"The DCAU SHOULD Have Been The Blueprint For The DCEU"

[SiegePerilous02]

Exactly, he wasn't being used in a prominent way so there was no reason to try and sell the character. Sometimes a character is just a minor character and not the focus of the story

He was a focus in some stories though. That's part of the problem for some people I imagine.

Sometimes no appearances are better than bad appearances. I certainly would have preferred if Ares and Cheetah never showed up in the show vs. what we got from them when they showed up.

They wanted to highlight Shayera. I'm glad they didn't spend too much time on the characters who were extremely similar to the Big Seven, ie other GLs, Flashes, Hawkpeople, Amazons, Martians, etc. It would've taken away from them feeling special.

Not focusing on the expanded casts because there is little time to do so is fair and expected. Doing dumb things with them when they show up while still treating them as minor characters is another.

I wouldn't mind a lack of focus on the Amazons since this isn't a WW centric show. But when they showed up we have them banish Diana for bringing men to the island to save their sorry asses, along with the entire Contest being skipped over, and Hades being Diana's father. No thank you to any of that.

Katar/Carter fans would probably prefer if the focusing on Shayera didn't come at the expense of Hawkman

[Gaius]

He was a focus in some stories though. That's part of the problem for some people I imagine.

Sometimes no appearances are better than bad appearances. I certainly would have preferred if Ares and Cheetah never showed up in the show vs. what we got from them when they showed up.

Swap Bruce and Diana's roles in that episode with Circe and it goes from shit to great.

[I'm a Fish]

Didn’t Batman: The Brave and the Bold do a good job of accurately portraying the characters despite most of them being in minor rolls or as one-offs?

I haven’t seen every episode but the ones I have seen did a good job, I think.

[Frontier]

Didn’t Batman: The Brave and the Bold do a good job of accurately portraying the characters despite most of them being in minor rolls or as one-offs?

I haven’t seen every episode but the ones I have seen did a good job, I think.

Brave and the Bold was a Silver Age send-up and team-up show that managed to touch on practically the entirety of the DCU in one way or another.

It's an interesting contrast with JLU.

[Primal Slayer]

100%, apart from some poor adaptions in the universe it gave them a great jumping off point. Nice and streamlined, they could've built to an invasion, they had Batman v Superman.

[Frontier]

DCAU had a solid take on Aquaman but I'm not big on PAD's Aquaman so it would never be my ideal take.

[Ra-El]

He was a focus in some stories though. That's part of the problem for some people I imagine.

Sometimes no appearances are better than bad appearances. I certainly would have preferred if Ares and Cheetah never showed up in the show vs. what we got from them when they showed up.

That's my point too. They didn't have to use Hawkman, they didn't needed too. The 9 year olds getting their first introduction to the DCU weren't aware of the character to most of us, Shayera was the whole thing. If they had to bring in some character to help highlight the Shayera/Stewart pairing they could, and should just come up with some new character, instead they chose to not only bring in Hawkman, but also shit all over his background.

Villain or no villain, the thing is, to me personally, as a kid, Hawkman was an real lame character that I only come to appreciate in my twenties for reasons completely unrelated to the DCAU. But differently from me, most people who watched that shows never got into comics, so to them Hawkman is a lame character.

And I dare anyone to say they saw Carter as a misguided tragic hero when they watched the show as a kid. At best people didn't care for the character either way, at worst they disliked him for trying to get between Hawkgirl and Green Lantern.

[Gaius]

DCAU had a solid take on Aquaman but I'm not big on PAD's Aquaman so it would never be my ideal take.

Honestly, I wasn't aware of "Aquaman is lame" jokes until years later, so my takeaway from DCAU Aquaman as a kid whenever I caught an episode "What a dick. No wonder no one likes you".

[Frontier]

That's my point too. They didn't have to use Hawkman, they didn't needed too. The 9 year olds getting their first introduction to the DCU weren't aware of the character to most of us, Shayera was the whole thing. If they had to bring in some character to help highlight the Shayera/Stewart pairing they could, and should just come up with some new character, instead they chose to not only bring in Hawkman, but also shit all over his background.

Villain or no villain, the thing is, to me personally, as a kid, Hawkman was an real lame character that I only come to appreciate in my twenties for reasons completely unrelated to the DCAU. But differently from me, most people who watched that shows never got into comics, so to them Hawkman is a lame character.

And I dare anyone to say they saw Carter as a misguided tragic hero when they watched that show as a kid. At best people didn't care for the character either way, at worst they disliked him for trying to get between Hawkgirl and Green Lantern.

