Spider-Man Beyond

[Spiderfan001]

Probably but Doctor Strange 2 is currently scheduled to release March next year. That's a while in comic book terms.



We don't know they are sh*tty stories. I imagine you will think they are regardless but for the rest of us we'll have to wait and see. Also I haven't been following the all the news on this but is that what they were planning on doing instead of this; Peter as Spider-Man as Sorcerer Supreme? Obviously I can't judge a story that wont happen but conceptually I'd rather have Beyond than that. Doctor Strange has been a solid Spider-Man ally usually when magic is involved but he's not as close to Peter as Johnny Storm, Matt Murdock, most of the New Avengers that he'd feel a sense of responsibility to replace him. Also while I'm all for a change of pace now and again Spider-Man becoming a magic based hero strikes me as a bit too far. If people thought Parker Industries meant you couldn't ever go back and tell traditional Spidey stories again after briefly being a CEO of major company imagine what it would be like if he was a master of mystic arts. I for one would always be questioning why he isn't spells and magic/



Because while Peter may be shoved off in a disrespectful way he'll almost certainly make a triumphant return in a way that validates him as character by #900. Where Ben fans should feel wary is whether Ben takes a villainous turn or is portrayed as particularly foolish in whatever mistake he makes that forces Peter to return. You could argue he's being more than a little naive trusting the Beyond corporation. That being said I'm cautiously optimistic that he wont come out of this too badly. Maybe even be left in a good place for another stab a Ben Reilly book. We'll see.

I mean it's a death and it's not even lasting a whole year.That's what standards have dropped to now.That horrible.


I never said Peter as sorcerer supreme.I meant this story about Peter doing what strange asked from him in his will would be great.It would still be a one shot.
Even if the story is good(which it may be because of Jed mackay)The emotional depth will just not exist with Ben.Peter and Strange are good friends(not besties but close) and have grown closer in recent years.Him fulfilling Strange's will would be much more powerful and this premise just can't come close to that.
Again it's a one-shot deal, same as what we get now.Idk why you thought he was becoming the sorcerer supreme.
Again he has used magic before.They just wiped his mind.They can also just use artifacts.I mean Ben is also in the same position in his story .

Again Ben will make a triumphant return in 75 so it evens out.They should both get respect in their returns and departures.
Again ASM isn't his book in the first place.This is like complaining that you got a promotion to team leader(by unfairly pushing out a person who earned that Job) but now that means you have to take responsibility of said team.I mean c'mon man
Yeah, I hope so too.Should have brought him back in ASM and then give him his own book in the first place.

[Orbus]

From the way you worded it it sounded like the plan at one point was for Peter to take up Strange's mantle during his death. Peter fulfilling one final mission for Stephen would make a neat one-shot story but if it's just agic based one I think he likewise would choose another magic based character than someone who is uncomfortable with it.

I don't know how triumphant Ben's return will be #75. In universe it will sure look that we way but we the reader know he's in league with some unsavory individuals in Beyond. It's likely he doesn't know they are dodgy it will be the elephant in the room that he'll get in over his head. Then Peter will make his triumphant return which will be for real - that's the difference.

[NC_Yankee]

From the way you worded it it sounded like the plan at one point was for Peter to take up Strange's mantle during his death. Peter fulfilling one final mission for Stephen would make a neat one-shot story but if it's just agic based one I think he likewise would choose another magic based character than someone who is uncomfortable with it.

I don't know how triumphant Ben's return will be #75. In universe it will sure look that we way but we the reader know he's in league with some unsavory individuals in Beyond. It's likely he doesn't know they are dodgy it will be the elephant in the room that he'll get in over his head. Then Peter will make his triumphant return which will be for real - that's the difference.

What should be interesting is Felicia’s role in all of this ( particularly with her and the infinity stones).

[Spiderfan001]

From the way you worded it it sounded like the plan at one point was for Peter to take up Strange's mantle during his death. Peter fulfilling one final mission for Stephen would make a neat one-shot story but if it's just agic based one I think he likewise would choose another magic based character than someone who is uncomfortable with it.

