Spider-Man Beyond

[Pav]

I'm mixed on Kaine's return. I like the character, but you're correct that having both pulls focus. I suppose I'll split the difference and say I want Kaine if Beyond has clone-y intentions, but no Kaine if it's just evil mad science without cloning.

I tend to agree. For me, Kaine is the (traditional) Venom to Ben's Peter, but even more important to each other. I'd say the relationship each has with the other is the most important relationship each character has.

That being said, if Beyond is pushing Ben into some new territory and not focused on the themes that come with his status as a clone, then Kaine isn't particularly necessary -- because I agree that the focus then automatically becomes their relationship rather than one specific character.

I do know one thing: Kaine probably couldn't leave Ben alone even if he wanted to do so; and the longer Ben stars in a comic, the more apt it'll be for Kaine to show up.

-Pav, who wonders why Beyond wouldn't recruit both Ben and Kaine...

[bob.schoonover]

I tend to agree. For me, Kaine is the (traditional) Venom to Ben's Peter, but even more important to each other. I'd say the relationship each has with the other is the most important relationship each character has.

That being said, if Beyond is pushing Ben into some new territory and not focused on the themes that come with his status as a clone, then Kaine isn't particularly necessary -- because I agree that the focus then automatically becomes their relationship rather than one specific character.

I do know one thing: Kaine probably couldn't leave Ben alone even if he wanted to do so; and the longer Ben stars in a comic, the more apt it'll be for Kaine to show up.

-Pav, who wonders why Beyond wouldn't recruit both Ben and Kaine...

I suppose it matters a lot if Beyond will be open-ended regarding Ben - a possible springboard to a new series (or as a member of a team) leaves a lot of room to interact with Kaine outside of the specific Beyond arc (which seems to be at least 15 issues and probably no more than 25). When I make my giant laundry list of things I'd like to see with Ben (and knowing that Peter and MJ will still be present in the story in some manner), Kaine just doesn't make the cut if he's not also tied into Beyond somehow. I want to see Ben meet Teresa, I want to see Ben interact (in some way) with his not dead or dying Aunt May (although, who knows on that, she's had cancer and is the object of The Deal everyone wants undone), and I'd generally like to see a path forward for him in the story.

[classicgmer]

I tend to agree. For me, Kaine is the (traditional) Venom to Ben's Peter, but even more important to each other. I'd say the relationship each has with the other is the most important relationship each character has.

That being said, if Beyond is pushing Ben into some new territory and not focused on the themes that come with his status as a clone, then Kaine isn't particularly necessary -- because I agree that the focus then automatically becomes their relationship rather than one specific character.

I do know one thing: Kaine probably couldn't leave Ben alone even if he wanted to do so; and the longer Ben stars in a comic, the more apt it'll be for Kaine to show up.

-Pav, who wonders why Beyond wouldn't recruit both Ben and Kaine...

I feel like Kaine doesn't need to have a major pressence in beyond but should show up for a issue or two because he's basically always been Ben's shadow and should pop in to #1 See why Ben has taken up the mantle of Spider-Man and what happened to Peter and #2. Really see if Ben is in the right headspace and trying to makeup for his days as the jackal.

[Spiderfan001]

I love how Doc Strange's death is given such importance but Peter's "death" will literally not be mentioned anywhere and were supposed to be celebrating for Ben.Ik he's the sorcerer supreme, but Spidey stops more crime than anyone[DD and others are surprised how much he does].He's also the only street hero who is much higher in power level and the others can't take the threats he handles.Now that is something cool to explore.

I mean if you're gonna replace him atleast do it as an organic conclusion to his arc.This is literally the worst timing with Spencer's OMD stuff and they did this with Ben once before and it failed.
And give your most popular hero's "death" some importance.Like, c'mon man.Do better

[Spiderfan001]

I feel like Kaine doesn't need to have a major pressence in beyond but should show up for a issue or two because he's basically always been Ben's shadow and should pop in to #1 See why Ben has taken up the mantle of Spider-Man and what happened to Peter and #2. Really see if Ben is in the right headspace and trying to makeup for his days as the jackal.

