Way of X 3 Review/Spoiler thread. The Joy of X

[Grunty]

This series is just so… necessary. Forming a society is MESSY and Si doesn’t pull any punches.

Especialy when the society is founded, dominated and ruled by what could be considered the elite of a caste system based on super powers and martial abilities above any other qualification, that also leaves over 90% of the population essentialy as casteless and dead weight.

Because unlike societies throughout real life history, what ever nomadic, monarchic, feudal, imperial or democracy in which the ruling classes are essentialy depending on their subjects for support (taken by force, law or agreement), what ever it's money, food, tools, construction, or military service, the nation of Krakoa has a magic island that not only provides everything the ruling and warrior elite requires for their upkeep, freeing them of depending on their subjects for support, it also provides said subjects with everything they need, leaving them without any kind of role in society or goal in life.

And for everything the island itself can not provide, they have a dedicated small set of "usefull" people who can create these goods or services out of nowhere instead.

Basicly it's a society in which the rulers, warrior elite and specialized craftsman do not require the entire rest of the population anymore, but said population still depends on them for protection and sustaining their daily living standard.
Because the nation provides for them, but does not require them to provide for it.

Not only that, but unlike real life were in a natural healthy state all humans are relatively equal in what they can achieve (some have a bit of an edge or disadvantage via physical or mental qualities of course but in theory all humans have the same basic tools given to them by nature) and it's only when social, environmental and economic factors come into play that things become truely difficult, unfair or complicated, mutants are in fact unequal by nature, thanks to the super power lottery.

Everyone's inofficial worth in the mutant society of Krakoa is depending on what powers CHANCE have given them when their X-gene activated. It defines what ever they are "needed" for society or "unneeded" and most mutants are by all accounts "unneeded" except to bolster their numbers and produce more mutants who could have the powers to be "needed".

To twist the words of JFK: "And so, my fellow Krakoans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. Which is NOTHING. Unless you have some cool usefull powers or have plenty of combat experience. So get hammered and make more mutants, because what else is there to do?"

Which also puts all the achievements of "mutantkind" in this current status quo into a pretty shady light.

It wasn't the collective effort of mutantkind which terraformed Mars. It was a small handfull of "needed" mutants who had the necessary powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which gives the galactic community a new special metal. It was a small handfull of "needed" teleporters who could reach the source of the material with their powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which allows them to come back from the dead. It is a small handfull of "needed" mutants who can produce the clone bodies and download minds from cerebro into them.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which produces the drugs that make them rich. It's plant automatons made from the magic island they are living on.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind to protect their nation. It's thanks to a small handfull of "needed" mutants with the right martial powers or combat experience.

Sure normal humans would have likely required generations to gather resources, set up machinery, collect ice meteors, build protected homes, maintain supply chains and so forth to eventualy terraform Mars. But at the end of the day millions would have participated in the effort and billions could look at it and feel like in their own small way they did their part.

Meanwhile the common mutant is left with once again seeing their handfull of gods show off, while they are left as dead weight who didn't participate or added anything to what has been done.

In theory. By trying to impress the rest of the galaxy with their "made a planet hospital in an hour" act, they once again actualy devalued the majority of their own population. By showing what their few can do, they just highlight how they don't need their many.

So yeah. This focus on the cracks of the seeming "paradise" of Krakoa was long overdue.

[Striderblack01]

Which also puts all the achievements of "mutantkind" in this current status quo into a pretty shady light.

It wasn't the collective effort of mutantkind which terraformed Mars. It was a small handfull of "needed" mutants who had the necessary powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which gives the galactic community a new special metal. It was a small handfull of "needed" teleporters who could reach the source of the material with their powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which allows them to come back from the dead. It is a small handfull of "needed" mutants who can produce the clone bodies and download minds from cerebro into them.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which produces the drugs that make them rich. It's plant automatons made from the magic island they are living on.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind to protect their nation. It's thanks to a small handfull of "needed" mutants with the right martial powers or combat experience.