I think I read somewhere that the only reason they included him was because the season was a post-script season because they thought they'd be done after the Cadmus arc and they realized they hadn't included Hawkman yet.

Hro Talak was supposed to be Katar Hol but DC wouldn't let them make him such an overt villain which is why the name was re-arranged. Which probably shows how much of a priority Hawkman was to the creators.

[SecretWarrior]

And I dare anyone to say they saw Carter as a misguided tragic hero when they watched that show as a kid.

That's essentially how I saw him, and I was around 13 at the time, since that's how he was written. Your subjective experience isn't everyone's.

[SecretWarrior]

I think I read somewhere that the only reason they included him was because the season was a post-script season because they thought they'd be done after the Cadmus arc and they realized they hadn't included Hawkman yet.

Hro Talak was supposed to be Katar Hol but DC wouldn't let them make him such an overt villain which is why the name was re-arranged. Which probably shows how much of a priority Hawkman was to the creators.

They already had the Hawkperson they wanted. While McDuffie was doing JLU, he brought in comics writers to port their work into the DCAU, like how Gail Simone wrote one of the Green Arrow/Black Canary episodes. The creators preferred the alien origin for Hawkgirl, but then Johns did his thing with Kendra not knowing who Carter was, which I guess they found interesting. Johns then came in an ported his take. They got a third season that they weren't expecting to get, so they just threw together ideas they found interesting before doing their real good bye. Ancient History ended up adding a new wrinkle to the John/Shayera dynamic, with John deciding to make his own fate instead of giving up free will.

[Ra-El]

That's essentially how I saw him, and I was around 13 at the time, since that's how he was written. Your subjective experience isn't everyone's.

I watched when I was 10, maybe it was the age difference, or you just are more mature. And you are the first person to anything positive to say about Hawkman in the JL that I ever knew.

[SecretWarrior]

I watched when I was 10, maybe it was the age difference, or you just are more mature. And you are the first person to anything positive to say about Hawkman in the JL that I ever knew.

He was a complex supporting character. He wasn't as interesting to me as the Question, Vigilante, Captain Atom, Captain Marvel, or Shining Knight, but he was earnest and noble. I like how they essentially Marvel-ized the psychologies of the DCU heroes and didn't write them as perfect or the same just to get people to like a character who didn't even serve the overall narrative. There are people who like Hawkman, but I've never met anyone who thought he was the best DC hero or the best thing to come out of DC, so I don't mind that he was more than a generic brute, like he's often written as for comedic purposes. They didn't think up an angle for conservative, military Doc Savage with wings, but they did a lot of interesting things with their universe overall. People can say they want a story about Hawkman that puts him on some pedestal, but I don't see people saying there's some specific Hawkman story they wish was adapted in some fashion. I don't see folks saying how that story would serve the overall universe or the arcs they were working on.

[Jabare]

Didn’t Batman: The Brave and the Bold do a good job of accurately portraying the characters despite most of them being in minor rolls or as one-offs?

I haven’t seen every episode but the ones I have seen did a good job, I think.

I mean it was a fun show. Depends on how nitpicky you want to be about things. I'd say Young Justice tried a little harder to be stats accurate. (don't get me started on Sportsmaster or Shiva taking out Orm, but generally speaking)

[SecretWarrior]

Not focusing on the expanded casts because there is little time to do so is fair and expected. Doing dumb things with them when they show up while still treating them as minor characters is another.

I wouldn't mind a lack of focus on the Amazons since this isn't a WW centric show. But when they showed up we have them banish Diana for bringing men to the island to save their sorry asses, along with the entire Contest being skipped over, and Hades being Diana's father. No thank you to any of that.

Katar/Carter fans would probably prefer if the focusing on Shayera didn't come at the expense of Hawkman

They found interesting ways to give these characters internal conflicts.

Take away WW's conflict with her culture to adhere to her strong personal values, take away her culture shock stemming from her home life, take away her surprise father and lies about her upbringing, and what do you have left? What internal conflict should she have had that wasn't already covered by Superman or Martian Manhunter? If the answer is to make her a perfect paragon, then I think that would have made her the most boring character on the show.

Hawkgirl gets praise, even though she was radically shifted from any comics version, had less mythology and fewer villains referenced, had less screen time, and had fewer episodes centered on her, because the creators gave her interesting internal and external conflicts. She clearly wasn't perfect, and that spoke to people. I can only imagine what the reaction would be if Wonder Woman got her storyline.