I don't know how triumphant Ben's return will be #75. In universe it will sure look that we way but we the reader know he's in league with some unsavory individuals in Beyond. It's likely he doesn't know they are dodgy it will be the elephant in the room that he'll get in over his head. Then Peter will make his triumphant return which will be for real - that's the difference.

Nope, Just said this was a Peter story and should have been written with him.Marvel doesn't care about continuity, Wanda is in Darkhold and dead in Trial of Magneto at the same time.Throwing a once in a lifetime story like this to Ben who has no emotional connection to this is disrespectful.

In the FCBD they state at the end notes that Peter may retire?or die? or is going to prison?
now maybe these are red-herrings but the point is they are clearing out Peter to make way for Ben.Could just give him his own book or just let Peter and MJ take time off to figure out everything with OMD if they need to give ASM to him.

And there is a clear bias in your statement, if Peter's "death" will be disrespectful then so should Ben's.Same with triumphant.And it's Peter's book just fyi, Ben isn't owed anything in that book.If anything the premise itself is heavily favoring Ben from the start.

[Jman27]

Finally read the issue not much was different from the spoilers except that his old suit was thrown away.

[Spiderfan001]

Finally read the issue not much was different from the spoilers except that his old suit was thrown away.

What does intrigue me is that
1)Beyond knows who Ben is
2)For some time, enough to get his suit and set him up with a team and suit

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

In the FCBD they state at the end notes that Peter may retire?or die? or is going to prison?
now maybe these are red-herrings

Yeah, they rather safely sound the part.

but the point is they are clearing out Peter to make way for Ben.

Peter's de facto Spider-Man ever since the character's debut, he can take a 'replacement arc' every once in a while (lord knows how many times it's happened to Batman). I think even if they said "Peter's taking time off after Sinister War" that also qualifies under "clearing out Peter to make way for Ben".

And it's Peter's book just fyi, Ben isn't owed anything in that book.If anything the premise itself is heavily favoring Ben from the start.

I dunno about that - he's literally shacking up with guys who are an unsavory element, and people who have insiders already said this run is basically a stopgap measure because Spencer's departure came before they expected it. It seems like Ben's basically being set as a fall guy to show that Peter's way is the one that works, pretty much the same as Superior Spider-Man, down to Marvel letting out some "spicy" press releases always touching on Peter possibly "dying" or Ben being "better".

It's all well and fun right until you remember comics are comics, and everything will revert to the status quo soon enough.

[Spiderfan001]

Yeah, they rather safely sound the part.


Peter's de facto Spider-Man ever since the character's debut, he can take a 'replacement arc' every once in a while (lord knows how many times it's happened to Batman). I think even if they said "Peter's taking time off after Sinister War" that also qualifies under "clearing out Peter to make way for Ben".


I dunno about that - he's literally shacking up with guys who are an unsavory element, and people who have insiders already said this run is basically a stopgap measure because Spencer's departure came before they expected it. It seems like Ben's basically being set as a fall guy to show that Peter's way is the one that works, pretty much the same as Superior Spider-Man, down to Marvel letting out some "spicy" press releases always touching on Peter possibly "dying" or Ben being "better".

It's all well and fun right until you remember comics are comics, and everything will revert to the status quo soon enough.

1)You missed the whole point, they aren't introducing Ben in ASM as a character like normal.They want Peter out and not in a good way.This doesn't end well for peter.

2)Again all his "deaths" have been for someone else.Let me elaborate

Most characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, etc. "die" for their own story and then are replaced. Peter is "specifically" killed for the replacing.If Peter died as an organic and natural conclusion to Sinister War and then was replaced, no problems.

And this type of "death" means we don't get comics focusing on the characters and their place in the MU like Wolverine, etc.His "death" is ignored in the MU.

And we just got superior and now this.Ben has already replaced Peter once, specifically to get rid of the marriage which is now being addressed after over a decade.Instead of focusing on the aftermath of SW and What cost victory they do this.

Peter's best replacement was in the 1610 and even then they didn't have the courtesy to wait and let his death breathe and shoved Miles in his Death of Spider-man series.Could have waited like 3-6 months and this is the best case scenario and not even canon.Superior, Ben's first time replacing him and now beyond are much worse.

