Spider-Man Beyond

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

Spider-Geddon wrote it off in Ben by having Ben sacrifice his life one more time, this time for the good of others, and then being revived a final time by Inheritor cloning tech, which is said to be explicitly better than the Jackals, and the new body "being reset to factory settings." Which has so far been unmentioned as well, but certainly seems to imply that Ben is back to his usual self and that his body is no longer degenerating. That's it. Just one line to put the toys back in the box. This potentially accounts for the degeneration explanation, but does nothing for healing Ben's mind.

Spider-Geddon is an absolutely tepid event no one asked for and no one would have wanted if not for the fact it fixed both Ben and MC-2 Peter's death, but to its credit, the solve to Ben's madness is actually good (or at least humorable) on closer reading. I also looked at it the same way you did, that it was basically a lousy/weird one line explanation and that basically Otto just trumped Death's own prognostic of what happened.

But when I looked at the final issue from what someone said, what it actually implies is that Ben was fixed because NotMorbius' sibling absorbed all of the madness alongside his lifeforce. He keeps fighting like a lunatic and even the other Literal Whos comment he's pretty far gone. So it wasn't that Otto's method or the New U tech managed to undo it - Otto just brought Ben back, the madness was already removed because it was absorbed.

[Huntsman Spider]

Only official explanation(s) so far is/are what was given in Clone Conspiracy itself. That dying so many times (27?-ish) drove Ben mad and/or that the clone degeneration affecting his new bodies did the same. BR:SS posited that dying repeatedly broke Ben's soul, and that just one more death and resurrection would blacken it completely, which is at least implied to mean that he will become a homocidal sociopath. A fate he suffered in BR:SS #25 and which has never been mentioned since.

The clone degeneration driving one mad is the same explanation given for Kaine's villainy, as once it was cured in Spider-Island he was much more mentally stable. But then still later, during his Scarlet Spider run, the degeneration was revealed to still be present, just held back by The Other. Once Kaine lost the Other the degeneration returned, but he seems unaffected by it mentally thus far. So not sure if that explanation still flies in any event.

Spider-Geddon wrote it off in Ben by having Ben sacrifice his life one more time, this time for the good of others, and then being revived a final time by Inheritor cloning tech, which is said to be explicitly better than the Jackals, and the new body "being reset to factory settings." Which has so far been unmentioned as well, but certainly seems to imply that Ben is back to his usual self and that his body is no longer degenerating. That's it. Just one line to put the toys back in the box. This potentially accounts for the degeneration explanation, but does nothing for healing Ben's mind.

To be frank, I think there is a story there if anybody wants to tell it someday. I think you could do it easily if you wanted to: Jackal tinkered with Ben's genetic makeup when he revived him the first time (following his death in SM#75). And with each subsequent death and resurrection whatever flaw Jackal introduced got worse and worse. The "blackening" that Death saw wasn't just a metaphysical death of Ben's soul, but an actual literal corruption of his body and mind. Now, you could either make this a Jackal screw up, or you could make it his evil plan. Maybe he's over-writing Ben's genome in some sinister way Superior Scarlet Spider style? Either way, the death and rebirth in BR:SS#25 is the tipping point, at which point Ben's true self is essentially overwritten almost completely. But Ben breaks through during Spider-Geddon, makes his last heroic sacrifice, and the Inheritor tech simply fixes whatever the flaw was and returns Ben to 100% pure Parker DNA. Purges whatever filth snuck in there, as it were. That's my head-canon for now, anyhow. We'll see if Beyond chooses to address any of the BR:SS or Spider-Geddon developments at all.

That last paragraph sounds like it could work.

[ZeroBG82]

But when I looked at the final issue from what someone said, what it actually implies is that Ben was fixed because NotMorbius' sibling absorbed all of the madness alongside his lifeforce. He keeps fighting like a lunatic and even the other Literal Whos comment he's pretty far gone. So it wasn't that Otto's method or the New U tech managed to undo it - Otto just brought Ben back, the madness was already removed because it was absorbed.

Hmm. In retrospect, that could work. It's not perfect, but it's no worse than any other explanation. And it does sort of tie Ben's "redemption" into his sacrifice more directly. I applaud the effort.

[Huntsman Spider]

Spider-Geddon is an absolutely tepid event no one asked for and no one would have wanted if not for the fact it fixed both Ben and MC-2 Peter's death, but to its credit, the solve to Ben's madness is actually good (or at least humorable) on closer reading. I also looked at it the same way you did, that it was basically a lousy/weird one line explanation and that basically Otto just trumped Death's own prognostic of what happened.

But when I looked at the final issue from what someone said, what it actually implies is that Ben was fixed because NotMorbius' sibling absorbed all of the madness alongside his lifeforce. He keeps fighting like a lunatic and even the other Literal Whos comment he's pretty far gone. So it wasn't that Otto's method or the New U tech managed to undo it - Otto just brought Ben back, the madness was already removed because it was absorbed.

