Spider-Man Beyond

[Spiderfan001]

I just want Peter to chill with Ben. There was bad blood between them in Clone conspiracy, and the less is said about recent Scarlett Spider series, the better.

Just let Ben be Ben, and don't kill him at the end of Beyond. People waited more than 20 years for story like this. Marvel, treat Ben with respect.

All the covers,promos, solicits say either Peter is "dead",fatally wounded or not happy that Ben is back.
Peter should be chill w/Ben and vice-versa but everything we have got shows the opposite.
Treat them both w/respect, Peter fans(the vast majority) won't take to beyond if they push him down.I don't mean if he leaves ASM for a bit, it's the execution.

[Spiderfan001]

I'm becoming more and more of the opinion that a lot of the Beyond solicits and covers are a pretty big feint and Peter will already be off the board by the end of ASM #74. I could obviously be wrong, but I've been having a hard time squaring "Pete is fine enough after Spencer's run (with some big momentous ending) and Zeb Wells' big pitch was, 'But what if he wasn't?'" Editorial is obviously allowed to make a mistake, but would they really get a "and Peter learns about OMD" ending from Spencer and then immediately kill or maim Peter in an unrelated story so he can't address the reveal?

Instead, Marvel specifically (and possibly frantically depending on how Spencer's departure was handled) seeking pitches for "We need someone else headlining ASM while we regroup on a "bringing Peter back" story and getting this Beyond pitch seems much more ... likely.

It's also not impossible that whatever Jason Aaron is doing in Avengers with Mephisto(s) will be hitting this summer, and the reason Peter is being taken off the board in ASM is so that he can be front and center for that story . . .

Yeah, Zeb's a smart guy from what I've seen and the timing on Beyond as a concept is just awful, considering Spencer's run was a clean up run and the marriage being addressed.
On the other hand if Peter is out at the end of Spencer's run Beyond makes sense.

But we've already seen that Peter will be part of beyond and that 2nd issue will be his downfall so this is all delusion and chances are they really f*cked up.

[David Walton]

I just want Peter to chill with Ben. There was bad blood between them in Clone conspiracy, and the less is said about recent Scarlett Spider series, the better.

Just let Ben be Ben, and don't kill him at the end of Beyond. People waited more than 20 years for story like this. Marvel, treat Ben with respect.

I'd like Peter and Ben to have a brotherly relationship complete with a bit of sibling rivalry. Lots of love but also tension. And it doesn't have to be a knock down drag out fight kind of thing, just more of Peter not entirely trusting Ben's decision to work with the Beyond Corp.

The thing about Peter is that he tends to react from his gut and feels very passionately about things, so one of the most interesting things about having two Peter Parker templates is what happens when they feel differently about something important to them?

It's like having an in-universe what if every time something big comes up. Imagine, for instance, a Civil War with Ben around, and them feeling differently about registration.

[bob.schoonover]

But we've already seen that Peter will be part of beyond and that 2nd issue will be his downfall so this is all delusion and chances are they really f*cked up.

Don't trust solicits or company commentary, especially if you think something big is coming up. Do you remember the solicits for Superior before they revealed it was Otto? Or Slott "accidentally" leaking a design sketch that suggested it was Miguel? The solicits could be entirely accurate, of course, or they could be a smokescreen for a big thing happening in ASM 74. My position is smokescreen, because I've seen it happen before

As a side note, "this is all delusion" is the kind of comment you make that pisses people off. I'm not necessarily right, but it's hardly worth a dismissive tone, especially since we've literally seen it happen before (and if you haven't the memory for these types of things, you certainly should ask if it has happened before rather than being ... that)

[Pav]

I love all your posts, I’m not gonna lie, lol. I live for your posts here.

Yeah, Pav is great! I’ve never seen anyone pick a fight with him until now… complete bonkers.

Keep doing what you’re doing, Pav. Viva la Ben!

Really? You’ve been incessantly ranting about Beyond for 2 months. Half the posts on the board are from you and it’s always the same diatribes about Peter being replaced. Pav has been here MUCH longer and is quite chill in general, so you should mind who you’re calling a “troll.”

Thanks for the kind comments; I appreciate knowing that my contributions to our conversations here are enjoyed by others! But honestly, I just want everyone to enjoy being a part of this community.