I doubt it, Peter ain't even part of the FCBD.Only thing we have is him on death beds severely beaten and being told that this is gonna be fatal for him.And the worst part is we already know he's falling in the second issue and the third one puts the focus right back on Ben.

Again, let's wait and see.It looks bad acc. to promos and the multiple writers BND style doesn't help but maybe they surprise us.

[Jman27]

Yeah, they rather safely sound the part.


Peter's de facto Spider-Man ever since the character's debut, he can take a 'replacement arc' every once in a while (lord knows how many times it's happened to Batman). I think even if they said "Peter's taking time off after Sinister War" that also qualifies under "clearing out Peter to make way for Ben".


I dunno about that - he's literally shacking up with guys who are an unsavory element, and people who have insiders already said this run is basically a stopgap measure because Spencer's departure came before they expected it. It seems like Ben's basically being set as a fall guy to show that Peter's way is the one that works, pretty much the same as Superior Spider-Man, down to Marvel letting out some "spicy" press releases always touching on Peter possibly "dying" or Ben being "better".

It's all well and fun right until you remember comics are comics, and everything will revert to the status quo soon enough.

yup we will get our rent struggling peter sooner rather than later.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Most characters like Iron Man, Captain America, Wolverine, Batman, etc. "die" for their own story and then are replaced. Peter is "specifically" killed for the replacing.If Peter died as an organic and natural conclusion to Sinister War and then was replaced, no problems.

I'm reasonably sure (if we use 'death' in a sweeping fashion like this) that when DC first made Bruce quit for a bit so Nightwing became Batman, they did that specifically for the replacing to begin with.

I doubt it, Peter ain't even part of the FCBD.

It was only seven pages long. There's only so much you stuff in a short preview.

Only thing we have is him on death beds severely beaten and being told that this is gonna be fatal for him.

We were also constantly told during Superior that Peter was gone for good and wouldn't come back, with the courtesy of that issue where all the debris of his memories fall on him and "ghost Peter" stops nudging Otto to say "and now it's absolutely final, you don't bounce back from that".

Sure enough, he did.

For whatever reason, Marvel fell in love with "angry fans are good, because it means sales" and they want to keep poking the hornet's nest with a short stick. Someone even drudged a solicit from an upcoming Beyond compilation where it says Peter isn't thrilled that Ben's working with Beyond to begin with, so I rather doubt all this pot-stirring of "Peter's MIGHT die" (they just keep using "if", to boot) is coming to anything. Because, anytime they want to kill a hero, even if it's the upteenth time, they tend to make a huge splash about it.

See Death of Dr. Strange.

[Spiderfan001]

I'm reasonably sure (if we use 'death' in a sweeping fashion like this) that when DC first made Bruce quit for a bit so Nightwing became Batman, they did that specifically for the replacing to begin with.


It was only seven pages long. There's only so much you stuff in a short preview.


We were also constantly told during Superior that Peter was gone for good and wouldn't come back, with the courtesy of that issue where all the debris of his memories fall on him and "ghost Peter" stops nudging Otto to say "and now it's absolutely final, you don't bounce back from that".

Sure enough, he did.

For whatever reason, Marvel fell in love with "angry fans are good, because it means sales" and they want to keep poking the hornet's nest with a short stick. Someone even drudged a solicit from an upcoming Beyond compilation where it says Peter isn't thrilled that Ben's working with Beyond to begin with, so I rather doubt all this pot-stirring of "Peter's MIGHT die" (they just keep using "if", to boot) is coming to anything. Because, anytime they want to kill a hero, even if it's the upteenth time, they tend to make a huge splash about it.

See Death of Dr. Strange.

Can you address all points if you are going to reply, instead of selecting few that suit your argument and ignoring the rest.

Yes, one example, and why did Bruce quit btw.Was it because of something to do with him or did Nightwing take over his mind or did Bruce get "killed" for the replacing.I don't know the answer but I'm willing to bet it was Bruce's story that led to his choice.Peter isn't choosing to retire, is he? And all the other examples still stand.

Just shows where there priorities are.Venom showed both Dylan and Eddie as well.Not even a reference.And the "real Spider-man" line with the framing, yeah I doubt they care about Peter.