Hmm. In retrospect, that could work. It's not perfect, but it's no worse than any other explanation. And it does sort of tie Ben's "redemption" into his sacrifice more directly. I applaud the effort.

Yeah, that does make more sense.

[Spidey_62]

Spider-Geddon is an absolutely tepid event no one asked for and no one would have wanted if not for the fact it fixed both Ben and MC-2 Peter's death, but to its credit, the solve to Ben's madness is actually good (or at least humorable) on closer reading. I also looked at it the same way you did, that it was basically a lousy/weird one line explanation and that basically Otto just trumped Death's own prognostic of what happened.

But when I looked at the final issue from what someone said, what it actually implies is that Ben was fixed because NotMorbius' sibling absorbed all of the madness alongside his lifeforce. He keeps fighting like a lunatic and even the other Literal Whos comment he's pretty far gone. So it wasn't that Otto's method or the New U tech managed to undo it - Otto just brought Ben back, the madness was already removed because it was absorbed.

I feel like a lot of the things Marvel does lately on the Spidey front are tepid things nobody asked for, meanwhile the things people ask for they go about them in either the most convoluted silly ways of course-correcting or just ignore the elephants hanging out in the rooms entirely til someday somebody does something really silly again to restore a thing again. The Spidey comics are in a dreadful loop where they just keep repeating mistakes or do bold things that people don't respond well to that they end up having to always fix.

[Hypestyle]

what will be Ben's relationship, if any, to Jameson? Does Ben even know that, well, Jonah knows who Spider-Man is at this point? How is Jonah going to react, thinking at first that this is Peter?

[jda95]

Spider-Geddon is an absolutely tepid event no one asked for and no one would have wanted if not for the fact it fixed both Ben and MC-2 Peter's death, but to its credit, the solve to Ben's madness is actually good (or at least humorable) on closer reading. I also looked at it the same way you did, that it was basically a lousy/weird one line explanation and that basically Otto just trumped Death's own prognostic of what happened.

Basically the only memorable things from Spider-Geddon for me are introducing Insomniac Spidey and the Ben reset. I hope Marvel starts moving away from these hollow event retreads a la Civil War II that don't provide much impact.

[HypnoHustler]

Basically the only memorable things from Spider-Geddon for me are introducing Insomniac Spidey and the Ben reset. I hope Marvel starts moving away from these hollow event retreads a la Civil War II that don't provide much impact.

Yes. All these mega events are a lot of sound and fury signifying nothing (with apologies to the Bard).

[Spiderfan001]

Only official explanation(s) so far is/are what was given in Clone Conspiracy itself. That dying so many times (27?-ish) drove Ben mad and/or that the clone degeneration affecting his new bodies did the same. BR:SS posited that dying repeatedly broke Ben's soul, and that just one more death and resurrection would blacken it completely, which is at least implied to mean that he will become a homocidal sociopath. A fate he suffered in BR:SS #25 and which has never been mentioned since.

The clone degeneration driving one mad is the same explanation given for Kaine's villainy, as once it was cured in Spider-Island he was much more mentally stable. But then still later, during his Scarlet Spider run, the degeneration was revealed to still be present, just held back by The Other. Once Kaine lost the Other the degeneration returned, but he seems unaffected by it mentally thus far. So not sure if that explanation still flies in any event.

Spider-Geddon wrote it off in Ben by having Ben sacrifice his life one more time, this time for the good of others, and then being revived a final time by Inheritor cloning tech, which is said to be explicitly better than the Jackals, and the new body "being reset to factory settings." Which has so far been unmentioned as well, but certainly seems to imply that Ben is back to his usual self and that his body is no longer degenerating. That's it. Just one line to put the toys back in the box. This potentially accounts for the degeneration explanation, but does nothing for healing Ben's mind.

To be frank, I think there is a story there if anybody wants to tell it someday. I think you could do it easily if you wanted to: Jackal tinkered with Ben's genetic makeup when he revived him the first time (following his death in SM#75). And with each subsequent death and resurrection whatever flaw Jackal introduced got worse and worse. The "blackening" that Death saw wasn't just a metaphysical death of Ben's soul, but an actual literal corruption of his body and mind. Now, you could either make this a Jackal screw up, or you could make it his evil plan. Maybe he's over-writing Ben's genome in some sinister way Superior Scarlet Spider style? Either way, the death and rebirth in BR:SS#25 is the tipping point, at which point Ben's true self is essentially overwritten almost completely. But Ben breaks through during Spider-Geddon, makes his last heroic sacrifice, and the Inheritor tech simply fixes whatever the flaw was and returns Ben to 100% pure Parker DNA. Purges whatever filth snuck in there, as it were. That's my head-canon for now, anyhow. We'll see if Beyond chooses to address any of the BR:SS or Spider-Geddon developments at all.

Last para makes a ton of sense.I hope they atleast address it, give an explanation because it doesn't seem in character.

