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  1. #1321
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    As it is, Ben getting countless second chances
    I wouldn't know about countless second chances - it's basically all of Ben's third run overall. His first run was Scarlet+Spider-Man, then CC Scarlet Spider, and now this. As Spidey proper, just the 2nd time around.

    I just don't get why an injured Peter needs Ben Reilly to take over when Miles is there, and why they had to specifically use the font from the Bendis-Pichelli Ultimate Miles books.
    Word on the grapevine is that Marvel's only even doing Beyond to begin with because Spencer's departure was a bit sudden and they want to buy time until they figure out where to go next. Beyond isn't shy at basically insinuating itself to be another Superior Spider-Man in its own terms from the solicits and whatnot - this is a guy who wants to be Spider-Man, but that in the end, won't be Spider-Man.

    Miles is basically meant to be tomorrow's Spider-Man at this point, and what we're hearing from this run so far would run pretty strongly against that notion - whether partnering up with a morally ambiguous corporation to chasing down people over trademark infringement (IMO, there's no way anyone who's been around comics enough reads the solicit and thinks Ben is in the right there).

  2. #1322
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I guess.

    I mean Miles is a far more successful and important character than Ben Reilly, breaking out in a way Ben never did. Miles Morales has made more appearances than Ben Reilly has at this point and ought to be treated as the senior character in terms of achievement, in the same way Wolverine is treated as a senior character over Hawkeye despite making his comics debut years after Barton did.

    As it is, Ben getting countless second chances is emblematic of how many second chances at the Championship Belt (to continue with the wrestling theme), some kind of characters (white male) get over others.

    Whereas a Black character even when they get legitimate success and attention are always precarious in having that usurped. You saw that with John Stewart and Hal Jordan, where John Stewart got attention and fame and notice, but nostalgia for Hal Jordan, a character who was failing in the 80s and was ordered whacked by DC, led Jordan to return in a big way and override the heat that Stewart got, and that remains in place even if Jordan GL failed in the 2011 film and didn't produce any success, by default he's assumed to be the big cheese.

    I just don't get why an injured Peter needs Ben Reilly to take over when Miles is there, and why they had to specifically use the font from the Bendis-Pichelli Ultimate Miles books.
    I'd agree that Miles is a more important character than Ben but I disgaree that he's being given some preferential treatment. Ben has had one second chance prior to this which everyone agrees was heavily botched. He's also a character that has been treated very unfairly over the years even all the way back to when he was actually became Spider-Man and almost instantly Marvel higher ups wanted him gone. As people have previously stated in Ben related threads the Spider-Man books when Ben was in the role all sold well and the character has retained a cult following so I don't think it's bad thing he be given another chance.

    It's also likely because he's less important that Miles that he's been given this opportunity. The likely progression of this arc is probably that the Beyond Corporation are the villains and it be seen as a mistake for Ben to trust them. This will lead to some big failing on his part which will require Peter to triumphantly step into the role again. Hopefully whatever mistakes Ben makes aren't ones that he can't come back from (I'm cautiously optimistic about this) but Marvel are not going to want to put such an important character like Miles in a story were he fails and has to be bailed out by Peter.

  3. #1323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post

    I just don't get why an injured Peter needs Ben Reilly to take over when Miles is there
    Because Marvel had issues to fill and somebody wanted to write it? Why does any comic company do anything? Also, because it's 25 years since Ben's death and he deserves an anniversary and another shot.

  4. #1324
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    I'm not trying to single anybody out in this thread but it's truly mystifying to me reading through this thread the many different forms of opposition this run is encountering before even launching


    "Why're they replacing Peter again!!?

    "Why can't it be Miles!!!"

    "Why are they using Peter's villains and supporting cast!!!"

    "Why are they using the Ultimate universe font!!!"

    "The thrice monthly schedule is too much!!"

    "Too many writers and artists!!!"


    Did I miss anything? Not saying people aren't entitled to their criticisms but this seems to be encountering even more opposition for a variety of different reasons even compared to when Superior Spider-man was getting ready to launch.

  5. #1325
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    Don't know if anyone's mentioned this. But did it strike everyone as weird that the Amazing Spider-Man logo of the Beyond era is basically a rip of the Ultimate Spider-Man Miles Morales comics font?
    The Miles appropriation continues from Homecoming now to this.

    I don't like the optics of a Ben versus Miles fight in the early issues of Beyond...or if Miles is involved as some kind of sidekick to Ben through BEYOND, that would stink.
    It is not totally unusual for Marvel to reuse logos so I don't see why there is any need to infer so devious intent behind it, also this storyline involves Beyond Corporation, an organisation that deals with the multiverse, maybe the logo hint at the major player behind what Beyond is doing is linked to the 1610 universe.