It seems crazy even to me, but I've been posting about Spidey comics for a long time now: I remember using my dial-up internet after school in the 90s so that I could post to the AOL Marvel Comics message board; then, I remember posting to the Alvaro boards during college. I've been demanding the Scarlet Spider be the leader of the Slingers for quite a while!

I do think it's important to keep a few things in mind, even if they aren't actual rules of the board.

1) It's important not to be dismissive of others' opinions and theories. Even if you disagree, you can (and should) respond in a respectful way. Having evidence on your side doesn't automatically make one's notions THE TRUTH. Contradictory ideas can both have heaps of evidence in their favor. Blatantly wrong ideas can have evidence in their favor. In general, "Debate Me Dudes" aren't coming to the table for constructive reasons; I know because I used to be one.

2) Try not to be so emotionally attached to your opinions and perspectives. When we become too attached to our own perspective, we tend to denounce any and all other perspectives, which doesn't create harmony within the community.

3) Ask yourself: how important is it really that I make any given point? I've certainly struggled with this, and it's only now that I'm in my mid 30s that I find it easier to say to myself, "It's not that important that I prove I'm right" or "I don't really gain anything by continuing this argument." But I can admit that past Pav could be an argumentative prick at times; even now it can be hard to convince myself that it isn't that important to convince people that my thinking is the right way to think.

4) Be positive and enjoy the contributions of others. I honestly don't understand how so many comic fans have become negative nellies; maybe it's an illusion caused by the internet and social media; maybe it's human tendency to focus on problems rather than what pleases us about the comics we read. Regardless, I personally find it difficult to converse with someone who is always taking a negative stance.

5) I say this one as someone who has been teaching reading and writing at various educational levels for almost fifteen years now: if you haven't read something yet, you should be honest enough with yourself to know your understanding of that text is incredibly limited. As others have said, solicits are sometimes tricky in what they show us without context. I think it's important to have humility and realize that one should wait until experiencing something before making any strong claims in regards to it.

---------

I truly hope that my ideas here are meaningful to others who post here. I just want us all to have a good time in exchanging our ideas about these comics we love so much.

For those fans who don't have the attachment to Ben that I and others do: try to put yourselves in our shoes. Ben's my favorite character, and it's been a long time since he'd been used well. Why pee on our parade? Our Benny Boy is back -- let us enjoy these few months. Peter Parker isn't going anywhere, and Ben's use isn't a sign that Peter is being disrespected by Marvel. It's just. a. story.

-Pav, who really does want everyone to get along...

[Spiderfan001]

Agreed w/. most of what's said above.I can also say most Spider-man fans aren't mad ben is back, it's that they are replacing Peter AGAIN w/ Ben AGAIN to sideline the Spider-marriage AGAIN.

The marriage has been gone for more than a decade and unlike Ben who is a Low B- C lister Spider-man is the biggest character and the marriage is a crucial element that was taken away.
Ben's return isn't the problem, Beyond as a concept and more importantly it's timing is.

What's worse is that this is his 60th aniversary and the biggest Spider-movie is being launched and the 900th issue is approaching.All this should be used to build Peter up, how would people feel if Miles was replaced by his clone for his 10th aniversary?

Aside from the concept and it's timing, the execution doesn't seem great.
Solicits show 1st issue is Ben's intro and Peter's gone by the 2nd.Then we move straight onto Ben in the next issues.
Wanda gets a mini for her "Death", so does Doctor Strange.Wolverine, Caps and Tony's deaths were short lived yet impacted the entire MU.
Wanda isn't even dead.

Peter's "death"/coma/whatever isn't even acknowlegded in his own book for an issue.

And it seems it will be done by the U-foes, not that it's confirmed and I hope I'm wrong but if this is the case then that's horrible.

All this is a sign that Spider-man and more importantly his fans specially long time ones are indeed being "disrespected" by Marvel.

We just got Peter MJ back and Spencer's run was jam packed with so much stuff we didn't get much of them, not to forget MJ was away for her movie/mini.Beyond is already "peeing" on the Spider-marriage.

All this isn't even taking into regard how much the story will push Peter down, all this is assuming the Story won't degrade him at all.