Sure normal humans would have likely required generations to gather resources, set up machinery, collect ice meteors, build protected homes, maintain supply chains and so forth to eventualy terraform Mars. But at the end of the day millions would have participated in the effort and billions could look at it and feel like in their own small way they did their part.

Meanwhile the common mutant is left with once again seeing their handfull of gods show off, while they are left as dead weight who didn't participate or added anything to what has been done.

In theory. By trying to impress the rest of the galaxy with their "made a planet hospital in an hour" act, they once again actualy devalued the majority of their own population. By showing what their few can do, they just highlight how they don't need their many.

So yeah. This focus on the cracks of the seeming "paradise" of Krakoa was long overdue.

...wow.

I guess the common man also felt like dead weight when Doom created the Time Platform, or Reed recreated the Universe from scratch?

...

[gonnagiveittoya]

Because the average New Yorker is not immortal

[jwatson]

Especialy when the society is founded, dominated and ruled by what could be considered the elite of a caste system based on super powers and martial abilities above any other qualification, that also leaves over 90% of the population essentialy as casteless and dead weight.

Because unlike societies throughout real life history, what ever nomadic, monarchic, feudal, imperial or democracy in which the ruling classes are essentialy depending on their subjects for support (taken by force, law or agreement), what ever it's money, food, tools, construction, or military service, the nation of Krakoa has a magic island that not only provides everything the ruling and warrior elite requires for their upkeep, freeing them of depending on their subjects for support, it also provides said subjects with everything they need, leaving them without any kind of role in society or goal in life.

And for everything the island itself can not provide, they have a dedicated small set of "usefull" people who can create these goods or services out of nowhere instead.

Basicly it's a society in which the rulers, warrior elite and specialized craftsman do not require the entire rest of the population anymore, but said population still depends on them for protection and sustaining their daily living standard.
Because the nation provides for them, but does not require them to provide for it.

Not only that, but unlike real life were in a natural healthy state all humans are relatively equal in what they can achieve (some have a bit of an edge or disadvantage via physical or mental qualities of course but in theory all humans have the same basic tools given to them by nature) and it's only when social, environmental and economic factors come into play that things become truely difficult, unfair or complicated, mutants are in fact unequal by nature, thanks to the super power lottery.

Everyone's inofficial worth in the mutant society of Krakoa is depending on what powers CHANCE have given them when their X-gene activated. It defines what ever they are "needed" for society or "unneeded" and most mutants are by all accounts "unneeded" except to bolster their numbers and produce more mutants who could have the powers to be "needed".

To twist the words of JFK: "And so, my fellow Krakoans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. Which is NOTHING. Unless you have some cool usefull powers or have plenty of combat experience. So get hammered and make more mutants, because what else is there to do?"

Which also puts all the achievements of "mutantkind" in this current status quo into a pretty shady light.

It wasn't the collective effort of mutantkind which terraformed Mars. It was a small handfull of "needed" mutants who had the necessary powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which gives the galactic community a new special metal. It was a small handfull of "needed" teleporters who could reach the source of the material with their powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which allows them to come back from the dead. It is a small handfull of "needed" mutants who can produce the clone bodies and download minds from cerebro into them.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which produces the drugs that make them rich. It's plant automatons made from the magic island they are living on.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind to protect their nation. It's thanks to a small handfull of "needed" mutants with the right martial powers or combat experience.

Sure normal humans would have likely required generations to gather resources, set up machinery, collect ice meteors, build protected homes, maintain supply chains and so forth to eventualy terraform Mars. But at the end of the day millions would have participated in the effort and billions could look at it and feel like in their own small way they did their part.

Meanwhile the common mutant is left with once again seeing their handfull of gods show off, while they are left as dead weight who didn't participate or added anything to what has been done.

In theory. By trying to impress the rest of the galaxy with their "made a planet hospital in an hour" act, they once again actualy devalued the majority of their own population. By showing what their few can do, they just highlight how they don't need their many.

