It’s funny that so many people think Spider-Man works best as a teen...

[mathew101281]

When most of his most well known stories feature him as an adult.

[Mister Mets]

Are you sure?

I'm going to look at a list of best Spider-Man stories. This is CBR, so the CBR Top 50 works. And the list where Peter Parker in high school or an undergrad dating Gwen Stacy includes...

• The Crime Master- Amazing Spider-Man #26-27
• The End of Spider-Man- Amazing Spider-Man #18-19
• The Horns of the Rhino- Amazing Spider-Man #41-43
• Doc Ock Wins- Amazing Spider-Man #53-56
• Venom- Ultimate Spider-Man #33-39
• The Spider or the Man- Amazing Spider-Man #100-102
• Power and Responsibility- Ultimate Spider-Man #1-7
• Learning Curve- Ultimate Spider-Man #8-12
• Confessions- Ultimate Spider-Man #13
• Death of Spider-Man- Ultimate Spider-Man #156-160
• The Sinister Six- Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1
• The Death of Captain Stacy- Amazing Spider-Man #88-90
• Harry Osborn is on Drugs- Amazing Spider-Man #96-98
• The Goblin Unmasked- Amazing Spider-Man #39-40
• Spider-Man No More!- Amazing Spider-Man #50-52
• Spider-Man!- Amazing Fantasy #15
• The Night Gwen Stacy Died- Amazing Spider-Man #121-122
• The Master Planner Saga- Amazing Spider-Man #31-33

The list includes Spider-Man/ Human Torch and Spider-Man: Blue, in which the majority is set when Peter is a teen. That's 40% of fans' favorite stories, but it's less than 40% of published Spider-Man comics.

There's some good material that may be too obscure for typical readers (Busiek's Untold Tales, Joe Kelly/ Bart Sears' prom story, Lee Weeks' Captain Stacy mini-series) plus Spider-Man is a high school in many media appearances, including the MCU films.

You can certainly make an argument that central to Spider-Man's appeal is that we have seen him grow. He's now as old as Batman (at least the youngish Batman of Year One, or the Matt Reeves film) but he did not emerge fully formed. We've seen him grow into the guy who will overcome the Juggernaut through sheer perseverance, climb out of a grave with his morality intact, push some of his enemies to become better people, or lead the Spider-Men of multiple dimensions.

[Kevinroc]

Are you sure?

I'm going to look at a list of best Spider-Man stories. This is CBR, so the CBR Top 50 works. And the list where Peter Parker in high school or an undergrad dating Gwen Stacy includes...

• The Crime Master- Amazing Spider-Man #26-27
• The End of Spider-Man- Amazing Spider-Man #18-19
• The Horns of the Rhino- Amazing Spider-Man #41-43
• Doc Ock Wins- Amazing Spider-Man #53-56
• Venom- Ultimate Spider-Man #33-39
• The Spider or the Man- Amazing Spider-Man #100-102
• Power and Responsibility- Ultimate Spider-Man #1-7
• Learning Curve- Ultimate Spider-Man #8-12
• Confessions- Ultimate Spider-Man #13
• Death of Spider-Man- Ultimate Spider-Man #156-160
• The Sinister Six- Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1
• The Death of Captain Stacy- Amazing Spider-Man #88-90
• Harry Osborn is on Drugs- Amazing Spider-Man #96-98
• The Goblin Unmasked- Amazing Spider-Man #39-40
• Spider-Man No More!- Amazing Spider-Man #50-52
• Spider-Man!- Amazing Fantasy #15
• The Night Gwen Stacy Died- Amazing Spider-Man #121-122
• The Master Planner Saga- Amazing Spider-Man #31-33

The list includes Spider-Man/ Human Torch and Spider-Man: Blue, in which the majority is set when Peter is a teen. That's 40% of fans' favorite stories, but it's less than 40% of published Spider-Man comics.

There's some good material that may be too obscure for typical readers (Busiek's Untold Tales, Joe Kelly/ Bart Sears' prom story, Lee Weeks' Captain Stacy mini-series) plus Spider-Man is a high school in many media appearances, including the MCU films.

You can certainly make an argument that central to Spider-Man's appeal is that we have seen him grow. He's now as old as Batman (at least the youngish Batman of Year One, or the Matt Reeves film) but he did not emerge fully formed. We've seen him grow into the guy who will overcome the Juggernaut through sheer perseverance, climb out of a grave with his morality intact, push some of his enemies to become better people, or lead the Spider-Men of multiple dimensions.