[Spiderfan001]

Don't trust solicits or company commentary, especially if you think something big is coming up. Do you remember the solicits for Superior before they revealed it was Otto? Or Slott "accidentally" leaking a design sketch that suggested it was Miguel? The solicits could be entirely accurate, of course, or they could be a smokescreen for a big thing happening in ASM 74. My position is smokescreen, because I've seen it happen before

As a side note, "this is all delusion" is the kind of comment you make that pisses people off. I'm not necessarily right, but it's hardly worth a dismissive tone, especially since we've literally seen it happen before (and if you haven't the memory for these types of things, you certainly should ask if it has happened before rather than being ... that)

I'd agree but it's just so much stuff.This isn't just a small part.And solicits can be misleading but if the issue is solicited to have Kraven and Morbius w/Ben it will have them.
And all promotion is meant to allow us to form an early opinion, if anything things look better than they are.If it looks positive it could be negative(TLOU2 trailer having those fake shots of Joel being alive), it's almost never the other way.

I say that because people are saying they will both be there but solicits, promo's and even the writers have said this is an era w/out Peter Parker.

I understand speculation but the proof that this is indeed a Peter-less era is very concrete.Marvel has never done false marketing to this extent.

[HypnoHustler]

Agreed w/. most of what's said above.I can also say most Spider-man fans aren't mad ben is back, it's that they are replacing Peter AGAIN w/ Ben AGAIN to sideline the Spider-marriage AGAIN.

The marriage has been gone for more than a decade and unlike Ben who is a Low B- C lister Spider-man is the biggest character and the marriage is a crucial element that was taken away.
Ben's return isn't the problem, Beyond as a concept and more importantly it's timing is.

What's worse is that this is his 60th aniversary and the biggest Spider-movie is being launched and the 900th issue is approaching.All this should be used to build Peter up, how would people feel if Miles was replaced by his clone for his 10th aniversary?

Aside from the concept and it's timing, the execution doesn't seem great.
Solicits show 1st issue is Ben's intro and Peter's gone by the 2nd.Then we move straight onto Ben in the next issues.
Wanda gets a mini for her "Death", so does Doctor Strange.Wolverine, Caps and Tony's deaths were short lived yet impacted the entire MU.
Wanda isn't even dead.

Peter's "death"/coma/whatever isn't even acknowlegded in his own book for an issue.

And it seems it will be done by the U-foes, not that it's confirmed and I hope I'm wrong but if this is the case then that's horrible.

All this is a sign that Spider-man and more importantly his fans specially long time ones are indeed being "disrespected" by Marvel.

We just got Peter MJ back and Spencer's run was jam packed with so much stuff we didn't get much of them, not to forget MJ was away for her movie/mini.Beyond is already "peeing" on the Spider-marriage.

All this isn't even taking into regard how much the story will push Peter down, all this is assuming the Story won't degrade him at all.

What “execution”? Aside from a 7 page Free Comic preview, the event hasn’t even started yet. You make so many assumptions about a story that hasn’t even been released yet. Of course you’ll hate it and not even give it a chance because you go into it with this extremely negative mindset. In your own words, you should really “cope harder” with Ben taking over for a short period and try to look at it objectively instead of “peeing” on it before it even comes out. Maybe it’ll suck, maybe it’ll surprise you and be good, but you’ve basically shut yourself off to even giving it a chance. And you’re sounding like a broken record with the same ‘replacement’ complaints over and over again. At least try out some new material.

[HypnoHustler]

Thanks for the kind comments; I appreciate knowing that my contributions to our conversations here are enjoyed by others! But honestly, I just want everyone to enjoy being a part of this community.

It seems crazy even to me, but I've been posting about Spidey comics for a long time now: I remember using my dial-up internet after school in the 90s so that I could post to the Marvel Comics message board; then, I remember posting to the Alvaro boards during college. I've been demanding the Scarlet Spider be the leader of the Slingers for quite a while!

No way! I also posted on the Alvaro boards in the late 90s. Maybe I interacted with you under a different handle! Unfortunately those boards seem pretty dead now… I did also post on SuperheroHype forums for a while, and there too the Spidey boards are pretty dead. This place and the Spidey sub-Reddit are pretty much the only places to discuss him nowadays.

