Spider-Man Beyond

[Spiderfan001]

Kaine needs to go back to the blue costume. It's still his best one. If the story really is (and we don't know this yet) that MJ asks someone to take over for Peter, I'm not sure MJ and Kaine have that relationship. That being said, I think Kaine reappearing in Beyond is pretty likely, even if it's just a one-off story, because he'd feel obligated to see what is going on

I do think he'll drop in since he has nothing going on rn.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I agree.But that doesn't excuse what they did.I'm just saying don't say their is a deep meaning to the story where it's not.

And what we got was horrible.

Fair enough.To me Norman always saw peter as a heir, he didn't care for Gwen or the rest.He killed Gwen because he loved her, that's just it.And not to mention how utterly vile and gross it is.That to me is taking it too far.

Nope.Again he doesn't care about sticking it to Peter as much as showing him weakness and getting him to convert(that's when he works best).And the point isn't even that Norman would try, it's that Gwen would never let him(unless it was forceful).It's character assasination for Gwen.
Which you choose to ignore, you keep talking about Norman but it destroys Gwen's character.Again you may not like her or care for her buy People do, you need to accept that.This was completely out of character for Gwen.

There's uncomfortable and then there's just vile.This is the latter.There are hundred different and better ways to go about this.
Hell I don't even mind if Norman would trick peter into thinking all this is true, I mind because Gwen would never do this.You're going about this wrong.

Again your logic is like Slott's.He said that no-one wants to read a stable relationship and want drama and that's just not true specially for Peter and MJ.Most fans want them stable.
And people lie and people lied to get their trust broken.Realistically Peter would never fully trust MJ ever again.

Again this isn't about Norman.Even if you think this makes him better(it doesn't imo) the cost is destroying an entire character and dragging others down.You may not care about that character but many people do.

Dude how would you feel if your favorite ship had this done to them years after their death.Gwen isn't my fav ship, not even close(not in the top 3 for Spidey) and I still hate this.
Imagine if in the Spider-girl series they pulled such a twist with MJ and Goblin.How would you feel then.

The point is that a dead character is ruined in an editorial forced retcon story that has little to no bearing on continuity to the point that when Gwen is brought up it is never talked about even in enner monologue.

And we loose stuff like Spider-man Blue.

Again not really.You are defending a story that has no good and sooooooo much bad.Agree to disagree is fine.

Again I wish they retcon it ASAP.It is difficult since they rooted it so deep but just make it Mysterio or something, another thing to try to break Peter.

It has been awhile since I read it, so had to brush up on it. The big mistake was in not setting the story after Captain Stacey's death. If it had, you could explain her behaviour on grief and Peter being somewhat distant following George's death due to guilt. That is where it went wrong. Because the conditions were rip for it to have occurred then.

My logic is not like Slott's at all. But these are fictional people who are dealing with situations far from the norm. What, you want MJ to scold Peter for not picking up the milk? Relationships are more dramatic in fiction because it helps sell that drama. As I wrote earlier, you can have a stable relationship. But the relationship will always be full of complications to a degree. It is how these things work. Slott's logic was not to show any serious relationship at all and, if he did, that Peter couldn't hold one down. Which is a lie. He was also too focus on shoving square pegs into round holes to make his stories work.

My favourite "ship"? I don't read comics with that crap in my mind. Characters break up and get together will alarming irregularity. Soap operas do it all the time and that is what Marvel books used to be: soap operas of superheroes where a fight breaks out occasionally. Now, some characters just always seem to end up back together because the pairing works or the couple's are popular - Clark and Lois, Bruce and Selina, Peter and MJ. Comics will continue to go in circles because they have to do so.

[Somecrazyaussie]

I agree 100% that relationships take work. The problem is too many people want “Instant gratification” and are not not willing to do that. If you look at Peter and his relationships down through the years, there is one common thread about why most fail and MJ succeeded ( when allowed to of course). That is the mental makeup needed to understand and handle an above average person. That could mean an athlete, an entertainer and yes a superhero. Someone like Peter ( that Marvel deliberately burdens with issues) is capable of snapping if if there is no one around to talk to. If you go back to ASM 122, you realize that without the intervention of MJ, Peter would have acted on his worst instinct and killed Norman. In the Peter/MJ relationship it took a long time, but it was finally established that MJ realizes that there is a need for Spider-Man, but that requires understanding and putting in the work necessary to make the relationship work. Unless Marvel chooses to diminish Peter and push Spider-Man by hooking him up with a female superhero, it has been pretty much established that only MJ can and will do whatever is necessary to make things work.

I agree.
Good points.

