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  1. #1861
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    "Ben Reilly has been put through more than any webslinger before him". Yeah, right. OK, maybe if we consider how Ben was resurrected and killed several times by the Jackal, that might be it. But still, I don't think it can be compared to be tortured in life like Peter has; especially in the last issues around the whole Kindred arc or the consequences of OMD.
    You think Ben went through more than any spider just because the Jackal killed Ben several times, really? Practically Ben's whole life has been suffering, Ben spent over five years trying to have a life of his own, only to have been chased by a madman like Kaine for five years, Kaine tortured Ben physically and mentally, Ben thought his girlfriend was dead, Ben was made to believe he was the original Peter Parker, only to finally sacrifice his life for his brother, and the breaking point was when the Jackal killed Ben multiple times. And you think Ben only suffered for all the deaths he went through thanks to the Jackal.

  2. #1862
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Death View Post
    You think Ben went through more than any spider just because the Jackal killed Ben several times, really? Practically Ben's whole life has been suffering, Ben spent over five years trying to have a life of his own, only to have been chased by a madman like Kaine for five years, Kaine tortured Ben physically and mentally, Ben thought his girlfriend was dead, Ben was made to believe he was the original Peter Parker, only to finally sacrifice his life for his brother, and the breaking point was when the Jackal killed Ben multiple times. And you think Ben only suffered for all the deaths he went through thanks to the Jackal.
    Let's check:
    + Peter's suffering started as a baby. His parents died in a plane crash and they were declared traitors for years.
    + Peter suffered bullying most of his school life, then it suffered the tragedy of feeling responsible for Uncle Ben's death.
    + Peter was manipulated and tortured for at least a decade thanks to the Osborns, with plots like the Scrier and the robot Richard and Mary Parker.
    + Norman and Harry tortured Peter by threatening his beloved ones, and plots like Identity Crisis and others.
    + Peter had to see his girlfriend die (Gwen Stacy), thought it resurrected only to discover she was a clone, then he thought Mary Jane died and discovered she was kidnapped.
    + Peter was made to believe he was the clone, which almost turn him insane thinking his whole life was a lie. And when he recovered his identity, he lost his unborn baby.
    + Peter was killed and resurrected two times thanks to Deadpool. Then we have the whole thing around Kindred and the shadows from OMD.

    By my counts, Peter has suffered way worse than Ben. The cruelest thing that could have happened to him was being killed and resurrected 26 times continuously by the Jackal. Even Death itself appeared to Ben and warned him that these experiences took his sould to a dangerous breaking point.

  3. #1863
    The Reliable Old Man The Black Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Let's check:
    + Peter's suffering started as a baby. His parents died in a plane crash and they were declared traitors for years.
    + Peter suffered bullying most of his school life, then it suffered the tragedy of feeling responsible for Uncle Ben's death.
    + Peter was manipulated and tortured for at least a decade thanks to the Osborns, with plots like the Scrier and the robot Richard and Mary Parker.
    + Norman and Harry tortured Peter by threatening his beloved ones, and plots like Identity Crisis and others.
    + Peter had to see his girlfriend die (Gwen Stacy), thought it resurrected only to discover she was a clone, then he thought Mary Jane died and discovered she was kidnapped.
    + Peter was made to believe he was the clone, which almost turn him insane thinking his whole life was a lie. And when he recovered his identity, he lost his unborn baby.
    + Peter was killed and resurrected two times thanks to Deadpool. Then we have the whole thing around Kindred and the shadows from OMD.

    By my counts, Peter has suffered way worse than Ben. The cruelest thing that could have happened to him was being killed and resurrected 26 times continuously by the Jackal. Even Death itself appeared to Ben and warned him that these experiences took his sould to a dangerous breaking point.
    I wasn't comparing who suffered more, obviously Peter has suffered more than any other spider, I was just further exemplifying the fact that all of Ben's deaths is not the only thing Ben suffered, plus there is one much worse thing Ben has suffered that not many have realized.