[Blanks]

What “execution”? Aside from a 7 page Free Comic preview, the event hasn’t even started yet. You make so many assumptions about a story that hasn’t even been released yet. Of course you’ll hate it and not even give it a chance because you go into it with this extremely negative mindset. In your own words, you should really “cope harder” with Ben taking over for a short period and try to look at it objectively instead of “peeing” on it before it even comes out. Maybe it’ll suck, maybe it’ll surprise you and be good, but you’ve basically shut yourself off to even giving it a chance. And you’re sounding like a broken record with the same ‘replacement’ complaints over and over again. At least try out some new material.

His/her (because I don’t want to assume) whole reply to Pav read like a passive aggressive response, agreeing but not, while still repeating the same bullet points that was made since the announcement, in both Ben, Beyond and Miles appreciation threads.

[Blanks]

Thanks for the kind comments; I appreciate knowing that my contributions to our conversations here are enjoyed by others! But honestly, I just want everyone to enjoy being a part of this community.

It seems crazy even to me, but I've been posting about Spidey comics for a long time now: I remember using my dial-up internet after school in the 90s so that I could post to the Marvel Comics message board; then, I remember posting to the Alvaro boards during college. I've been demanding the Scarlet Spider be the leader of the Slingers for quite a while!

I see as a kindred spirit (or clone) in regards to our mutual appreciation of Ben’s story. I’ve read your responses for years now in regards to Ben and his circle abs at times it feels as if I’m reading my own words straight from someone else. Your thoughts practically al Isr mirror my own in regards to Ben, Kaine, the whole clone conspiracy from the mid 90’s to now. I can’t remember if I was on those message boards back in the day, as an active user, but I remember searching as much as I could and reading everything I could regarding the scarlet-Spider-man era of Ben on my dialup modem too, lol

[Captain Craig]

Pretty cool. What did you think of Curse of the Man-Thing from earlier this year, given one of the three one-shots that comprised that storyline was Spider-Man: Curse of the Man-Thing?

Thank you.
Man thing is pretty cool.
How did you feel about the Curse of Man-thing event we just got?

I liked it. Adding a bit of backstory twist to Sallis use of and application of the super soldier serum ended up being fine. That first issue cliffhanger though made it look like a big retcon was coming.
New foe Harrower was a bit of a let down I felt so I hope some other writer can do more with her.
Was hoping this might be a backdoor 'pilot' towards a new series but alas.

[Spiderfan001]

What “execution”? Aside from a 7 page Free Comic preview, the event hasn’t even started yet. You make so many assumptions about a story that hasn’t even been released yet. Of course you’ll hate it and not even give it a chance because you go into it with this extremely negative mindset. In your own words, you should really “cope harder” with Ben taking over for a short period and try to look at it objectively instead of “peeing” on it before it even comes out. Maybe it’ll suck, maybe it’ll surprise you and be good, but you’ve basically shut yourself off to even giving it a chance. And you’re sounding like a broken record with the same ‘replacement’ complaints over and over again. At least try out some new material.

"Execution":-Read the post, I have pointed out why.I'll highlight some points for you again
1)We know Peter is gone by the second issue and then we immediately focus on Ben.
2)It's highly likely it's the U-foes or someone with no special bases in Spider-mythos, having such an important "death"/coma/being written out of the story.Such a death should be a part of a big story climax and/or by someone like Morlun
3)The timing:-It's gonna sideline the marriage/relationship most fans have been waiting for for Ben
People want Spider-marriage over Ben.It's not even close
4)Multiple writers means varying quality and characterization

Doesn't matter if I hate it or not.I can't judge it as a standalone story or on quality because we haven't read it yet, but I can judge the premise, timing and what story beats we have seen which don't seem promising.

The sidelining at this time is itself insulting, We got it back for 2 years in which we had little content because of packed story and AMJ.Not even the first time they have used Ben for this purpose, e.i. sidelining the Spider-marriage.

I will buy the first 2-3 issues and then see if I want to purchase more, so I will give it a chance.And if you go on other platforms like Instagram you can see people aren't excited for it.Only Ben fans who are far outnumbered by Peter fans are, which good for them but doesn't change the fact most people aren't hyped for it.

I've addressed most of everything we have seen in the promos and made multiple points based on that whereas people defending Beyond have deflected saying every promo is lying.
I don't need to get new material, you need to get material of you own.
The only thing people defending this have said is
1)Ben is back
2)It'l surprise you and don't believe any of the promo

Whereas I myself have given multiple points(Replacing, sidelining marriage, poor "death", bad timing, Multiple writers) and it's all rooted in stuff we have seen.