  6. #1326
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    Quote Originally Posted by Revolutionary_Jack View Post
    I guess.

    I mean Miles is a far more successful and important character than Ben Reilly, breaking out in a way Ben never did. Miles Morales has made more appearances than Ben Reilly has at this point and ought to be treated as the senior character in terms of achievement, in the same way Wolverine is treated as a senior character over Hawkeye despite making his comics debut years after Barton did.

    As it is, Ben getting countless second chances is emblematic of how many second chances at the Championship Belt (to continue with the wrestling theme), some kind of characters (white male) get over others.

    Whereas a Black character even when they get legitimate success and attention are always precarious in having that usurped. You saw that with John Stewart and Hal Jordan, where John Stewart got attention and fame and notice, but nostalgia for Hal Jordan, a character who was failing in the 80s and was ordered whacked by DC, led Jordan to return in a big way and override the heat that Stewart got, and that remains in place even if Jordan GL failed in the 2011 film and didn't produce any success, by default he's assumed to be the big cheese.

    I just don't get why an injured Peter needs Ben Reilly to take over when Miles is there, and why they had to specifically use the font from the Bendis-Pichelli Ultimate Miles books.
    Do you want to know a sad reality? Miles from the beginning was hated by a great part of the fans, nowadays he is still hated, but not as much as before and the only reason why he is more important was because Marvel forced him and put him in several events, series and other things. Although the Spider-verse animated movie proved to introduce him correctly as Spider-Man, thanks to that movie people started to accept him and his hatred diminished, then came his game and he did a decent job with Miles, just as the fans accepted Miles as Spider-Man, you will have to accept Ben as Spider-Man in the same way.

  7. #1327
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    You can't use Miles because he's not an Amazing Spider-Man character or that connected to Peter's world and already has his own book. That's why he doesn't work as a successor in the context of 616.

    Of course Miles also probably wouldn't have worked for the plot in terms of how they're handling Ben as Spider-Man.

  8. #1328
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You can't use Miles because he's not an Amazing Spider-Man character or that connected to Peter's world and already has his own book. That's why he doesn't work as a successor in the context of 616.

    Of course Miles also probably wouldn't have worked for the plot in terms of how they're handling Ben as Spider-Man.
    I think its more so with how the story is going than Miles being a "true" successor, Marvel wants to see if Ben can sell like Miles. If he can, they have another book to sell if not then hey at least they tried.

  9. #1329
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You can't use Miles because he's not an Amazing Spider-Man character or that connected to Peter's world and already has his own book. That's why he doesn't work as a successor in the context of 616.

    Of course Miles also probably wouldn't have worked for the plot in terms of how they're handling Ben as Spider-Man.
    Agree, with this point.

    Given that from what we have seen from the story so far at the beginning, Peter and Ben were working together before Peter gets injured, so in this scenario, it is not even about Ben substituting for Peter as the Amazing Spider-Man, he was already going to be Spider-Man for the Beyond Corporation whether Peter was injured or not.

  10. #1330
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    Quote Originally Posted by classicgmer View Post
    I'm not trying to single anybody out in this thread but it's truly mystifying to me reading through this thread the many different forms of opposition this run is encountering before even launching


    "Why're they replacing Peter again!!?

    "Why can't it be Miles!!!"

    "Why are they using Peter's villains and supporting cast!!!"

    "Why are they using the Ultimate universe font!!!"

    "The thrice monthly schedule is too much!!"

    "Too many writers and artists!!!"


    Did I miss anything? Not saying people aren't entitled to their criticisms but this seems to be encountering even more opposition for a variety of different reasons even compared to when Superior Spider-man was getting ready to launch.
    If I may, Superior took place in BND era under Slott.It was his plan and what he was leading up too.
    Beyond takes place after Spencer which is what a lot of fans have waited for since Spencer's cleaning up house for next writers and Peter/MJ etc.Moreover this has all the signs of a last minute filler arc under a multitude of writers leading to inconsistent qualities and 3+ issues a month meaning it's expensive.

    The hate isn't for Ben, in fact Ben>>>Otto for Spider-man IMO.It's the timing w/ other factors like BND style team, 3+ per month, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    You can't use Miles because he's not an Amazing Spider-Man character or that connected to Peter's world and already has his own book. That's why he doesn't work as a successor in the context of 616.

    Of course Miles also probably wouldn't have worked for the plot in terms of how they're handling Ben as Spider-Man.
    Facts

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaychance View Post
    I think its more so with how the story is going than Miles being a "true" successor, Marvel wants to see if Ben can sell like Miles. If he can, they have another book to sell if not then hey at least they tried.
    Miles isn't a successor in the fact he's already Spider-man, that was his origin.Even when Peter says he's glad that someone will step up once he's gone he says he's already "stepped up".Miles doesn't work as a legacy because he is already a off-shoot/spin-off Spider-man residing in 616.That and what frontier said.

