Spider-Man Beyond

[Somecrazyaussie]

I don't disagree with your larger point, but I straight up disagree with this. Venom is a radically different animal. Eddie hasn't been replaced, he's evolved. It's character progression. He hasn't been shelved, or set aside. And he's clearly still a part of the Venom book moving forward.

I don't expect the situation with Eddie and Dylan to be status quo in the long haul, but it's a much more organic and character driven change than what you're talking about elsewhere.

And I say that as one of the biggest Ben Reilly fans on this board. I'm loving the thought of having Ben back, and dreading the inevitable monkey's paw that Marvel ALWAYS pulls with him. But it does suck that the only way they seem able to work with the character is at Peter's expense. It shouldn't be a zero sum game. Some writer somewhere must have an idea that would elevate both characters without jobbing one or the other.

I just tossed him in there for example sake. Eddie is also different in that he wasn't Venom for a big stretch of time. But Marvel did a lot to course correct from the ANMN situation. It is why we ended up with the Fresh Start initiative in the first place. If it is a character based story/for character progression? Okay, they have a valid case. But replacement type stories are becoming far too common over at Marvel.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I agree, Eddie hasn't been pushed yet

But Peter has been pushed for both Ben(as you agree) and Miles(ITSV, his game and comics all lowball and sideline peter or need a broken or dead Peter to work).That is (one of the reasons)why Miguel is the best legacy Spider.In his existence and in team up no one is pushed or jobbed and they are different enough in personality that it shows and have a great dynamic.

Peter has been pushed way too much and it's only getting worse.
His book ASM, which is going to be taken over by Ben reilly and he's being written off in his own book.
He has 1 mini and 1 what-if.(Symbiote Spider-man and Spider-shadow)
Non-stop has had an awful schedule and has been not solicited for 2 months and is probably cancelled.

So by October his what-if is done, his ongoing is taken over by another character and his secondary title is on hiatus or cancelled.Only has one mini that too will be half-way done.

Spidey is taking a massive hit as shown above.
Heck even rn his book is more than 50% other characters and barely any Spidey(still a good run though).
His 2nd game got put aside for Miles spin-off(which is ok but still means we have to wait more) and there's a chance the it will be Spider-men and again sidelining and low-balling him like they did in MM.
And Spider-man isn't even a part of a team book like an Avengers or defenders squad.
Even in Spider-verse stuff like Geddon he was massively sidelined.
And many adaptation like the game and T.V. shows are jamming Spider-fam and making them the norm instead of multiversal team-up.

He is there biggest and most popular character they have and amazing in sales and all the can do is sideline him and use him for other characters.

Symbiote Spider-man is pretty much a ongoing title. They've just been sneaky (clever actually) in making each story arc a mini series. Which is the approach they should take with characters who can't sustain a technical ongoing. It also has two benefits 1. Readers are much more open to giving a mini a shot as they perceive it as a short term commitment since it is only 5 issues etc and 2. If the mini doesnt do well sales wise, then at least the writer has it already wrapped up.

[Spiderfan001]

Symbiote Spider-man is pretty much a ongoing title. They've just been sneaky (clever actually) in making each story arc a mini series. Which is the approach they should take with characters who can't sustain a technical ongoing. It also has two benefits 1. Readers are much more open to giving a mini a shot as they perceive it as a short term commitment since it is only 5 issues etc and 2. If the mini doesnt do well sales wise, then at least the writer has it already wrapped up.

Not really.
1)ASM is 2 times a month while Symbiote is one.
2)Symbiote Spider-man goes for 5 issues once a month and then stops for a few months.Ongoings are usually once a month(2 for ASM).

I enjoy symbiote a lot.Extremely good

That is what they are doing:-
Shang chi was a mini turned ongoing.
They should just make ongoings but stuctured like mini's so when cancelled at least the arc will finish in time.

[Ursalink]

If Ben Really is going to be part of this era (which I hope it won't last beyond issue #900), shouldn't Kaine end up involved here too?

[Spiderfan001]

If Ben Really is going to be part of this era (which I hope it won't last beyond issue #900), shouldn't Kaine end up involved here too?

hope so,
Will make sense

[Somecrazyaussie]

Not really.
1)ASM is 2 times a month while Symbiote is one.
2)Symbiote Spider-man goes for 5 issues once a month and then stops for a few months.Ongoings are usually once a month(2 for ASM).

I enjoy symbiote a lot.Extremely good

That is what they are doing:-
Shang chi was a mini turned ongoing.
They should just make ongoings but stuctured like mini's so when cancelled at least the arc will finish in time.

Both Symbiote and Maestro are stealth ongoings. They just make them mini's. It is similar to how they handled Venom in the 90s. He technically never had a ongoing, but he had a issue on the shelf nearly every month. Symbiote also has plot threads that are carried over from mini to mini.

No, because readers aren't wired that way. If something is announced as being a "ongoing" then they worry about committing to it because it may go 6 issues. It may go 12 or even 24. If they see it is a mini with a set number of issue, they might go, "eh, it is only 5 issues. I think I can cover that" and then they buy it. But if they have no clue how long it will run they'll be reluctant to lay money down on it.