If it's great, which I hope it is I'd be happy but I'm not gonna stay in denial and ignore every piece of promotion we have seen.

Let's wait for more solicits or info before discussing further

[bob.schoonover]

"Execution":-Read the post, I have pointed out why.I'll highlight some points for you again
1)We know Peter is gone by the second issue and then we immediately focus on Ben.
2)It's highly likely it's the U-foes or someone with no special bases in Spider-mythos, having such an important "death"/coma/being written out of the story.Such a death should be a part of a big story climax and/or by someone like Morlun
3)The timing:-It's gonna sideline the marriage/relationship most fans have been waiting for for Ben
People want Spider-marriage over Ben.It's not even close
4)Multiple writers means varying quality and characterization

Doesn't matter if I hate it or not.I can't judge it as a standalone story or on quality because we haven't read it yet, but I can judge the premise, timing and what story beats we have seen which don't seem promising.

The sidelining at this time is itself insulting, We got it back for 2 years in which we had little content because of packed story and AMJ.Not even the first time they have used Ben for this purpose, e.i. sidelining the Spider-marriage.

I will buy the first 2-3 issues and then see if I want to purchase more, so I will give it a chance.And if you go on other platforms like Instagram you can see people aren't excited for it.Only Ben fans who are far outnumbered by Peter fans are, which good for them but doesn't change the fact most people aren't hyped for it.

I've addressed most of everything we have seen in the promos and made multiple points based on that whereas people defending Beyond have deflected saying every promo is lying.
I don't need to get new material, you need to get material of you own.
The only thing people defending this have said is
1)Ben is back
2)It'l surprise you and don't believe any of the promo

Whereas I myself have given multiple points(Replacing, sidelining marriage, poor "death", bad timing, Multiple writers) and it's all rooted in stuff we have seen.

If it's great, which I hope it is I'd be happy but I'm not gonna stay in denial and ignore every piece of promotion we have seen.

Let's wait for more solicits or info before discussing further

What marriage? No, seriously, "sidelining the marriage" happened almost 15 years ago and the marriage has not been reinstated. MJ and Peter have been together and it's been a little rocky. They aren't even engaged, and while I believe the last two issues of Spencer's run will address OMD in some sense, that hardly means the story ends with the marriage, let alone them being on a better footing than before.

Poor "death" is also a pretty insane thing to put in your own column when we haven't seen the death (or had it confirmed, or proven it happens in Beyond, etc.). Not to mention we don't know the manner in which Peter is sidelined and how it relates to what has happened to him recently, nor do we know how the Beyond team will structure his inevitable, triumphant return.

Bad timing again suggests you know the ending to Spencer's run, which you do not; Beyond may in fact be the perfect follow up to whatever Spencer chooses to do (it also may not). That also presumes that Spider-man/Mephisto is not being sidelined for Beyond because of Mephisto-adjacent events over in Avengers (that is, Peter needs to be out of play for whatever Jason Aaron is planning) rather than something Zeb Wells, et al. really want to do.

Multiple writers is neither good nor bad. 52 was awesome. It's whether or not the story itself warrants the commitment (and none of us know the story).

What is actually happening is that most of us (a) see uncertainty or the unknown, (b) choose not to project overly much our opinions onto that uncertainty (and when we do, those projections are hope for a good and enjoyable story), and (c) are waiting until the story actually fails us to complain.

[ZeroBG82]

What is actually happening is that most of us (a) see uncertainty or the unknown, (b) choose not to project overly much our opinions onto that uncertainty (and when we do, those projections are hope for a good and enjoyable story), and (c) are waiting until the story actually fails us to complain.

Hear, hear.

Sometimes my favorite characters aren't in episodes of their TV shows because other characters get a little focus. Is that disrespectful? Is that insulting? When you have 60 years of stories to revisit, is having other characters get a chance to shine for 4-6 months such a cataclysmic apocalypse that you have to tear down other fans' interest and hype for a new story? Particularly when that story doesn't exist yet, and you're only attacking it on the grounds that it doesn't cater to your specific tastes. Comics are bigger than one fan!

And, oh no you say, six months without Peter is the end of the world! I've waited nearly 25 YEARS to get ONE good story with my favorite character. And may still be waiting when it's all over. Get some perspective.