So yeah. This focus on the cracks of the seeming "paradise" of Krakoa was long overdue.

Sounds like you just described america and every other first world country. I thank the troops everyday they have a special set of skills that allow them to go out there and defend me and this country while i sit around getting to be petty on message boards.

[killerbee]

Mystique in 616 universe has consistently made herself quite clear that willful abandonment was involved and that she did it to save her own skin. There have been occasional hints here and there that she cares for him now, in her own way, but it’s not the last time she almost killed him. And he’s not the only kid she abandoned.

I suggest you look at the comic it happened in. The mob beat her up,she ran off. They caught up with her but she shape shifted into a villager and to prove she wasn't the demon they and demanded she throw the child off the cliff. Again if she didn't want kurt she never would of ran off with him to begin with. Yes she abandoned Graydon because he was human.

[killerbee]

I would've liked that, too. I just think there's a push at Marvel and DC these days to cover women up and de-sexify them. It's not wholly consistent yet, but it's happening. *shrugs*

I believe that. It was probably mandatory if he was going to write her she needed to be covered up.

[Grunty]

...wow.

I guess the common man also felt like dead weight when Doom created the Time Platform, or Reed recreated the Universe from scratch?

Aren't Latverians told everyday by doombots walking the streets that they are just dead weight to their ruler and that the only reason they have 3 warm meals a day, a roof over their head and basicly anything nice because of the forgiving grand alturism of the kind hearted Doctor Victor van DOOM?

Sounds like you just described america and every other first world country. I thank the troops everyday they have a special set of skills that allow them to go out there and defend me and this country while i sit around getting to be petty on message boards.

I feel the situation is highly different and besides the "hero worship" element of how a population can percieve their military forces, i don't think the comparison works very well, especialy because of factors which i think outlined well enough in my previous post even if only roughly.

Because to go into more detail would require to bring up comparisons with history and other works of fictions and my posts involving these tend to be lengthly, which might end up too much just to say "Sorry don't think that fits very well."

[Striderblack01]

Aren't Latverians told everyday by doombots walking the streets that they are just dead weight to their ruler and that the only reason they have 3 warm meals a day, a roof over their head and basicly anything nice because of the forgiving grand alturism of the kind hearted Doctor Victor van DOOM?

Wow.

Look, I don't know if you need to hear this, but just in case:
The accomplishments of Elon Musk, or Michael Jordan, or whomever don't diminish you. Everything is fine. You're going to be okay.

That said, if you really are being serious, then I'm very touched that you would care about the common mutant so much(!) that you would dismiss a historic accomplishment by their Nation, that humans like Reed or Doom could've totally single-handedly done, just because their entire population wasn't involved.

[From The Shadows]

I suggest you look at the comic it happened in. The mob beat her up,she ran off. They caught up with her but she shape shifted into a villager and to prove she wasn't the demon they and demanded she throw the child off the cliff. Again if she didn't want kurt she never would of ran off with him to begin with. Yes she abandoned Graydon because he was human.

No she didn't get beaten. Are you sure you read the comic it was in? What comic was it please? She convinced them that she wasn't a mother protecting her demon baby by tossing him off a cliff. Unless there was a retcon. She is a villain. Why is this so hard?

She is not Jennifer Lawrence people!

[Malachi]

Especialy when the society is founded, dominated and ruled by what could be considered the elite of a caste system based on super powers and martial abilities above any other qualification, that also leaves over 90% of the population essentialy as casteless and dead weight.

Because unlike societies throughout real life history, what ever nomadic, monarchic, feudal, imperial or democracy in which the ruling classes are essentialy depending on their subjects for support (taken by force, law or agreement), what ever it's money, food, tools, construction, or military service, the nation of Krakoa has a magic island that not only provides everything the ruling and warrior elite requires for their upkeep, freeing them of depending on their subjects for support, it also provides said subjects with everything they need, leaving them without any kind of role in society or goal in life.

And for everything the island itself can not provide, they have a dedicated small set of "usefull" people who can create these goods or services out of nowhere instead.