  4. #1864
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Let's check:
    + Peter's suffering started as a baby. His parents died in a plane crash and they were declared traitors for years.
    + Peter suffered bullying most of his school life, then it suffered the tragedy of feeling responsible for Uncle Ben's death.
    + Peter was manipulated and tortured for at least a decade thanks to the Osborns, with plots like the Scrier and the robot Richard and Mary Parker.
    + Norman and Harry tortured Peter by threatening his beloved ones, and plots like Identity Crisis and others.
    + Peter had to see his girlfriend die (Gwen Stacy), thought it resurrected only to discover she was a clone, then he thought Mary Jane died and discovered she was kidnapped.
    + Peter was made to believe he was the clone, which almost turn him insane thinking his whole life was a lie. And when he recovered his identity, he lost his unborn baby.
    + Peter was killed and resurrected two times thanks to Deadpool. Then we have the whole thing around Kindred and the shadows from OMD.

    By my counts, Peter has suffered way worse than Ben. The cruelest thing that could have happened to him was being killed and resurrected 26 times continuously by the Jackal. Even Death itself appeared to Ben and warned him that these experiences took his sould to a dangerous breaking point.
    Your first couple of points apply to Ben as well, since he has all of Peter's memories through those events.

    He then lost his entire life, had his very existence called into question and was forced onto the road for five years. During which he was hunted and tormented by Kaine for reasons that he neither knew nor understood. And considering that Kaine thought he was tormenting the "real" Peter Parker, that's pain that Ben took on Peter's behalf which he neither earned nor deserved.

    He lost his first real love to prison, lost Aunt May without ever being able to say goodbye or even let her know he existed. Had all the standard Spidey angst during the Clone Saga before dying, tragically and violently. Only to be resurrected and killed 26 more times by a violent psychopath in ways that could charitably be described as creative but might more accurately be called horrific.

    But here's the thing: it's not a contest. Solicits are often full of hyperbole and things that quite frankly aren't true and don't even happen in the issues as published. So why are y'all feeling the need to make a huge deal out of it? It's hype, that's all.

  5. #1865
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Death View Post
    I wasn't comparing who suffered more, obviously Peter has suffered more than any other spider, I was just further exemplifying the fact that all of Ben's deaths is not the only thing Ben suffered, plus there is one much worse thing Ben has suffered that not many have realized.
    Of course Ben's deaths wasn't the only thing he suffered. But as far as I see, experiencing death and resurrections so many times in so little time... I can't think about anything that could be worse than that.

  6. #1866
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroBG82 View Post
    Your first couple of points apply to Ben as well, since he has all of Peter's memories through those events.

    He then lost his entire life, had his very existence called into question and was forced onto the road for five years. During which he was hunted and tormented by Kaine for reasons that he neither knew nor understood. And considering that Kaine thought he was tormenting the "real" Peter Parker, that's pain that Ben took on Peter's behalf which he neither earned nor deserved.

    He lost his first real love to prison, lost Aunt May without ever being able to say goodbye or even let her know he existed. Had all the standard Spidey angst during the Clone Saga before dying, tragically and violently. Only to be resurrected and killed 26 more times by a violent psychopath in ways that could charitably be described as creative but might more accurately be called horrific.

    But here's the thing: it's not a contest. Solicits are often full of hyperbole and things that quite frankly aren't true and don't even happen in the issues as published. So why are y'all feeling the need to make a huge deal out of it? It's hype, that's all.
    And let's not forget that Norman Osborn was the ultimate architect of the Clone Saga and thus the one responsible for Ben's existence and misery throughout said existence, which he put an end to himself while gunning for Peter, as Ben was "merely" a proxy through which he could further manipulate and torment Peter despite Ben's own intentions and desires. That would do a real number on just about anyone, especially after being followed up by 26-27 more torturous and horrific deaths and resurrections.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  7. #1867
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Of course Ben's deaths wasn't the only thing he suffered. But as far as I see, experiencing death and resurrections so many times in so little time... I can't think about anything that could be worse than that.
    And giving his life again to stop Jennix. Death by soul sucking doesn't seem too pleasant

  8. #1868
    Astonishing Member boots's Avatar
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    i don't think you can get a clear winner in the suffering olympics. it's all relative

    and it's just solicitation hyperbole anyway
    troo fan or death

  9. #1869
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    We should be getting a preview for issue #80 tomorrow, right?
    Last edited by Sr. Bungle; 11-25-2021 at 06:52 PM.