Shang-chi is different in that Marvel wanted a ongoing in order to build up trades to have on the shelf once the film hits. But they wanted to test the waters before pulling the trigger.

All about perception of buyers.

[Spiderfan001]

Both Symbiote and Maestro are stealth ongoings. They just make them mini's. It is similar to how they handled Venom in the 90s. He technically never had a ongoing, but he had a issue on the shelf nearly every month. Symbiote also has plot threads that are carried over from mini to mini.

No, because readers aren't wired that way. If something is announced as being a "ongoing" then they worry about committing to it because it may go 6 issues. It may go 12 or even 24. If they see it is a mini with a set number of issue, they might go, "eh, it is only 5 issues. I think I can cover that" and then they buy it. But if they have no clue how long it will run they'll be reluctant to lay money down on it.

Shang-chi is different in that Marvel wanted a ongoing in order to build up trades to have on the shelf once the film hits. But they wanted to test the waters before pulling the trigger.

All about perception of buyers.

Yeah, what plot threads are overlapping btw?

Again the problem is that after every 4-5 months you get a break for like 2-4 months.Works for testing waters ig.

Yeah, that's makes sense.

[classicgmer]

That's just messed up man.
Ben doesn't deserve being Spidey.You don't sideline a main character in his own book to peddle someone else.He does deserve a solo.

Just because you apparently have a problem with the replacement hero concept doesn't mean it's "messed up" as it's something that's been around for decades and when used well it can result in some great runs such as Brubaker's buckycap or Morrison's Batman and Robin

And replacing Peter will always be met with enormous resistance.The size of the fanbase's cannot be compared.

While it's true that there are people out there such as yourself who'll dislike Peter being replaced no matter what People rejected him as Spider-man in large part because Marvel's plans were to get rid of Peter entirely in favor of Ben and never look back which is why they idiotically tried to say Ben was the original and Peter the clone all along

And remaining threads can easily be resolved in his solo.

You mean the solos that come around every 5-6 years and last around 25 issues

At this point it's blatantly obvious "Beyond" isn't going to be for you but trying to deny the benefits that come along with a book that' is continuously published and always has long runs vs volumes of Scarlet Spider that are few and far in-between and are relatively short is more than a bit ridiculous and disingenuous.

[Spiderfan001]

Just because you apparently have a problem with the replacement hero concept doesn't mean it's "messed up" as it's something that's been around for decades and when used well it can result in some great runs such as Brubaker's buckycap or Morrison's Batman and Robin





While it's true that there are people out there such as yourself who'll dislike Peter being replaced no matter what People rejected him as Spider-man in large part because Marvel's plans were to get rid of Peter entirely in favor of Ben and never look back which is why they idiotically tried to say Ben was the original and Peter the clone all along




You mean the solos that come around every 5-6 years and last around 25 issues

At this point it's blatantly obvious "Beyond" isn't going to be for you but trying to deny the benefits that come along with a book that' is continuously published and always has long runs vs volumes of Scarlet Spider that are few and far in-between and are relatively short is more than a bit ridiculous and disingenuous.

Excpet it's been done to death with Spidey.In recent memory we already got Miles for 1610 and Superior for 616.
And we already got it with Ben as well.This is the forth time.

And they always sideline or kill him for the specific purpose for replacing in 616.
Kill him in his story(like Iron man, Cap, Wolverine, etc.) and then do a new story with replacing.
Killing or sidelineing him in 616 is for the sole purpose of replacing, not part of his story but someone else's.

And the instances you mention are few in comparison to how many times it doesn't work and also kill the character.Not sideline them.
Kill peter fully as part of his story and make it a big deal, make everyone in the MU react and I can see that.

Bruh that is replacing.

Yup.If it sold well they would publish it more.

Again not for me as in not for someone who wants to read Spider-man.
The benefits are for Ben and his fans only which is a much smaller fanbase.

It's blatantly obvious you don't care about Peter and only about Ben.

Cool, then give him more comics.People read ASM for Peter, he is what made the franchise what it is.
Ben can't sustain a solo and needs to be piggybacked by Peter.

Your argument boils down to it's okay for a character(who has been replaced) to replaced for the sole purpose that another one gets his book because the 2nd one can't sustain his own.
I mean, do you not see how wrong that is?
Keep in mind he is getting sidelined and replaced for the other guys story, not his own.Specially when MJ and peter will have to deal with the aftermath of revelations made in the end of Spencer's run.I can guarantee you more people want to see Peter and MJ dealing with revelations of OMD coming out and how it affects their relationship(possible engagement) than Beyond.

And stuff like Spider-girl sold 102 issues, it's not just ASM that sells Spider-characters.

[Spiderfan001]

Yeah, F*ck beyond
Peter and Strange are close.This stupid Beyond sh*t is gonna ruin such a cool Spider-man magic story for Ben.And Black cat team up as well.

