S.W.O.R.D. #6 Review/Spoiler Thread - A Queen and a Witch

[Covetous_One]

Lol at how defensive the Wanda/gate answer was. Almost as defensive as the Captain America (who always come off as a self-absorbed douchebag).

The truth is they forgot and messed up by not including the flower, so they now have to giver some super-complicated answer.

And the truth about Captain America is that it's hard to make the Avengers care about X problems because if they did, those books would become X books themselves.

Not necessarily, an Avengers member can guest star in X-books. Wolverine and Magick appear everywhere and those aren’t considered X-books. Marvel editorial just doesn’t seem to know how to approach it.

[Grunty]

I just read about the Life Force stuff that happened in Children's Crusade as I was unfamiliar with it. My thinking has always been that Wanda could do the spell again and that's why many mutants fear/hate her, but I guess she can't? Maybe that will be touched upon as we move forward. In Empyre it's clear she's looking for redemption and I hope this gets sorted out for her.

(Warning the following post contains stream of consciousness escalation).

As much as i dislike to bring it up, because the whole storyline and character assassination involved still annoys me today, but Bishop was written into successfully killing 7+ billion people in an alternate future of the marvel universe. Which far outweights depowering 1 million mutants (i only recently learned they retconned the number down from 16 million, apparently to make it more believable that they could repower them via cloning quickly) and the indirect deaths that occured as side effect. Though with outweighting i do not mean that the lesser of the two can simply be ignored or declared trivial just because worse things had been done.
But the point is, that we have two heros doing something horrible on a global scale with massive casulties, in a moment of madness and yet one is completely absolved of his act by now, despite the much larger scale, while the other is constantly dragged into a storyline where someone brings it up, throws it in her face and the reader is supposed to share that sentiment with the accusers.

I'm not even sure if they ever "excused" Bishop's actions, though i faintly recall they did, but the fact remains that they relatively quickly brushed the dirt under the carpet for him once he was back, because they wanted to use him as moraly sound hero again, while Wanda is still used as scape goat for what was ultimately a stupid editorial mandate.

And the most damming thing about both of these actions is. Bishop could do it again too. All he required was a time machine, which ironicaly are not that uncommon in the marvel universe, the rest was entirely on his mental ability to plan and execute his actions using said machine.

So what's the actual difference here between the danger of Bishop and the danger of Wanda?

Presentation, attention and visible consequences.

Bishop's mass murder happend over one maybe two pages in a comic of Cable. Where we were informed via text how he quickly stole several weapons of mass destruction via his time machine and unleashed them on the world. Nuclear, biological and chemical weapons. He got them with ease and he unleashed them without remorse.

Wanda's depowering was presented in multiple titles, as the fallout of a big crossover and in fine detail, with a lot of personal stories being given. Which would then be continued over the comming months with increasing number of further personal stories.

Therefor Wanda's act is much more worthwhile for the drama the editors and writers want to create to bring up than what Bishop did.

Infact we actualy have another direct comparison for what Wanda did. Back during the 2000's there was an X-men storyline in which the High Evolutionary and Mister Sinister depowered all mutants on earth, which in universe lasted for weeks if not months.

Funny enough they even allready had the whole deal with Blob suffering from having ton of oversized skin from suddently losing his bulk, but strangely he was more annoyed than suicidal as he was presented in Generation M.

Also that was before Morrison decided to casualy kill off 16 million mutants with Genosha. So with 17 million mutants getting depowered the number of mutants who died from their powers suddently switching off should have been 16 times more catastrophic than what Wanda did. Right?

Yet we were never informed of such massive casulties. Infact many X-men seemed almost resolved trying to come to terms with it until discovering the source of the depowering which could be deactivated and the fact that many mutants are suffering from it (Wolverine prominently, but also many genoshan mutates who's bodies weren't handling the depowering well).

And when something similar happend at a much smaller scale 5 real world years later (barely 1 year in universe) it was suddently the worst world changing thing ever.

So what was the true difference here?

Presentation, attention and visible consequences.

Hence why Wanda is the "evil pretender" of mutantkind while Mister Sinister, who was responcible for a similar event happening at 16 times the scale and who is actualy pretending to be a mutant, by having stolen a dead mutants X-gene (and preventing his revival with that), is sitting on the ruling system of their government, being able to decide things for the very mutants he tormented, killed and experimented on for centuries.

And just like Bishop he is entirely capable of repeating that act. Infact with his DNA samples being used to repower and revive mutants, he might allready have a button to a kill switch that could unleash something which would make M-Day look like a bad hair day.