Basicly it's a society in which the rulers, warrior elite and specialized craftsman do not require the entire rest of the population anymore, but said population still depends on them for protection and sustaining their daily living standard.
Because the nation provides for them, but does not require them to provide for it.

Not only that, but unlike real life were in a natural healthy state all humans are relatively equal in what they can achieve (some have a bit of an edge or disadvantage via physical or mental qualities of course but in theory all humans have the same basic tools given to them by nature) and it's only when social, environmental and economic factors come into play that things become truely difficult, unfair or complicated, mutants are in fact unequal by nature, thanks to the super power lottery.

Everyone's inofficial worth in the mutant society of Krakoa is depending on what powers CHANCE have given them when their X-gene activated. It defines what ever they are "needed" for society or "unneeded" and most mutants are by all accounts "unneeded" except to bolster their numbers and produce more mutants who could have the powers to be "needed".

To twist the words of JFK: "And so, my fellow Krakoans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. Which is NOTHING. Unless you have some cool usefull powers or have plenty of combat experience. So get hammered and make more mutants, because what else is there to do?"

Which also puts all the achievements of "mutantkind" in this current status quo into a pretty shady light.

It wasn't the collective effort of mutantkind which terraformed Mars. It was a small handfull of "needed" mutants who had the necessary powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which gives the galactic community a new special metal. It was a small handfull of "needed" teleporters who could reach the source of the material with their powers.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which allows them to come back from the dead. It is a small handfull of "needed" mutants who can produce the clone bodies and download minds from cerebro into them.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind which produces the drugs that make them rich. It's plant automatons made from the magic island they are living on.
It isn't a collective effort of mutantkind to protect their nation. It's thanks to a small handfull of "needed" mutants with the right martial powers or combat experience.

Sure normal humans would have likely required generations to gather resources, set up machinery, collect ice meteors, build protected homes, maintain supply chains and so forth to eventualy terraform Mars. But at the end of the day millions would have participated in the effort and billions could look at it and feel like in their own small way they did their part.

Meanwhile the common mutant is left with once again seeing their handfull of gods show off, while they are left as dead weight who didn't participate or added anything to what has been done.

In theory. By trying to impress the rest of the galaxy with their "made a planet hospital in an hour" act, they once again actualy devalued the majority of their own population. By showing what their few can do, they just highlight how they don't need their many.

So yeah. This focus on the cracks of the seeming "paradise" of Krakoa was long overdue.

I agree 100%.

If someone just wished world peace into existence it wouldn't last. We need to all feel that we together have worked for it. Humans, and presuambly mutants, all must feel that they are part of it and contributating. An event like the terraforming might seem coold and be cherished now but unless it is the culmination of something that has roots in the community it will be more of a seperation of them and us.

If it was more like the Apollo program it would help build an community. We still have the astronauts, the best of the best. But they are put on the moon thanks to the work and dreams of so many. With the massive project that made it happen. Not to forget the control room that was an integral part of the trip. A structure like this would have made the terrafroming mission something that truly was an extension of Krakoa as a community for everyone.

[Chainsaw Vigilante]

I didn't care for this issue as much as the first two and I hope it doesn't go down a certain path I'm apprehensive about, but I think it works best when it shows there are no good solutions, there was less push back from Nightcrawler as there was in the previous two issues.
This series compounded by the great arrogance shown in other issues like the newest Sword issue, and the Krakoans essentially screwing up to create their greatest threat in Nimrod makes me feel that there will be a massive reckoning to be had. I hope comes back and Apocalypse joins in on that (more so now after the latest X-Men legends issue really reminded me what the character was, he was no Magneto style mutant supremacist). Honestly it would be neat seeing all the mutants and others that have felt the most betrayed and used and whose ideological warnings have been ignored all join in (Mystique, Legion, Apocalypse, the Five, Nightcrawler, the Braddock family, Franklin Richards, Sabastian Shaw, Rictor, Doug, maybe the New Mutants kids, Cortez, etc.).

