and Tynion were building under Mark Doyle, and it's clear Duke and Harper were supposed to be the new Robins-in-spirit as a previous poster pointed out. But DC wanted to have their cake and eat it too, so they just had to let Tomasi bring Damian back, in a story that was completely ignored in all the other Bat-books as it was going on. The whole situation was just bizarre. I'm just saying, if you really want to leave your mark on the Batman mythos - make your own Robin. Non-Robin sidekicks just don't matter in the long run with very few exceptions.

I must say, the precedent of every major writer on a Bat-book creating their own Robin is not one I'd really like to see established

Then again, I suppose it doesn't matter that much when the Robin concept itself isn't as important as it once used to be.

[Fergus]

Agreed. Both Duke and Harper feel like they were supposed to be Robins. I think Snyder wanted them to be "Lark" and "Blue Bird," other bird themed sidekicks who aren't actually Robins.





Doesn't help that "Signal" makes me thing "Virtue Signal."

The idea of a black Robin does back to Tim Burton casting Marlon Wayans for his final Bat film, which was never produced.

There's a lot to dissect with that one.
Tim Burton cast a black Robin
Tim Burton also despised the robin character and fought tooth and nail to remove Robin from his movies [ the story boards for the 1st movie shows the scene where Dicks folks die. They are available on Youtube if anyone's curious]

marlon as Robin. I'd pay to see that

[Fergus]

I must say, the precedent of every major writer on a Bat-book creating their own Robin is not one I'd really like to see established

Then again, I suppose it doesn't matter that much when the Robin concept itself isn't as important as it once used to be.

It does matter since even if Robin isn't important these characters need a home after the writers run on batman ends.

look at the Batverse, so many allies running around only two of them are actually leading their own titles [Dick and Damian]

Jason is working hard holding up a few anthologies. The rest?
Where is Gotham Girl? Harper briefly popped in but most are simply on the shelf waiting and collecting dust.

DC should put a cap on original bat sidekick till it finds a home for the excess. Batman is turning into an episode of Hoarders sidekicks special with the number he keeps collecting.

All those characters on the shelve/in limited use have fans who get more and more frustrated as time goes on.
This is why there's so much hostility within the bat fandom

Writers should use the current characters. The last writer to leave a mark [ie new character] worthy of note was Morrison and he didn't intend to. he wanted to put things back as he found it.

Now they are trying to introduce their own Damian

The irony of it all.

[Fergus]

But with Damian still being new to the mantle and quite popular. It was not really a good time for the switch.

If they had made him Robin, he would have been for many people probaly "the reason why we can't have Damian back", and that would have been also pretty damaging for the character.

So they brought Damian back exiled from the bat books moving him to the Superman editorial. Used Duke as the Batman's new sidekick which pissing off Tim Drake fans. This ended up damaging for Duke's character.

[Lal]

The point is, the "Damian era" was finished after Morrison's run ended. As far as Snyder and King were concerned he might as well have not existed. Damian just didn't have a place in the whole new Batman Eternal universe that Snyder and Tynion were building under Mark Doyle, and it's clear Duke and Harper were supposed to be the new Robins-in-spirit as a previous poster pointed out. But DC wanted to have their cake and eat it too, so they just had to let Tomasi bring Damian back, in a story that was completely ignored in all the other Bat-books as it was going on. The whole situation was just bizarre. I'm just saying, if you really want to leave your mark on the Batman mythos - make your own Robin. Non-Robin sidekicks just don't matter in the long run with very few exceptions.

I don't think that making them Robin would have changed anything, just antagonize people against them.
They already received all the spotlight and attention in the main book, just not the name, and what would that name give them?
From what I see, it seems that both weren't too well received by the general audience (it seems that Harper was actually hated following the Robin and Batman storyline).
Making them Robin wouldn't have changed it or made them loved or popular all of a sudden. DC probably would still prefer to use other bat characters such as Damian in outside media or in events like leviathan or metal, because he's Batman's son, and I don't think that just declaring they are Robin would have let them have successful solo ongoing titles like Damian has right now.
There are a ton of bat characters, and every new author just adds more. The outcome is that many just fade. Even TIm, a Robin for 20 years, has a problem right now.

I think that the Robin mantle is meaningful because the Robins who held it were meaningful to the batman myth.
Being Robin didn't really helped Stephanie, and I don't think it would have helped Harper or Duke.