But apparently Wanda is still the one person not only the characters in universe are incapable of forgiving but the reader aswell?

For the original writers and editorial it was just a fancy idea to fill 2 months of comics. For the later writers and editors it was something they wanted to exploit for all it's dramatic worth (and to limit the scope of the X-men out of personal opinion towards how things should be).
But by doing so they created years of horrible comics and overall direction, which never had any long term worth and under modern priorities has no worth to be used for even more than a single movie and if then only to be resolved in the next rather than to be the direction for the MCU to go on for years.

And all this dragging down and along of Wanda as the scape goat for the last 15 years of mostly terrible direction for the X-men (we got a handfull of good books out of it, but no worthwhile overall direction) is to me emblematic of an overall problem the Marvel comics as a company had for years. The inability to admit wrong doing and correct it at once, rather than fall into a sunken cost fallacy and try to keep it going, just because they made a big deal out of it.

So as a reader i refuse to take this serious. I refuse to accept that for 15 years they keep dragging down one of their currently most prominent female heros, because an editor in chief wanted the X-men and mutants to be something he wanted them to be rather than what they have evolved to be. Followed by the head of the company wanting to drag down the X-men and mutants even further because his company sold away their movie rights for cheap, long before the MCU was even a glint in the eyes of Kevin Feige and Jon Favreau.

Because i see that there is no logical in universe reason for it, compared to acts long forgotten or forgiven which were as bad if not worse than what they made the other character do, it's just a difference of presentation, attention and visible consequences.

I like a continuity that is taken serious and not just brushed aside, but i also know that sometimes things need to be forgotten, reversed or removed from continuity and i don't excuse sloppy writing under the pretense of trying to maintain continuity, especialy if they do it so obviously selective for personal or in office politics reason, that i feel offended at the notion of being expected to just accept it for something i find unsatisfying.

Wanda and M-Day should have been reversed a long time ago, especialy before it could even reach the point of AvX, at least when Reed Richard put the universe back together. But then movie rights made them go right back to having mutants as punching bag of in office politics.

So now we are still having characters in universe blame Wanda and that needs to stop NOW. Especialy in times when comics are increasingly selling worse and they are wasting their chance at profiting from synergy, not because of logical reason, but the inability to see and/or admit that the direction they forced the character in for almost two decades was a mistake.

It often appears to me like the comic division of Marvel is still taking itself far too serious, because the source of the all the successfull movies, toys, cartoons and video games are the storylines the company published in the past.
But they are not the core of the company anymore. Their product is only a niche now, an add-on to what people are actualy consuming and enjoying on large scale. And most of the people in charge are not those who produced what is getting adapted anymore, for most part they are lording over the intellectual property and unsuccessfully trying to leave their mark on other people's more successfull creation.

And perhaps that's where the mentality comes from that they should not only drag bad storylines and story telling along, but even build up on it further, while moving it away from what the larger audience actualy expects of or likes about their properties. All while sales are flundering or decreasing and their very existence is hanging on a shoestring.

[JB]

How am I hand waving away Wanda's actions? I am merely pointing out that the murder of millions is more heinous than the depowering of millions. Both directly impacted the mutant community as a whole.

Both Cassandra nova and Wanda are guilty of horrendous and devastating attacks on the mutant community. Isn't that enough condemnation of Wanda?

At this point it seems Wanda is also condemning herself as seen in Empyre, and she still wants to make things right. I want the whole thing solved so we can move forward.

[loke13]

How am I hand waving away Wanda's actions? I am merely pointing out that the murder of millions is more heinous than the depowering of millions. Both directly impacted the mutant community as a whole.

Both Cassandra nova and Wanda are guilty of horrendous and devastating attacks on the mutant community. Isn't that enough condemnation of Wanda?

Wanda depowered/killed/tramutized mutants across the entire multiverse Jbenito is saying you're intentionally ignoring that context when making your comparison to Genosha. If we're talking purely scope wise Wanda dwarfs anything Cassandra Nova has ever done.

So yeah Wanda didn't "just' depower a million mutants.

[RamaBird]

Not necessarily, an Avengers member can guest star in X-books. Wolverine and Magick appear everywhere and those aren’t considered X-books. Marvel editorial just doesn’t seem to know how to approach it.