[Spiderfan001]

It has been awhile since I read it, so had to brush up on it. The big mistake was in not setting the story after Captain Stacey's death. If it had, you could explain her behaviour on grief and Peter being somewhat distant following George's death due to guilt. That is where it went wrong. Because the conditions were rip for it to have occurred then.

My logic is not like Slott's at all. But these are fictional people who are dealing with situations far from the norm. What, you want MJ to scold Peter for not picking up the milk? Relationships are more dramatic in fiction because it helps sell that drama. As I wrote earlier, you can have a stable relationship. But the relationship will always be full of complications to a degree. It is how these things work. Slott's logic was not to show any serious relationship at all and, if he did, that Peter couldn't hold one down. Which is a lie. He was also too focus on shoving square pegs into round holes to make his stories work.

My favourite "ship"? I don't read comics with that crap in my mind. Characters break up and get together will alarming irregularity. Soap operas do it all the time and that is what Marvel books used to be: soap operas of superheroes where a fight breaks out occasionally. Now, some characters just always seem to end up back together because the pairing works or the couple's are popular - Clark and Lois, Bruce and Selina, Peter and MJ. Comics will continue to go in circles because they have to do so.

The story is vile and disgusting and out of character no matter when it was publsihed.

The point is that they have undergone a whole lot of drama.Maybe instead of constantly having conflict with each other they can help each other in what is going on in their lives.And their drama would be MJ stressing about Peter being Spider-man.
And all the things you mention make sense as is.They were meant to happen by the writer.SP was not(not by the old or new ones).You're reaching and it still doesn't work.

And your argument is exactly like Slott's.He says every relationship needs to unstable to be interesting and that's not true.
SP makes the same mistakes as Slott. Square pegs down round holes.

I meant your favorite love interest character.People who like Gwen or even are indifferent were and still are disgusted by this.
And I don't mind fights or break-ups but I do mind when they are forced and out of character.

SP was changed by editorial and not for purpose of story, to make sure Peter didn't have kids.It is the definition of forced and out of characters.

Let's not do this here, not the thread and I really can't argue with people who think this is good.

Let's just hope it gets retconned sooner rather than later.

[Metro]

Is someone seriously trying defend Sins Past?
That is just ew.
Garbage story, that doesn't make any damned sense, you can use any justification you want but that's where it begins and ends

[Spiderfan001]

Is someone seriously trying defend Sins Past?
That is just ew.
Garbage story, that doesn't make any damned sense, you can use any justification you want but that's where it begins and ends

Thank you
I have meet more people on forums that defend it than people who say it's disgusting and I just can't comprehend that.
People even think it makes Gwen a better and more interesting character

[Blanks]

However long this runs, with Ben back with the mantle as Spider-Man, I would love to have them revisit Ben’s relationship with Jessica, the daughter of the burglar that killed Uncle Ben. Jessica could easily be the “Mary Jane” to Ben.

I’m sure nothing like this will get touched on, unless they allow Ben to be the star longer than issues, 85-100 (875-900) but if it does what Marvel “may” be planning and using this to help garner interest in Ben and later give him another Scarlet Spider ongoing later, it would be a blast to revisit and give some closure to old storylines that weren’t wrapped up.

[Spiderfan001]

However long this runs, with Ben back with the mantle as Spider-Man, I would love to have them revisit Ben’s relationship with Jessica, the daughter of the burglar that killed Uncle Ben. Jessica could easily be the “Mary Jane” to Ben.

I’m sure nothing like this will get touched on, unless they allow Ben to be the star longer than issues, 85-100 (875-900) but if it does what Marvel “may” be planning and using this to help garner interest in Ben and later give him another Scarlet Spider ongoing later, it would be a blast to revisit and give some closure to old storylines that weren’t wrapped up.

I don't think this is our Ben.
Or even if he is gonna make it out alive.

If he is, this is a good idea.

But I hope it's half ben and half Pete quantity wise.I don't much care if they build Ben's supporting cast if it costs us Ben or Peter .If they write Ben well enough and make sure Peter is an active part of the story I'm good.

[FFJamie94]

Is someone seriously trying defend Sins Past?
That is just ew.
Garbage story, that doesn't make any damned sense, you can use any justification you want but that's where it begins and ends

I only have positive feelings for nostalgic reasons. It was the first arc I read when I first got into the main amazing title of Spider-man books.
While I can look back on it and know it isn't very good, I can't hate it just due to it being so important to my comic reading today.

[Spiderfan001]

I only have positive feelings for nostalgic reasons. It was the first arc I read when I first got into the main amazing title of Spider-man books.
While I can look back on it and know it isn't very good, I can't hate it just due to it being so important to my comic reading today.

Again that's okay.
But people defend it saying it was actually good.

I can't believe you stuck around if that's the first thing you read though LOL

To me it's like s stain on a shirt, the shirt being the Spider-man legacy and continuity.