  10. #1870
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    I wonder if 93 will be double-sized, it seems pretty abrupt after QG entering the scene
    Agreed, unless the door z is something introduced to us beforehand.

    Quote Originally Posted by bob.schoonover View Post
    Well, we should get thru 93 for March, so it'd be the April solicitations (which we'll see in mid January) or very possibly but unlikely the first TPB solicitation through the various bookseller websites.

    I wonder if the Beyond arc in ASM will be somewhat final, or if it'll seed the new direction for Ben (e.g. continuing to fight Beyond away from Peter). Peter's new direction will be determined by the new writer on ASM, but one might imagine Zeb Wells or one of the other members of the Beyond team sticking with Ben to follow up on Spider-man Beyond in a new series.
    We usually get some form of info like writers or team before that, do we not?

    I doubt beyond will last, maybe in a smaller capacity for nextwave/Ben.I don't think wells will stick w/ Beyond, maybe one of the other ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    Do we know how Beyond is doing sales-wise?
    It's ASM, it's always a top-seller.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    "Ben Reilly has been put through more than any webslinger before him". Yeah, right. OK, maybe if we consider how Ben was resurrected and killed several times by the Jackal, that might be it. But still, I don't think it can be compared to be tortured in life like Peter has; especially in the last issues around the whole Kindred arc or the consequences of OMD.
    Seems like hyperbole, because if we broke it down it's not even close.The number of alternate lives Peter has lived like in Astonishing Spider-man and Wolverine is another factor one needs to consider.

    Still Ben has suffered a lot, my guess is the solicit is just saying Beyond was rough for him as well

    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    We shoul be getting a preview for issue #80 tomorrow, right?
    Yeah, unless someone can find a site on which we have an exclusive preview for it before that.

  11. #1871
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    Both issue 80 and the 'Death of Dr Strange' issue. As you like to say we "will be eating good" next week.

  12. #1872
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    And giving his life again to stop Jennix. Death by soul sucking doesn't seem too pleasant
    Ben's souls was already very damaged because of the Jackal's experiments, that's why it was like food's poisoning for Jennix then. And frankly, after being electrocuted, tortured with acid, drown, burnt alive and several other horrible ways of death, I can't see the soul sucking as much worse. Like I said, too much horror in so little time.

    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Both issue 80 and the 'Death of Dr Strange' issue. As you like to say we "will be eating good" next week.
    The "Death of Dr Strange" preview is already out, but still waiting for issue 80's preview.

  13. #1873
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ursalink View Post
    Ben's souls was already very damaged because of the Jackal's experiments, that's why it was like food's poisoning for Jennix then. And frankly, after being electrocuted, tortured with acid, drown, burnt alive and several other horrible ways of death, I can't see the soul sucking as much worse. Like I said, too much horror in so little time.
    Spider-Geddon indicated the Inheritors soul-sucking erased Benís trauma, but I think thatís only partially true and remnants of it are still there.

  14. #1874
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    Quote Originally Posted by HypnoHustler View Post
    Spider-Geddon indicated the Inheritors soul-sucking erased Ben’s trauma, but I think that’s only partially true and remnants of it are still there.
    Technically, it just erased the taint on his soul that accumulated from those 27 torturous deaths and resurrections, but it didn't erase the memory of what was done to him or what he went on to do himself, which would still be plenty of trauma, just with less danger of his soul collapsing under the strain and making him go apocalyptically insane.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  15. #1875
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Technically, it just erased the taint on his soul that accumulated from those 27 torturous deaths and resurrections, but it didn't erase the memory of what was done to him or what he went on to do himself, which would still be plenty of trauma, just with less danger of his soul collapsing under the strain and making him go apocalyptically insane.
    Good point.

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