  11. #1331
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Death View Post
    Do you want to know a sad reality? Miles from the beginning was hated by a great part of the fans, nowadays he is still hated, but not as much as before and the only reason why he is more important was because Marvel forced him and put him in several events, series and other things. Although the Spider-verse animated movie proved to introduce him correctly as Spider-Man, thanks to that movie people started to accept him and his hatred diminished, then came his game and he did a decent job with Miles, just as the fans accepted Miles as Spider-Man, you will have to accept Ben as Spider-Man in the same way.
    I do not think Miles is hated (especially by the kids ( yesterday, I saw a child with a Spider-Man shirt: It was Miles costume not Peter’s)). As for the future of Miles, I have said it before and I will say it again, I do think one day Miles will be the one in Amazing, and Peter in the satellite comic with MJ, due to the combination of demographic changes and Marvel wanting Spider-Man to represent youth. It is also becoming apparent that Peter as a kid no longer works, and Miles does

  12. #1332
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I do not think Miles is hated (especially by the kids ( yesterday, I saw a child with a Spider-Man shirt: It was Miles costume not Peter¬’s)). As for the future of Miles, I have said it before and I will say it again, I do think one day Miles will be the one in Amazing, and Peter in the satellite comic with MJ, due to the combination of demographic changes and Marvel wanting Spider-Man to represent youth. It is also becoming apparent that Peter as a kid no longer works, and Miles does
    Not the thread but that's really not gonna happen.Peter is bigger than most heroes, he's the top of the top.He sold more than Avengers+Batman+Superman combined.
    And Miles is popular in US, but in countries like India people barely know him, and I'm talking ITSV and Ps5 included.Even his costume figures are sold under Peter's name sometimes.India is a massive fanbase for Spider-man, close to or even bigger than the US.I'm guessing it's similar w/ many other countries.
    Miles is one of the best growing heroes, but it's going to be decades until he overtakes.They may do a stint in comics, same way Ironheart took over Iron man for a hot second but it won't last.

  13. #1333
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    If I may, Superior took place in BND era under Slott.It was his plan and what he was leading up too.
    Beyond takes place after Spencer which is what a lot of fans have waited for since Spencer's cleaning up house for next writers and Peter/MJ etc.Moreover this has all the signs of a last minute filler arc under a multitude of writers leading to inconsistent qualities and 3+ issues a month meaning it's expensive.

    The hate isn't for Ben, in fact Ben>>>Otto for Spider-man IMO.It's the timing w/ other factors like BND style team, 3+ per month, etc.



    Sorry but i'm going to disagree with you here and say that the bulk of the resistance to Beyond is from people who don't care for Ben Reilly and never will.


    Not saying the other reasons you mentioned don't have merit but it's painfully clear to me there's still a ton of people who haven't gotten over the Clone Saga and the lingering negativity from that era of Spider-man is unfortunately bubbling to the surface again even though Beyond will be brief and there's zero chance of Ben replacing Peter permanently.

  14. #1334
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spiderfan001 View Post
    If I may, Superior took place in BND era under Slott.It was his plan and what he was leading up too.
    Beyond takes place after Spencer which is what a lot of fans have waited for since Spencer's cleaning up house for next writers and Peter/MJ etc.Moreover this has all the signs of a last minute filler arc under a multitude of writers leading to inconsistent qualities and 3+ issues a month meaning it's expensive.
    I think most of us accept that this is semi "filler" at this point. The evidence makes it clear. But this honestly sounds more exciting than a run dedicated to "cleaning house."

  15. #1335
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC_Yankee View Post
    I do not think Miles is hated (especially by the kids ( yesterday, I saw a child with a Spider-Man shirt: It was Miles costume not Peter’s)). As for the future of Miles, I have said it before and I will say it again, I do think one day Miles will be the one in Amazing, and Peter in the satellite comic with MJ, due to the combination of demographic changes and Marvel wanting Spider-Man to represent youth. It is also becoming apparent that Peter as a kid no longer works, and Miles does
    Obviously Miles is no longer hated, not as much as he used to be, but it doesn't take away the fact that there is still a group of fans who still hate him for various reasons. But if you want Miles to be Peter's successor, that's what the Ultimate Universe is for, after all that's his universe of origin and by the way they can republish the comics of that universe, besides if I want another successor in the main series besides Ben, I prefer Kaine as the main Spider-Man at least for a while.

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