Maybe have him investigate Peter's death.
I really hope this was a hit by Beyond and not just coincidence.
I mean Ben appears and Peter immediately "dies" or is fatally wounded is just the sh*ttiest writing.

[Pav]

I feel like Kaine doesn't need to have a major pressence in beyond but should show up for a issue or two because he's basically always been Ben's shadow and should pop in to #1 See why Ben has taken up the mantle of Spider-Man and what happened to Peter and #2. Really see if Ben is in the right headspace and trying to makeup for his days as the jackal.

There's also the unresolved issue of Otto-as-Peter telling Kaine that he's just a failed experiment or whatever in Superior Team-Up.

Despite appearing in stories together since then, I don't believe there's been any heart-to-heart talks between Peter and his Clone Bros.

-Pav, who is hopeful for strengthened bonds...

[Spiderfan001]

There's also the unresolved issue of Otto-as-Peter telling Kaine that he's just a failed experiment or whatever in Superior Team-Up.

Despite appearing in stories together since then, I don't believe there's been any heart-to-heart talks between Peter and his Clone Bros.

-Pav, who is hopeful for strengthened bonds...

Yeah, that would be cool
I mean Kaine isn't in the first 2 issues and Peter is gone by the second so it won't happen but still

[Huntsman Spider]

For all we know, Peter isn't necessarily dead, but everyone assumes he is while he's hidden away somewhere in a comatose state. I would sooner buy that than him being literally dead. A metaphorical death might work, but not literal death, because literal death, you have to come up with a somewhat sensible reason for him not to be dead anymore as soon as the novelty of Ben Reilly being Spider-Man again wears off.

[NC_Yankee]

For all we know, Peter isn't necessarily dead, but everyone assumes he is while he's hidden away somewhere in a comatose state. I would sooner buy that than him being literally dead. A metaphorical death might work, but not literal death, because literal death, you have to come up with a somewhat sensible reason for him not to be dead anymore as soon as the novelty of Ben Reilly being Spider-Man again wears off.

I really hope Marvel does not go to another Peter is dead story or even worse, Peter is in a coma and will he survive? That is so Soap Opera like it is not funny. If they want to do a Ben Reilly as Spider-Man story, then do it but do it right. What would I consider right? A comic with plenty of action, Ben NOT being a bad guy in the end and not having to share the comic book with Peter in a coma.

[Huntsman Spider]

I really hope Marvel does not go to another Peter is dead story or even worse, Peter is in a coma and will he survive? That is so Soap Opera like it is not funny. If they want to do a Ben Reilly as Spider-Man story, then do it but do it right. What would I consider right? A comic with plenty of action, Ben NOT being a bad guy in the end and not having to share the comic book with Peter in a coma.

That would definitely be a good way to do it.

[Orbus]

I love how Doc Strange's death is given such importance but Peter's "death" will literally not be mentioned anywhere and were supposed to be celebrating for Ben.Ik he's the sorcerer supreme, but Spidey stops more crime than anyone[DD and others are surprised how much he does].He's also the only street hero who is much higher in power level and the others can't take the threats he handles.Now that is something cool to explore.

I mean if you're gonna replace him atleast do it as an organic conclusion to his arc.This is literally the worst timing with Spencer's OMD stuff and they did this with Ben once before and it failed.
And give your most popular hero's "death" some importance.Like, c'mon man.Do better

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first time that Stephen Strange has died. It'll probably stick for a while and and be part of a big story for the character.

Even if Peter hadn't died a number of times before absolutely no one believes that Peter wont be back for #900. You should also realise that 90% of these hero 'dies' and gets replaced story lines is usually so the original can triumphantly return and validate why are the best person for the job. It's Ben Reilly fans that should be worried but I get the vibe this will end better for him than Clone Conspiracy or the original clone saga.

[ZeroBG82]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first time that Stephen Strange has died. It'll probably stick for a while and and be part of a big story for the character.

If "for a while" here means "until Doctor Strange 2 comes out in theaters" then yes. Anybody who expects anything more than that is, frankly, delusional.