[bat39]

There's a lot to dissect with that one.
Tim Burton cast a black Robin
Tim Burton also despised the robin character and fought tooth and nail to remove Robin from his movies [ the story boards for the 1st movie shows the scene where Dicks folks die. They are available on Youtube if anyone's curious]

marlon as Robin. I'd pay to see that

Yeah, IMO, Tim Burton is the reason why Robin isn't as crucial to the Batman franchise as he once was.

Once Dick went off to college (and later, co-founded the New Teen Titans), Batman did become more of a solo character. But Robin was always a presence in the books. Eventually, the desire to have a Robin by Batman's side led to the creation of Jason Todd (and Dick becoming Nightwing).

Year One gave us a solo Batman and showed us how 'cool' Batman could be on his own (as someone mentioned earlier in this thread). But Year One was a limited flashback story...the present-day stories rebooted Jason Todd and Robin remained a constant presence for the next couple of years until he was killed off.

The same year Robin was killed off in the comics, 1989, the concept was dealt a bigger blow with the Burton Batman movie. For the first time, we had a Batman adaptation outside the comics which excluded Robin. From the days of Adam West and Burt Ward, the popular conception of Batman across the globe shifted to the solo avenger of the night.

Not long after, inspired by the success of the movie, we got LOTDK, a series focused almost exclusively on a pre-Robin Batman, and which kicked off the soon-to-be immensely popular trend of Year One-era Batman stories sans Robin.

BTAS had Robin, but BTAS was also inspired in a lot of ways by Burton's film, and that probably gave them the confidence to focus on Batman as a solo character for the most part.

One thing leads to another, and over a decade later, Christopher Nolan flat out says that he's never including Robin in his trilogy!

There are a lot of factors over decades which whittled down Robin's significance...but I'd say Tim Burton dealt the concept the biggest blow by getting the 'solo Batman' idea rolling outside comics for the first time.

[Digifiend]

It does matter since even if Robin isn't important these characters need a home after the writers run on batman ends.

look at the Batverse, so many allies running around only two of them are actually leading their own titles [Dick and Damian]

Jason is working hard holding up a few anthologies. The rest?
Where is Gotham Girl? Harper briefly popped in but most are simply on the shelf waiting and collecting dust.

Gotham Girl is totally out of place due to her powers, I can understand why nobody's used her since King's Batman ended.

[Aahz]

So they brought Damian back exiled from the bat books moving him to the Superman editorial. Used Duke as the Batman's new sidekick which pissing off Tim Drake fans. This ended up damaging for Duke's character.

Do you think leaving Damian dead (or bringing him back but taking Robin away from him) and making Duke the new Robin would have resulted in a more positive response?

[JBatmanFan05]

There are a lot of factors over decades which whittled down Robin's significance...but I'd say Tim Burton dealt the concept the biggest blow by getting the 'solo Batman' idea rolling outside comics for the first time.

This is a true and insightful comment. I think Benjamin Melniker/Michael Uslan/Moore/Miller/COIE (among other wider cultural/entertainment forces) helped trigger a bit of a shift in WB's views in the early/mid 80s there which in turn led to them picking Burton which lead to darker solo Batman cemented on the big screen in a big cultural blow to Robin's significance.

[Korath]

Gotham Girl is totally out of place due to her powers, I can understand why nobody's used her since King's Batman ended.

Plus King ruined her and the least of his run will be carried forward the better. Like Selina should never become more than a fling for Batman nowadays, their relation his far too toxic.

Regarding Duke and Harper, I actually prefer them as Signal and Bluebird, I feel it helps make them very distinct, if writers put a little effort into it.

[JackJustMetMartin]

Dick and Damian as the dynamic duo worked so well because it suited the characters. They complimented each other, I think it could be a Bruce related issue. Years ago he was caring, kind, compassionate and just a really good genuine person. In recent years he's been portrayed as more antisocial, which doesn't lend itself well to a partnership.

[Fergus]

Do you think leaving Damian dead (or bringing him back but taking Robin away from him) and making Duke the new Robin would have resulted in a more positive response?

Leaving Damian dead would not have resulted in a lot of negativity directed at Duke since Morrison was very vocal about his plans for Damian.

Bringing him back and taking Robin from him would have had a negative impact on Duke

However those weren't the only two options.

They could have shared the mantle. Duke filling in for Damian as he goes on his year of Redemption [like he did in RSOB] Tim is currently a fill- in Robin for Damian .

However the hostility towards Duke and Harper was primarily from Tim Drake fans [on this site anyway] not from Damian fans.

Personally I'm disappointed that the budding friendship between Damian and Duke hasn't been touched since Robin War.