Give Ben tie-ins and event stories, Yes.But a specific Peter story is not cool.And this is how they do his 60th year.Just..... F*ck this.

https://www.gamesradar.com/doctor-st...ember-special/

And before people start getting mad, I'm saying he shouldn't get a story specifically meant for Peter.Wanda is dead rn but still is in Darkhold.They could have easily made this before Beyond.This isn't a generic event or tie-in, it's a very specific Peter story and they f*cked it up.

[Jonathangoop1811]

Dammit, I agree with you, this should be a Peter story, he and Strange are the ones who have been friends for years, Peter is the one with a little magic training, it's always the same, any time a big epic event or storyline happens, Peter is not available

[Spiderfan001]

Dammit, I agree with you, this should be a Peter story, he and Strange are the ones who have been friends for years, Peter is the one with a little magic training, it's always the same, any time a big epic event or storyline happens, Peter is not available

This.They have such an underrated friendship.Even in ASM they are teamed up recently are Strange looks out for him.
I would understand if Marvel actually ever cared about continuity, but they don't.See Wanda, it would have been so easy to do the Peter story.
And Marvel really likes F*cking Spidey in events.

1)Secret Wars lead up has superior Spider-man.It was hickman too.
2)Empyre tie-ins were cancelled.The one time it was him.
3)King in Black he was sidelined as heck.
4)Spider-geddon.His own event and he was sidelined.I'm not exageratting, Miles and Ock lead it and Pete wan't even a part of it for a long while.
5)Avenging Spider-man which was a great team-up book was taken over by Spock too.

Like c'mon man.

It's not that he's not available.Marvel doesn't give a sh*t about continuity , it just seems like they want to keep f*cking their best property over.
I really hope this backfires, marvel takes Spider-man fans for guarantee and it shows.
And let's not forget Beyond happens right after OMD will be addressed.They did this last time with Ben, use him to remove the marriage by taking them from the comics entirely.Worked so well before......

I'm sorry for the language and rant but I'm just so done with Marvel rn.

[Pav]

Dammit, I agree with you, this should be a Peter story, he and Strange are the ones who have been friends for years, Peter is the one with a little magic training, it's always the same, any time a big epic event or storyline happens, Peter is not available

At least getting a story featuring Ben as Spidey isn't always the same kind of story!

I do love the Spidey-Strange dynamic: the Fever miniseries is an absolute favorite of mine, and the single issue that Cates did focusing on Peter and Stephen's relationship over in the Strange book is one of the best single issues I've ever read.

That being said, I'm interested in seeing MacKay's approach to the relationship dynamics amongst Ben, Felicia, and Strange, especially considering Ben has an established past with both. Heck, Strange helped Peter recognize Ben's soul in the Technomage arc in Sensational back in the day!

Also, Felicia and Ben first encountered each other under the auspices of the demon D'Spayre. I wonder if MacKay is aware of that? He's the only magic-based villain from Ben's rogues gallery that I can recall.

Didn't Felicia and Ben flirt once he became Spidey before?

-Pav, who gets more excited with each solicit...

[Spiderfan001]

At least getting a story featuring Ben as Spidey isn't always the same kind of story!

I do love the Spidey-Strange dynamic: the Fever miniseries is an absolute favorite of mine, and the single issue that Cates did focusing on Peter and Stephen's relationship over in the Strange book is one of the best single issues I've ever read.

That being said, I'm interested in seeing MacKay's approach to the relationship dynamics amongst Ben, Felicia, and Strange, especially considering Ben has an established past with both. Heck, Strange helped Peter recognize Ben's soul in the Technomage arc in Sensational back in the day!

Also, Felicia and Ben first encountered each other under the auspices of the demon D'Spayre. I wonder if MacKay is aware of that? He's the only magic-based villain from Ben's rogues gallery that I can recall.

Didn't Felicia and Ben flirt once he became Spidey before?

-Pav, who gets more excited with each solicit...

" And true to Felicia's nature, she's not really here to help; as MacKay tells us, she "wants to be there to see it when he crashes and burns." "
A quote from the article, safe to say there's no flirting and thank god for that.Hopefully she isn't doing a full 180 and praising the "new and improved" Spider-man by the end of this.Although I don't want them to be enemies in the slightest, just have snark.

I think she slapped his butt and said Peter had a better one and he needs to wall-crawl more.If that flirting then sure....(unless I am missing something, then let me know)

Strange is dead, he left his memoir for Peter asking for a favor.He's not aware he's gone.Can't explore a dynamic when one is dead.

I agree, seeing different stories for Ben is cool but the negatives here far out weight the positives.

This is a once in a lifetime story chance and they are throwing it for a random Ben one.Like, do Ben in Darkhold. Peter has no personal stake in that story and Ben in that would make a lot more sense and would be much better given the premise.
No matter the execution, it can't come to close the weight a story like this would have if they did it the way it was meant to with Peter.

-Spiderfan, who gets more depressed every time Marvel f*cks Spider-man and his fans over

[Frontier]

I dunno, something about this whole thing just doesn't feel genuine or sincere to me...even as a Ben comeback.