Spider-Man Beyond

[NC_Yankee]

Could you elaborate?

If you want to compare Amazing with Peter is like a Porterhouse Steak and Amazing with Ben is like a Burger King Whopper. Except you are paying Porterhouse prices and getting a Whopper

[FFJamie94]

I don't mind beyond as a concept and it's pretty clear it's around 25 issues.I don't like it affecting other events w/ Peter like the Strange tie-in which in concept alone would be miles better than w/Ben given same level of execution.And now Zdarsky DD street level event which Peter should and hopefully is a part of.Not like he gets to play a big role in the bigger ones.

And Spencer's biggest reason for success and support is his characterization.His Spider-man, Peter are both *chef's kiss*.MJ and Black Cat are a treat as well.Stuff like New Avengers reunion is great and I loved the storylines like hunted and Last remains.
That and it's addressing the most asked for storyline, OMD.Beyond is making up it's thing, no one asked for Ben to be Spider-man again.Most fans want OMD to be addressed hence the patience.

Side note Carlos gomez(guest ASM artist for Spencer and the Beyond stuff and posts multiple panels for both Spencer and Beyond issues months before) has said that kindred's real identity is gonna be a major twist and not Harry.That keeps me hyped since some speculate that it won't be revealed and will be played like a "It doesn't matter who I am" thing.

To break it down Kindred does have a twist in the following issues and OMD is the best hook possible,and the best characterization in BND era.Beyond is making up it's own hook and with BND style multiple writers quality of issues will vary.

I’m going to be honest, I don’t think Spencer’s run is that great. He may have gotten things right in terms of characterisation, but his run doesn’t stand on its own. To say “kindred is Harry, no he isn’t, he is X” feels cheap to be honest. The thing that excites me is that the run is so insane I have no idea where it’s going next. In that case, he is doing great, but it’s all house cleaning, when it is done and we are years away from it, we won’t see Spencer’s run as the great spider-man run we wanted it to be. It’s just a pretty good run that honestly started great.

I don’t know if Beyond will change that, but it gives them time to reframe Peter. Focusing on Ben for a while will allow Something new. If it’s good, we get 25 issues of a modern classic, if it’s bad, Peter will be back within a year.

Him not being in events isn’t going to upset me, Spider-man will probably play a small role in Zdarsky’s event and he’ll probably write him like he writes Peter.
So you can just pretend it is Peter, it’s not like it matters that much.

[Spiderfan001]

If you want to compare Amazing with Peter is like a Porterhouse Steak and Amazing with Ben is like a Burger King Whopper. Except you are paying Porterhouse prices and getting a Whopper

Yeah this makes a lot of sense.
I mean give us the option for both at their respective "price" and we'd be cool

[Spiderfan001]

I’m going to be honest, I don’t think Spencer’s run is that great. He may have gotten things right in terms of characterisation, but his run doesn’t stand on its own. To say “kindred is Harry, no he isn’t, he is X” feels cheap to be honest. The thing that excites me is that the run is so insane I have no idea where it’s going next. In that case, he is doing great, but it’s all house cleaning, when it is done and we are years away from it, we won’t see Spencer’s run as the great spider-man run we wanted it to be. It’s just a pretty good run that honestly started great.

I don’t know if Beyond will change that, but it gives them time to reframe Peter. Focusing on Ben for a while will allow Something new. If it’s good, we get 25 issues of a modern classic, if it’s bad, Peter will be back within a year.

Him not being in events isn’t going to upset me, Spider-man will probably play a small role in Zdarsky’s event and he’ll probably write him like he writes Peter.
So you can just pretend it is Peter, it’s not like it matters that much.

Spencer's run is a transition run, cleaning the plate for the next writers and focusing on the marriage etc.That's why beyond is stupid in timing as well, not just in concept.

This should be followed by classic Peter run.

Again Chip likes writing Peter, and does it extremely well.And gives him big roles as well.And street level events should always have Peter.
And the tie-in stuff just hurts, that Doc Strange thing sucks.
Hopefully we wrap this up quick and any tie-ins w/ FF,Avengers,Krakoa or others are Pete.

[Pav]

If you want to compare Amazing with Peter is like a Porterhouse Steak and Amazing with Ben is like a Burger King Whopper. Except you are paying Porterhouse prices and getting a Whopper

If Peter is a steak, then Ben is a steak cooked to perfection and covered in a delicious sauce -- because Ben has everything Peter has PLUS the existential dread.

