"The DCAU SHOULD Have Been The Blueprint For The DCEU"

[Lightning Rider]

I listened to a recent podcast interview with Alan Burnett(who’s retried now) where even he felt this idea was a mistake and refused to accept the idea. Important to note that he didn’t work on JLU.

Edit: Here’s Burnett’s thoughts on this here: It’s around the 1:29 mark.

That is interesting.

[John Venus]

I have to agree that it was a terrible idea. It only worked because of Dwayne McDuffie. The episode mostly works because we got to see adult Terry, old Amanda Waller, Andrea Beaumont easter egg, the Ace scene and the final moment between Bruce and Terry with Terry's flight set to the rock version of the B:TAS. The episode works because of everything but what the main plot is about; Terry as Bruce's son.

[Frontier]

The thing with the DCAU is that they never had to worry about putting the toys back in the box. They could take great risks with Mister Freeze because they never had to worry about another writer coming in and wanting to use him. That approach created some great takes on those characters but some of them only ended up lasting a handful of episodes. They could mke Carter a crazy stalker because they never had to worry about Carter lasting for another writer.

Well, I mean, they should probably be worried about how they're presenting Hawkman to an impressionable young audience glued to the show.

[Thezmage]

Well, I mean, they should probably be worried about how they're presenting Hawkman to an impressionable young audience glued to the show.

Why? He was in two episodes, I doubt he made much of an impact on anybody. He served the purpose the episode needed him to.

[SecretWarrior]

Why? He was in two episodes, I doubt he made much of an impact on anybody. He served the purpose the episode needed him to.

He was also treated as confused and just needing psychological help due to alien tech exposure and then was redeemed by fighting Shadow Thief and Apokolips. . .

[Gaius]

I don't think people look at it that much as an example for Superman and Wonder Woman any more at least.

Well, some still seem to think Diana being arm candy for Bruce is a good thing so goes to show the damage still lingers of a bad adaptation.

[Ra-El]

He was also treated as confused and just needing psychological help due to alien tech exposure and then was redeemed by fighting Shadow Thief and Apokolips. . .

You mean when he show up in some background among dozens of other characters?

I really hope Black Adam treats the character well, so a new generation of fans can have a better perspective of the character.

[SecretWarrior]

You mean when he show up in some background among dozens of other characters?

I really hope Black Adam treats the character well, so a new generation of fans can have a better perspective of the character.

Carter was never a villain, just delusional for a reason even the other characters thought was justifiable under the circumstances-- Otherwise, they would have him committed or imprisoned. He never had ill-intent.

Also, Geoff Johns did pretty much the same thing in the comics and wrote the script/teleplay for that episode, but no one complains about his take.

[Dred]

Barry Allen and Hal Jordan didn't exist...not even in the past.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Unfortunately, there was likely no room in the Justice League to do a series of episodes focusing on Flash history. We get a single one off Flash episode that included Wally and they so happen decided not to make it about the very long history of The Flash. Same can be said for GL. It was all just team based stuff so why would Hal and Barry matter to whatever zany situation of the week popped up?

That was pretty much the pretext DC used throughout the late 80s, the 90s, and the first few years of the 2000s to bury the Silver Age. I do know that from the middle of the 2000s on, the pendulum swung hard in the other direction.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

...Maybe for Hal, and even then I'm not buying it, but certainly not the case for Barry. Wally's history with Barry is a constant piece of the comics for Wally's entire run. Part of the run has a published work talking about how great Barry is (which I like a lot!).

[Lightning Rider]

Carter was never a villain, just delusional for a reason even the other characters thought was justifiable under the circumstances-- Otherwise, they would have him committed or imprisoned. He never had ill-intent.

Also, Geoff Johns did pretty much the same thing in the comics and wrote the script/teleplay for that episode, but no one complains about his take.

He wasn't a villain, but I don't think many kids watched this misguided lovesick guy and went "woah, I wanna see more Hawkman!" That tragic romance stuff can be an aspect of his story but he's got so much else going for him. The barbarian aesthetic and no-nonsense attitude, the archeological adventure, the historical warrior memories, etc.