Same with Beyond. #900 will be Peter. Maybe his return, maybe he'll already be back by then. But it will be Pete. In the meantime, I'll take however many issues of Ben Reilly Marvel is willing to give me, provided they don't make him evil again. That's really my one dealbreaker here, and I think there is a legitimate concern that Marvel will find a way to screw it up. Ben Reilly, as a hero, for 6-8 issues and I'll be good. More than that? Awesome. But I'm not expecting a 30 issue run here, and nobody else should be either.

The biggest question mark is where will Marvel leave Ben when it's all said and done. A new series is probably too much to hope for, but set up for an appearance somewhere would be lovely.

[Spiderfan001]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this is the first time that Stephen Strange has died. It'll probably stick for a while and and be part of a big story for the character.

Even if Peter hadn't died a number of times before absolutely no one believes that Peter wont be back for #900. You should also realise that 90% of these hero 'dies' and gets replaced story lines is usually so the original can triumphantly return and validate why are the best person for the job. It's Ben Reilly fans that should be worried but I get the vibe this will end better for him than Clone Conspiracy or the original clone saga.

It really won't.MoM is coming and you just know they will bring him back for that.

Yeah, but they are sh*tty stories and also means that we loose good ones like the one we would have got with Peter being the one who took Strange's place as the NYC magical defender .No matter how good the Ben one is it can't be nearly as good as the former premise.The friendship between Peter and Strange is what makes that so good.

And Ben Reilly is hijacking ASM, how are Ben Reilly fans the ones that are worried.I mean that's like saying oh I took your house but you still have your Job.ASM isn't a Ben book.
Yeah, although if they shove peter off in a disrespectful way then Ben deserves the same.If they do a good job with the former, then I hope they do it for the latter.

[Spiderfan001]

For all we know, Peter isn't necessarily dead, but everyone assumes he is while he's hidden away somewhere in a comatose state. I would sooner buy that than him being literally dead. A metaphorical death might work, but not literal death, because literal death, you have to come up with a somewhat sensible reason for him not to be dead anymore as soon as the novelty of Ben Reilly being Spider-Man again wears off.

I mean, being in a coma is worse.That's like being dead but with none of the (comic book)benefits and kinda what we see here.
I hope he's like undercover and Pete and ben set this up(unlikely) or Peter figured something was on and planned ahead.Just anything other than the stupid coma

[Orbus]

It really won't.MoM is coming and you just know they will bring him back for that.

Probably but Doctor Strange 2 is currently scheduled to release March next year. That's a while in comic book terms.

Yeah, but they are sh*tty stories and also means that we loose good ones like the one we would have got with Peter being the one who took Strange's place as the NYC magical defender .No matter how good the Ben one is it can't be nearly as good as the former premise.The friendship between Peter and Strange is what makes that so good.

We don't know they are sh*tty stories. I imagine you will think they are regardless but for the rest of us we'll have to wait and see. Also I haven't been following the all the news on this but is that what they were planning on doing instead of this; Peter as Spider-Man as Sorcerer Supreme? Obviously I can't judge a story that wont happen but conceptually I'd rather have Beyond than that. Doctor Strange has been a solid Spider-Man ally usually when magic is involved but he's not as close to Peter as Johnny Storm, Matt Murdock, most of the New Avengers that he'd feel a sense of responsibility to replace him. Also while I'm all for a change of pace now and again Spider-Man becoming a magic based hero strikes me as a bit too far. If people thought Parker Industries meant you couldn't ever go back and tell traditional Spidey stories again after briefly being a CEO of major company imagine what it would be like if he was a master of mystic arts. I for one would always be questioning why he isn't spells and magic/

And Ben Reilly is hijacking ASM, how are Ben Reilly fans the ones that are worried.I mean that's like saying oh I took your house but you still have your Job.ASM isn't a Ben book.
Yeah, although if they shove peter off in a disrespectful way then Ben deserves the same.If they do a good job with the former, then I hope they do it for the latter.

Because while Peter may be shoved off in a disrespectful way he'll almost certainly make a triumphant return in a way that validates him as character by #900. Where Ben fans should feel wary is whether Ben takes a villainous turn or is portrayed as particularly foolish in whatever mistake he makes that forces Peter to return. You could argue he's being more than a little naive trusting the Beyond corporation. That being said I'm cautiously optimistic that he wont come out of this too badly. Maybe even be left in a good place for another stab a Ben Reilly book. We'll see.