-Pav, who is hungry all of a sudden...

[Huntsman Spider]

If Peter is a steak, then Ben is a steak cooked to perfection and covered in a delicious sauce -- because Ben has everything Peter has PLUS the existential dread.

-Pav, who is hungry all of a sudden...

That's a good one. The existential dread of being "nothing but a clone." Hell, existential dread is something a lot of us can relate to these days, even Peter himself, given his speech in ASM 60 about how he always ends up in the same place, the same rut, no matter what changes he seems to make in his life.

[Spiderfan001]

If Peter is a steak, then Ben is a steak cooked to perfection and covered in a delicious sauce -- because Ben has everything Peter has PLUS the existential dread.

-Pav, who is hungry all of a sudden...

No, if Peter is a steak then Ben is made of substitute vegetarian meat, I mean literally.He has the memories Peter does, he hasn't done those things.
And when Ben first replaced Peter comics plummeted and they had to bring Peter back, so your cooking analogy is just wrong.
And Peter even in the dreadful BND era has more than Ben in said era a.k.a. the 5 years they differed.

Of course, there are people who like the substitution stuff and that's cool but it's pretty clear whose better, if Ben is more and better cooked why did they kick him out and bring Peter back in as Spider-man.

And even in popularity polls general media wise most don't even know Ben, and in smaller scale comic poles Peter is far superior as the better Spider-man than Ben(and any other).
I did the poll because people said Ock,Ben,Miles etc. are more loved but it's not even close.

Facts don't care about feelings.

-Spiderfan, who can't wait for the original and the best to come back in 900

[Spiderfan001]

That's a good one. The existential dread of being "nothing but a clone." Hell, existential dread is something a lot of us can relate to these days, even Peter himself, given his speech in ASM 60 about how he always ends up in the same place, the same rut, no matter what changes he seems to make in his life.

And Peter's existential dread and his speech in 60 is more compelling than "just a clone" which worked great but one would think we've grown out of it.

Side note, read some spoilers for SW 4 and big stuff happens.

[Pav]

No, if Peter is a steak then Ben is made of substitute vegetarian meat, I mean literally.He has the memories Peter does, he hasn't done those things.
And when Ben first replaced Peter comics plummeted and they had to bring Peter back, so your cooking analogy is just wrong.
And Peter even in the dreadful BND era has more than Ben in said era a.k.a. the 5 years they differed.

Of course, there are people who like the substitution stuff and that's cool but it's pretty clear whose better, if Ben is more and better cooked why did they kick him out and bring Peter back in as Spider-man.

And even in popularity polls general media wise most don't even know Ben, and in smaller scale comic poles Peter is far superior as the better Spider-man than Ben(and any other).
I did the poll because people said Ock,Ben,Miles etc. are more loved but it's not even close.

Facts don't care about feelings.

-Spiderfan, who can't wait for the original and the best to come back in 900

Dude. Just let us have fun. You don't need to write up a dissertation on why Peter is better.

IT'S ALL JUST FOR FUN.

And Ben is better.

-Pav, who literally lectures for a living and doesn't need any here...

[Spiderfan001]

Dude. Just let us have fun. You don't need to write up a dissertation on why Peter is better.

IT'S ALL JUST FOR FUN.

And Ben is better.

-Pav, who literally lectures for a living and doesn't need any here...

You make baseless claims that Ben is better and then when someone makes a different claim and backs it up it's not "fun" anymore.
And Peter is better and I actually showed why I feel so.I can be wrong but atleast I provide why I made a statement.

And the fact you feel the need to keep rubbing your job in our faces doesn't make your posts any better.For a lecturer you don't seem to know how a point is made, in fact you don't even try to.Again you aren't saying he's your favorite, your saying he's objectively better which I think is wrong and I give reasons as to why.

Your opinion hasn't been backed up by anything remotely concrete, you don't even try to make an argument.If you are trolling just say so?

We all have our favorites, but both popularity and character wise Peter has proven superior.

They literally gave Ben ASM and it tanked, and they had to bring back Peter to get sales back on track.That itself is proof who is "better".

Cope harder...

[HypnoHustler]

You make baseless claims that Ben is better and then when someone makes a different claim and backs it up it's not "fun" anymore.
And Peter is better and I actually showed why I feel so.I can be wrong but atleast I provide why I made a statement.