[king of hybrids]

One thought that occurs is that Krakoa has a slight excuse for the glaring gap of any social services (or non-party stuff for Joe Give Thumbs) is that most of the mutants who would have been versed in the ‘develop/maintain a functioning society beyond that upper management diktats” would have mostly been on Genosha, and priority on fighters/blatant corruption and nepotism in how the resurrections are carried out is why their so far back in the queue

[Tobinator]

I'm really disappointed that every issue so far is Kurt acting like a sanctimonious douche while a side character has to lecture him about the basics of the human condition. Kurt should be a lot more well-traveled and open-minded than this. It's not even things that are unique to Krakoa. Like, just because people have safe sex doesn't mean they don't also have procreative sex, amongst other things.

[Sutekh]

If someone just wished world peace into existence it wouldn't last. We need to all feel that we together have worked for it. Humans, and presumably mutants, all must feel that they are part of it and contributing.

Something I noticed back in the 'nation-building' stuff the US went through with Iraq. It seems like you can't just *give* someone a democracy (or worse, force it upon them!). They have to choose it and want it and fight for it, and not have whatever government they already had taken away from them by force and democracy shoved at them by the people who are bombing their country.

I'm reminded of how parables work. If you tell someone something, it's just noise, and totally tied up with how much or little they think of you personally. If you drop a riddle or parable and they tease out the meaning with their own brain, it tricks them into thinking that the information you spoon-fed them in that parable *came from their own brain* and is therefore totally trustworthy.

I don't even see it as a problem with Krakoa's citizens not being invited to be more actively involved in stuff, although that too is a problem for the future, as the vast majority of Krakoans don't seem to have any direct involvement or investment in their society or homeland, but also a problem that only three of millions of *Arakkoans* were involved in the terraforming of Mars. They were just sort of handed a world. Even more than the rest of humanity, they are warriors, they need a world to *conquer.* Cover the darn thing with Brood or Sidri or N'garai or something, so that they feel like they are *earning* this world of their own! (And, fighting to defend it, will automatically invest them in it, and make them want to *keep* it. Once they've bled for it, they'll never want to leave. It will no longer be some hand-me-down starter planet that the Earth-mutants exiled them to rather than have them mess up their own world and their precious humans.)

[Malachi]

Something I noticed back in the 'nation-building' stuff the US went through with Iraq. It seems like you can't just *give* someone a democracy (or worse, force it upon them!). They have to choose it and want it and fight for it, and not have whatever government they already had taken away from them by force and democracy shoved at them by the people who are bombing their country.

I'm reminded of how parables work. If you tell someone something, it's just noise, and totally tied up with how much or little they think of you personally. If you drop a riddle or parable and they tease out the meaning with their own brain, it tricks them into thinking that the information you spoon-fed them in that parable *came from their own brain* and is therefore totally trustworthy.

I don't even see it as a problem with Krakoa's citizens not being invited to be more actively involved in stuff, although that too is a problem for the future, as the vast majority of Krakoans don't seem to have any direct involvement or investment in their society or homeland, but also a problem that only three of millions of *Arakkoans* were involved in the terraforming of Mars. They were just sort of handed a world. Even more than the rest of humanity, they are warriors, they need a world to *conquer.* Cover the darn thing with Brood or Sidri or N'garai or something, so that they feel like they are *earning* this world of their own! (And, fighting to defend it, will automatically invest them in it, and make them want to *keep* it. Once they've bled for it, they'll never want to leave. It will no longer be some hand-me-down starter planet that the Earth-mutants exiled them to rather than have them mess up their own world and their precious humans.)

Well when we have students over at work the best way they learn is by involving them in the process. Never tell them anything, just ask them questions. Help them figure it out.

There is always an debate on short term goals versus planing for the future. If building the foundation requires them them to be involved or if you can skip a few miletstones with more symbolic victories seeing how new the nation is.

So far it seems that Krakoa is setup to fail and all these things we be part of why it falls. It's just a rush job with plaster over the cracks.