I just realized they might just use Ben being Jackal against Beyond, one way to take the trust out.Even if they do this, hopefully they do explain it wasn't his fault but the cloning stuff's even if the public thinks it was.

[Lukmendes]

Last para makes a ton of sense.I hope they atleast address it, give an explanation because it doesn't seem in character.

I just realized they might just use Ben being Jackal against Beyond, one way to take the trust out.Even if they do this, hopefully they do explain it wasn't his fault but the cloning stuff's even if the public thinks it was.

Considering Beyond made Janine leave jail, them using Jackal **** to blackmail him would be dumb since they already went for the trust route... Unless they use Jackal because the trust route isn't working, but we'll see.

[Spiderfan001]

Considering Beyond made Janine leave jail, them using Jackal **** to blackmail him would be dumb since they already went for the trust route... Unless they use Jackal because the trust route isn't working, but we'll see.

No, I meant people against Beyond(and Ben) could take them down by proving their "New and Improved Spider-man" really was the Jackal and did clone conspiracy.Maybe Ock, maybe Peter if they(Beyond and/or Ben) go to far.

[HypnoHustler]

No, I meant people against Beyond(and Ben) could take them down by proving their "New and Improved Spider-man" really was the Jackal and did clone conspiracy.Maybe Ock, maybe Peter if they(Beyond and/or Ben) go to far.

I really hope they don’t reintroduce any Ben/Jackal ****, unless it’s to retcon it (maybe say it was Spidercide like someone suggested).

[Spiderfan001]

I really hope they don’t reintroduce any Ben/Jackal ****, unless it’s to retcon it (maybe say it was Spidercide like someone suggested).

The degenaration thing works as well, I don't think they should say Ben did it.But the public believes he did, ofc there a million routes to go.We'll have to wait and see

[The Black Death]

No, I meant people against Beyond(and Ben) could take them down by proving their "New and Improved Spider-man" really was the Jackal and did clone conspiracy.Maybe Ock, maybe Peter if they(Beyond and/or Ben) go to far.

That would be very unnecessary and would only complicate the plot more in a forced way, if you want a good reason for all the things Ben did as the Jackal it would be because of his insanity, at that time Ben was not well mentally because of his deaths and the fact that he knew he was only a clone. Most likely Ben will rejoin Peter to fight Beyond, just like in the old days.

[Spiderfan001]

That would be very unnecessary and would only complicate the plot more in a forced way, if you want a good reason for all the things Ben did as the Jackal it would be because of his insanity, at that time Ben was not well mentally because of his deaths and the fact that he knew he was only a clone. Most likely Ben will rejoin Peter to fight Beyond, just like in the old days.

I agree, the reasoning should be that he wasn't mentally stable at the time.I'm just saying they can also use it as something to put beyond is Jeopardy.

Also one thing I want in Beyond is the Beyond team but also Ben to realize how difficult Peter's job really is.
I've been re-reading DC comics from the colony arc where Tim "dies" and I love how they mention going forward what Tim would have done different/better.This was f*cking Batman and Bat-fam saying all this, so I'm not saying Ben can't do what Peter can but maybe highlight how much crime Peter really stopped.How many people he really helped and not just fight criminials, and how even despite media/government being negative about Spidey people of NYC still have his back after all the years he spent helping them.
Superior never did that, expect the smart thing where Ock couldn't solve something in 8 minutes Peter could in seconds.There are so many kids he visits on a regular basis, that is something they should focus on.Have other heroes reflect how it's so much more dull w/out Spidey like DD.

Although what we will probably get is people loving Beyond, and everything being better w/ Spidey gone like superior........I will never understand why they keep going the "superior" or "new and improved" route w/ Peter's death.
Everyone's death from Cap to Wolverine to Iron man, etc. deaths are treated as big looses but Peter's are treated as a stepstone to something better.F*cking Nightwing to Ric got more respect than they give Peter's deaths.Because fans want to see how bad Peter was at his job and how good others can be.........

There are so many organic ways to Bring Ben in as Spider-man without going the new and improved route.Peter's mind isn't straight, he almost gets someone killed.He needs to get his peace of mind and leaves w/ MJ to attain that.He calls Ben and asks him to look over NYC.Boom, PeterMJ figuring their life out, heck we might even have him get some special spiritual training while were at it while Ben handles NYC as Spider-man.If you want Beyond then you can say Ben feels a bit overwhelmed, maybe because he's been out of the loop or because Beyond is creating more crime to deal w/ and he needs help and beyond approaches him.He's suspicious but Janine out of jail wins him over for the time being.Then we can go on w/ the stories we have to tell.

I just..... there are so many better ways to go about this Idea.Should probably save this and post it after the first 2 issues but screw it, if I called it and I called, and if they have an actual twist then I'm an idiot.

TLDR:-It's a stupid rant, just ignore it.I'd delete it but already wrote it down, and I want too see if I was right about how they deal w/ all this in Beyond or will they surprise.