And the fact you feel the need to keep rubbing your job in our faces doesn't make your posts any better.For a lecturer you don't seem to know how a point is made, in fact you don't even try to.Again you aren't saying he's your favorite, your saying he's objectively better which I think is wrong and I give reasons as to why.

Your opinion hasn't been backed up by anything remotely concrete, you don't even try to make an argument.If you are trolling just say so?

We all have our favorites, but both popularity and character wise Peter has proven superior.

They literally gave Ben ASM and it tanked, and they had to bring back Peter to get sales back on track.That itself is proof who is "better".

Cope harder...

Really? You’ve been incessantly ranting about Beyond for 2 months. Half the posts on the board are from you and it’s always the same diatribes about Peter being replaced. Pav has been here MUCH longer and is quite chill in general, so you should mind who you’re calling a “troll.” You even trolled the Ben Reilly appreciation thread for a month when it’s clear you can’t stand the character. You should show some restraint in your posts and how you interact with others here if you want people to treat you with respect. Finally, you say facts can back you up… but this isn’t a scientific analysis. It’s comics. People can like or dislike whatever they want and that’s their personal taste. Pav can fully believe Ben is the best Spidey if he wants, just as some people say the same about Miles or even Superior. No one is taking your precious Peter from you; he’ll always be around. This is a finite storyline that will last six months tops, and it hasn’t even come out yet.

[bob.schoonover]

I'm happy to come in and grade everyone's arguments if that's necessary. Which it seems like it might be...

[Spiderfan001]

Really? You’ve been incessantly ranting about Beyond for 2 months. Half the posts on the board are from you and it’s always the same diatribes about Peter being replaced. Pav has been here MUCH longer and is quite chill in general, so you should mind who you’re calling a “troll.” You even trolled the Ben Reilly appreciation thread for a month when it’s clear you can’t stand the character. You should show some restraint in your posts and how you interact with others here if you want people to treat you with respect. Finally, you say facts can back you up… but this isn’t a scientific analysis. It’s comics. People can like or dislike whatever they want and that’s their personal taste. Pav can fully believe Ben is the best Spidey if he wants, just as some people say the same about Miles or even Superior. No one is taking your precious Peter from you; he’ll always be around. This is a finite storyline that will last six months tops, and it hasn’t even come out yet.

1)Never said he was a troll.I asked if he was trolling because

a)PAV started it by saying Ben is better by quoting NC_Yankee who said Peter was better, then I quoted him giving several reasons based in facts(sales,polls,etc.) why Peter is indeed better which PAV then quoted deflecting and taking moral high ground.Which was the same as last time we talked.

b)bringing up his "Lecturer" job as if that makes his posts any more valid, not the first time w/ me either.Not only can I not verify he is a lecturer, it doesn't change the content of his posts.His posts(atleast the ones I've seen) don't show it.

2)I did mention multiple times you can like and dislike whoever you want and feel if one character is better.I stated why I feel Peter is better and stated as to why.No one is saying who you have to think is better, but if one has backed up his claim, then respond w/ backed up claims or say it's your opinion.Deflecting(he still says he's better and not backing up) and taking moral high ground("fun", Lecturer job) seems right to you?

3)It was one day, not one month.And 3 posts that were the problem and were removed by me the same day, please tell me which "month" it was, and even still my points were always backed up and never presented as fact.The only problem was negative criticism of a character doesn't belong on an appreciation thread, for which I did apologize and haven't done since.

4)Ranting w/ reason, that's pretty important

5)Agreed about facts but some like sales are science, popularity can be measured specially when the gap is so huge.It doesn't need to be accurate.
Who is more popular Batman or Cassandra Cain can be answered same way this can.But Batman vs Superman is too close to call.

6)He does seem/is more "chill" than me, for which I apologize.Could you point out where I should show said restraint(genuinely asking), the trolling was a question because I really can't tell.Anything else?

[Spiderfan001]

I'm happy to come in and grade everyone's arguments if that's necessary. Which it seems like it might be...

If you want to, although I'm not gonna push anything more.I do seem to be "in the wrong".Will likely just drop this and wait for Issue 75 to drop.

BTW Carlos Gomez has been posting a lot more beyond panels(like 3 a day) including Miles in his new costume so seems that will stick.

[Captain Craig]

Both steak in my book. Steak comes in different cuts everyone.
Since both are Peter or "of Peter" its like steak coming from cow. How and where you slice it and prepare it determines its flavor, toughness or tenderness.

-Captain Craig, looking forward to sampling the menu