I just want them to remove it

[FFJamie94]

Again that's okay.
But people defend it saying it was actually good.

I can't believe you stuck around if that's the first thing you read though LOL

To me it's like s stain on a shirt, the shirt being the Spider-man legacy and continuity.

I just want them to remove it

I think it's a bad idea... That could have possibly worked.
It's written fairly well which is a problem, any other character and this story would have worked. It just doesn't work for Spider-man.

The thing is, it can be easily retconned out. Just make Gabriel and Sarah clones with a story that was fabricated. Have Norman hypnotise MJ into believing the story. While we're at it, make the Norman we've seen since the clone saga a clone as well. Just have a big giant clone battle and retcon the past 30 years of Spider-man books.

[bob.schoonover]

I think it's a bad idea... That could have possibly worked.
It's written fairly well which is a problem, any other character and this story would have worked. It just doesn't work for Spider-man.

The thing is, it can be easily retconned out. Just make Gabriel and Sarah clones with a story that was fabricated. Have Norman hypnotise MJ into believing the story. While we're at it, make the Norman we've seen since the clone saga a clone as well. Just have a big giant clone battle and retcon the past 30 years of Spider-man books.

Actually, just make everyone a clone since Roger Stern left the book. The actress Norman paid to play Aunt May? Actually a clone. Aunt May? A clone. Ock that transferred his essence into obviously-also-a-clone Peter's body? Also obviously a clone. MJ? Of course a clone. Ned Leeds as the Hobgoblin? Weird clone programming. Harry? Multiple clones to cover his time as Green Goblin, Kindred, healing post BND. Teresa? Definitely a clone who was programmed by Chameleon, but the real one is out there and she's definitely a Parker. Nathan Lubensky? Secret clone programmed to spy on Peter and May to make sure they didn't discover they were clones.

[NC_Yankee]

[QUOTE=FFJamie94;5618735]I think it's a bad idea... That could have possibly worked.
It's written fairly well which is a problem, any other character and this story would have worked. It just doesn't work for Spider-man.

The thing is, it can be easily retconned out. Just make Gabriel and Sarah clones with a story that was fabricated. Have Norman hypnotise MJ into believing the story. While we're at it, make the Norman we've seen since the clone saga a clone as well. Just have a big giant clone battle and retcon the past 30 years of Spider-man books.[/QUOTE
Clones are a stupid and cheap way to explain things. I would love to see a creative and original way to erase stories like Clone Saga and OMD.

[FFJamie94]

[QUOTE=NC_Yankee;5618926]

I think it's a bad idea... That could have possibly worked.
It's written fairly well which is a problem, any other character and this story would have worked. It just doesn't work for Spider-man.

The thing is, it can be easily retconned out. Just make Gabriel and Sarah clones with a story that was fabricated. Have Norman hypnotise MJ into believing the story. While we're at it, make the Norman we've seen since the clone saga a clone as well. Just have a big giant clone battle and retcon the past 30 years of Spider-man books.[/QUOTE
Clones are a stupid and cheap way to explain things. I would love to see a creative and original way to erase stories like Clone Saga and OMD.

Honestly, it would make sense of a lot of things.
How did Norman come back? Just make him a clone. Then you get your cake and eat it

[Jonathangoop1811]

Could people stop talking about the Sins Past story here? It's not part of this thread about Spider-Man Beyond.

But I agree that Sins Past is an horrible story, it was well executed and could have been interesting, except for the fact that Gwen Stacy cheated on Peter and ruined her character, and it ruined several more, like MJ, Peter, and even Norman.

It doesn't even make sense in continuity since this tecnically happened when Norman had amnesia, had no reason to hate Peter and even acted as a friend to Peter, not to mention how disgusting it is when you consider Norman at the time saw Peter as a 'son' in a twisted way and Gwen was Harry's best friend, it never made sense and it only ruined Gwen's character.

On the other hand if it were retcon and made something like Sarah and Gabriel are clones using Gwen's and Norman's DNA to mess with Peter, it would make sense and could bring some interesting stories for them and it won't ruin Gwen Stacy, such an important character in Spider-Man's history.

Honestly, I don't have anything against MJ or Gwen, but I think MJ is the only one who works with Peter because is the only one they bother using and give the development needed, it is true not every woman could accept his life as Spider-Man but I do think there could be some others that at least could make for interesting stories, though I hated OMD, I think a new relationship for Peter could have been interesting, but they never made anything, the only relationship we got was with Carlie Cooper, honestly a disappointing relationship, for me Slott's time was full of missed opportunities, I liked many ideas but didn't liked how they were executed, specially the way Peter has been portrayed all this years since OMD.