In order for the Avengers to be taken seriously, it'd need to be more than a"guest" appearance/storyline though. For example, let's say a new Capt America book came out, and issue 3 dealt with him helping out mutant communities and their issues. Great, right? However, after said issue the book went back to Avengers issues, and things like ORCHIS aren't taken seriously by him. In that case we go back to the same issue that the Avengers ignore the real problems in mutant communities. That's why his guest appearances (which are usually highlighted as positive) tend to piss XFans off. It's part of the problem of these big franchises existing in the same universe while needing to have different narratives.

Wolverine/Magik can guest star in Avengers, and if they are shown ignoring an Avengers/human crisis, they don't come off as hypocrites since neither one is know as the "morally" right character which Captain America is. A character like Black Widow wouldn't come off as a hypocrite either even though she's a hero like Wolverine/Magik.

[gonnagiveittoya]

What your proposing is that all non-X books become X-Books

[RamaBird]

At this point it seems Wanda is also condemning herself as seen in Empyre, and she still wants to make things right. I want the whole thing solved so we can move forward.

It can be solved but I doubt we'll move forward. Love it or Hate it, that storyline is iconic. One way or another, iconic storylines play themselves over and over again in comics.

[GenericUsername]

I'm happy with the different narratives. It creates variety. And it's not like both sides are completely incapable of handling their own stories.

[RamaBird]

What your proposing is that all non-X books become X-Books

Actually, I'd like to see them exist in different universes. Some many problems would be solved that way. Like anytime the threat is a mutant threat, the Avengers are for the most part absolutely useless. When the threat is an Avengers villain, then the XMEN (except Logan and Ororo) become useless too. Or how come mutants are feared but all other super heroes are loved?

Imagine a real life Captain America that is always portrayed as oblivious to the issues facing non-white people. That's how I see this.

But since it's the same universe, it's created an unwinnable situation for Captain America when it comes to mutants.

[JB]

It can be solved but I doubt we'll move forward. Love it or Hate it, that storyline is iconic. One way or another, iconic storylines play themselves over and over again in comics.

Yeah you're right. As long as it's well written, like the Erik/Wanda scene in this issue, I'm interested.

[BAS]

Wanda depowered/killed/tramutized mutants across the entire multiverse Jbenito is saying you're intentionally ignoring that context when making your comparison to Genosha. If we're talking purely scope wise Wanda dwarfs anything Cassandra Nova has ever done.

So yeah Wanda didn't "just' depower a million mutants.

Wait a minute, you're saying she depowered mutants in the entire Multiverse? I don't recall that ever being the case. We're only talking about earthbound mutants. Since when have X-Men comics represented the multi-verse of mutants, those earthbound and those in galaxies far far away?

If that's the case, then yeah, Wanda rivals Thanos.

[AJpyro]

Wait a minute, you're saying she depowered mutants in the entire Multiverse? I don't recall that ever being the case. We're only talking about earthbound mutants. Since when have X-Men comics represented the multi-verse of mutants, those earthbound and those in galaxies far far away?

If that's the case, then yeah, Wanda rivals Thanos.

Oh no thats' definitely the case. I think it was in Endangered Species that mentioned the Multiverse.

It was a jerk move to make things bleak and completely unnecessary.

[Grunty]

Wait a minute, you're saying she depowered mutants in the entire Multiverse? I don't recall that ever being the case. We're only talking about earthbound mutants. Since when have X-Men comics represented the multi-verse of mutants, those earthbound and those in galaxies far far away?

If that's the case, then yeah, Wanda rivals Thanos.

I think there was a single one-shot as part of Decimation were Beast traveled around the world and even the multiverse and discovered that Wanda depowered ALL mutants in creation past, present and future. Also that there is no cure for it what ever scientific or magical.

So basicly just the editors hammering in. THIS IS FINAL. NO EASY WAYS OUT. MUTANTS ARE DOOOOOOOOOMED!

But the whole thing was quickly ignored by many writers, especialy those of the Ultimate universe and other stories from the multiverse like Exiles books, where the whole thing never happened. So the whole thing can be disregarded as not matching continuity anymore.

[carmoc1234]

Oh no thats' definitely the case. I think it was in Endangered Species that mentioned the Multiverse.

It was a jerk move to make things bleak and completely unnecessary.

but the problem with that is they said that she affected the multiverse and never actually showed it. then when ever mutants appeared in these non 616 stories everything was fine, and was never referenced again.

[AJpyro]

but the problem with that is they said that she affected the multiverse and never actually showed it. then when ever mutants appeared in these non 616 stories everything was fine, and was never referenced again.

Yeah but thats just part of the experience. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence...until its retconned.