[SiegePerilous02]

Fair enough, I'm not really well-versed in John's pre-cartoon history outside of the basics like I am with WW but he was one of the more praised elements of the DCAU.

You should actually read up on John's comic appearances then. A lot of people will try to dismiss and downplay John's relevance and impact. The DCAU's main contribution to John was giving him a military background and making him the no nonsense character in the show. John's reluctance to have a secret identity and the aforementioned no nonsense attitude were true to the comics :

That wasn't really meant to be a knock on John, sorry if it came across that way. I actually like DCAU John as he was my first exposure to the character and first GL I followed in a narrative. I ended up liking Hal way more once I started with the actual GL comics, but I still think DC botched a golden opportunity to do more with John than they have until recently.

It's just an observation that even DCAU John has had criticisms among the character's fanbase as a representation. It's by no means unanimous (far from it) and not nearly as prevalent as Wonder Woman and Superman complaints, but they are there.

If the main criticisms are they swung and missed when it came to Wonder Woman and Hawkman and Batman had too many girls then I think overall the universe did pretty well.

Wonder Woman's kind of a BIG miss though. Even with Superman, it wasn't exactly a miss but we could have much better.

I think as a cartoon in itself, it's still a great action series that holds up. As a representation for a lot of these characters, it can be great for some, less so for others when we take off the nostalgia goggles.

He wasn't a villain, but I don't think many kids watched this misguided lovesick guy and went "woah, I wanna see more Hawkman!" That tragic romance stuff can be an aspect of his story but he's got so much else going for him. The barbarian aesthetic and no-nonsense attitude, the archeological adventure, the historical warrior memories, etc.

Yeah, we have a whole generation of people who either don't know Hawkman exists and that Hawkgirl is the only one, or that he sucks and Hawkgirl/GL is the main ship. I'm not especially attached to any of the Hawks, but I imagine it stings for a lot of his fans. I don't think any fans of a character would desire the outcome Hawkman got in the DCAU. It honestly would have been better if he was left out entirely.

[Frontier]

Why? He was in two episodes, I doubt he made much of an impact on anybody. He served the purpose the episode needed him to.

I mean, if you're using any major hero in a prominent way, you'd expect the creators to at least do a good job of selling the audience on the character.

Unfortunately, there was likely no room in the Justice League to do a series of episodes focusing on Flash history. We get a single one off Flash episode that included Wally and they so happen decided not to make it about the very long history of The Flash. Same can be said for GL. It was all just team based stuff so why would Hal and Barry matter to whatever zany situation of the week popped up?

Probably the most we've gotten with The Rogues in animation, oddly enough.

[Thezmage]

I mean, if you're using any major hero in a prominent way, you'd expect the creators to at least do a good job of selling the audience on the character.

Exactly, he wasn't being used in a prominent way so there was no reason to try and sell the character. Sometimes a character is just a minor character and not the focus of the story

[SecretWarrior]

He wasn't a villain, but I don't think many kids watched this misguided lovesick guy and went "woah, I wanna see more Hawkman!" That tragic romance stuff can be an aspect of his story but he's got so much else going for him. The barbarian aesthetic and no-nonsense attitude, the archeological adventure, the historical warrior memories, etc.

They wanted to highlight Shayera. I'm glad they didn't spend too much time on the characters who were extremely similar to the Big Seven, ie other GLs, Flashes, Hawkpeople, Amazons, Martians, etc. It would've taken away from them feeling special.

[Frontier]

Exactly, he wasn't being used in a prominent way so there was no reason to try and sell the character. Sometimes a character is just a minor character and not the focus of the story

Then why even bother including him?

They wanted to highlight Shayera. I'm glad they didn't spend too much time on the characters who were extremely similar to the Big Seven, ie other GLs, Flashes, Hawkpeople, Amazons, Martians, etc. It would've taken away from them feeling special.

Although YJ shows that you can, more or less, feature a lot of these characters together and still make them stand out depending on how you handle it.