And it lasted for more than a year.So many events and tie-ins were taken for that story.Avenging Spider-man was a fantastic book that got ruined by the change, and even when Spider-man apeared in Hickman run it was Ock.And let's not forget how stupid it was that no one figured something was wrong considering his dialogue seemed very Ock like and nothing like Spider- man.
Oh and how he s*xually assaulted MJ(she didn't even know who she was making out with and how old he was), even worse by the fact he almost married Aunt May as well.

Yeah, let's talk about Doc's death.He gets his own mini and tie-ins for his death.The f*ck does peter get, his story about fulfilling doc's final wish taken from him and aftermath of OMD revealed taken from us.

Yeah I'd much rather have him get the Doctor Strange treatment.

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Just shows where there priorities are.Venom showed both Dylan and Eddie as well.Not even a reference.

Actually, you had Ben literally refer to Peter as the real Spider-Man. The shady guys that have been portrayed as villains are the ones who say Ben is the real deal.

And the "real Spider-man" line with the framing, yeah I doubt they care about Peter.

Superior was also littered with references to how people (mostly civilians) thought Otto's way of handling things was "better", down to approving of him literally gunning down Massacre. And yet when all chips were down, Otto's handling of the Spider-Man life went up in flames, he basically just said Peter was the better man and admitted his insecurities. This is how a run literally billed all the time with "Peter's gone for good, this is Spider-Man moving forward" concluded as. Which, meanwhile, the most we've got in the way of that are solicits saying Peter is going through something that "might" be fatal for Beyond.

[Spiderfan001]

Actually, you had Ben literally refer to Peter as the real Spider-Man. The shady guys that have been portrayed as villains are the ones who say Ben is the real deal.


Superior was also littered with references to how people (mostly civilians) thought Otto's way of handling things was "better", down to approving of him literally gunning down Massacre. And yet when all chips were down, Otto's handling of the Spider-Man life went up in flames, he basically just said Peter was the better man and admitted his insecurities. This is how a run literally billed all the time with "Peter's gone for good, this is Spider-Man moving forward" concluded as. Which, meanwhile, the most we've got in the way of that are solicits saying Peter is going through something that "might" be fatal for Beyond.

Again ignoring most of my points but oh well...

The entire promotion from the interview to the covers to the solicits say Peter is going down.
Issue 2(76) literally states 2 Spiders swing in and one Swings out.The editor said a weight will be placed on Peter which he can't lift.It is gonna be fatal by the words of the writers.What else do you need?

[bob.schoonover]

Again ignoring most of my points but oh well...

The entire promotion from the interview to the covers to the solicits say Peter is going down.
Issue 2(76) literally states 2 Spiders swing in and one Swings out.The editor said a weight will be placed on Peter which he can't lift.It is gonna be fatal by the words of the writers.What else do you need?

The actual story to judge? Again, the lead up to Superior and until Goblin Nation was in full swing, all of the solicitation copy and comments from editorial were that Peter was dead forever, that Otto was Superior, etc. This is not hard. There is a story coming and most of us just want to see where it goes without assuming too much

You asked earlier about Batman being replaced. The first time, Bane kicked the snot out of him, broke his back, then tossed him in a dumpster. Bruce then handed the cowl to a dude with hallucination issues. None of it was heroic. The second time, Darkseid sent him to the past and replaced his body with a clone and no one knew he was really alive (except Tim). Dick took over and the whole point of the story was that the concept of Batman was greater than Bruce Wayne (also, the point of Dark Knight Rises).

[Spiderfan001]

The actual story to judge? Again, the lead up to Superior and until Goblin Nation was in full swing, all of the solicitation copy and comments from editorial were that Peter was dead forever, that Otto was Superior, etc. This is not hard. There is a story coming and most of us just want to see where it goes without assuming too much

You asked earlier about Batman being replaced. The first time, Bane kicked the snot out of him, broke his back, then tossed him in a dumpster. Bruce then handed the cowl to a dude with hallucination issues. None of it was heroic. The second time, Darkseid sent him to the past and replaced his body with a clone and no one knew he was really alive (except Tim). Dick took over and the whole point of the story was that the concept of Batman was greater than Bruce Wayne (also, the point of Dark Knight Rises).

But both times it was Batman's own story that led to him being replaced.Peter is taken out for the sole purpose of replacement.