I think Peter works best as a College Student, which is certainly older than the High School push that Marvel has done. The fact is that Peter's status as a High School student are not as important as Marvel claims they are.

Being a College Student means being an adult. With more responsibilities than a High School student.

[Frontier]

Are you sure?

I'm going to look at a list of best Spider-Man stories. This is CBR, so the CBR Top 50 works. And the list where Peter Parker in high school or an undergrad dating Gwen Stacy includes...

• The Crime Master- Amazing Spider-Man #26-27
• The End of Spider-Man- Amazing Spider-Man #18-19
• The Horns of the Rhino- Amazing Spider-Man #41-43
• Doc Ock Wins- Amazing Spider-Man #53-56
• Venom- Ultimate Spider-Man #33-39
• The Spider or the Man- Amazing Spider-Man #100-102
• Power and Responsibility- Ultimate Spider-Man #1-7
• Learning Curve- Ultimate Spider-Man #8-12
• Confessions- Ultimate Spider-Man #13
• Death of Spider-Man- Ultimate Spider-Man #156-160
• The Sinister Six- Amazing Spider-Man Annual #1
• The Death of Captain Stacy- Amazing Spider-Man #88-90
• Harry Osborn is on Drugs- Amazing Spider-Man #96-98
• The Goblin Unmasked- Amazing Spider-Man #39-40
• Spider-Man No More!- Amazing Spider-Man #50-52
• Spider-Man!- Amazing Fantasy #15
• The Night Gwen Stacy Died- Amazing Spider-Man #121-122
• The Master Planner Saga- Amazing Spider-Man #31-33

The list includes Spider-Man/ Human Torch and Spider-Man: Blue, in which the majority is set when Peter is a teen. That's 40% of fans' favorite stories, but it's less than 40% of published Spider-Man comics.

There's some good material that may be too obscure for typical readers (Busiek's Untold Tales, Joe Kelly/ Bart Sears' prom story, Lee Weeks' Captain Stacy mini-series) plus Spider-Man is a high school in many media appearances, including the MCU films.

You can certainly make an argument that central to Spider-Man's appeal is that we have seen him grow. He's now as old as Batman (at least the youngish Batman of Year One, or the Matt Reeves film) but he did not emerge fully formed. We've seen him grow into the guy who will overcome the Juggernaut through sheer perseverance, climb out of a grave with his morality intact, push some of his enemies to become better people, or lead the Spider-Men of multiple dimensions.

I mean, some of those Ultimate arcs you cite are just stuff that's reflective of stuff he went through in college.

And I view him being in college as being an "adult" compared to putting him in high school.

[Kanos]

I love watching the characters develop. Look how far Peter has come. School, college, marriage to MJ. Each era is important in its own way, they all work well.

[TinkerSpider]

When most of his most well known stories feature him as an adult.

Here's the problem with Spider-Man as I see it:

His origin story is a coming of age tale.

Peter is a brash teen, he lets his young ego get in his way, he suffers a tragedy and he learns "with great power there must also come great responsibility."

Then his early issues follow the beats of a coming of age story: he is torn between making his parental figure proud or rebelling and engaging in behavior that the parental figure may see as dangerous, but is part of his learning curve (and in Peter's case, the danger is mitigated by his power and his responsibility). He goes through all the firsts: first crush, first kiss, first real job, high school graduation, first serious girlfriend, first breakup, first death of a mentor, first serious betrayal, moving out of his childhood home into his own place for the first time, going to college, living with a roommate for the first time, being an independent young adult.

Coming of age is a powerful, resonant story - just look at all the shelves of YA novels, or why Catcher in the Rye is still considered relevant, or why the CW stays on the air. A New Hope is a classic coming of age story for Luke Skywalker. So IMO it makes perfect sense for why media outside comics (TV series, the films, etc) focus on the coming of age years (even ITSV and the Playstation game are coming of age: but for Miles). And it makes sense why those firsts are on the list of best Spider-Man stories because, after all, they are the first.

But.

Characters can only come of age once. Humans don't age backwards. Nor do humans remain locked in statis. Even if Marvel had kept Peter in high school, all the firsts would eventually NOT be firsts. Even if Marvel set Peter's age at perpetually fifteen, he would in essence become an adult just because he had seen and done so much. I like to call this the Ultimate Spider-Man paradox - and although the main reason was to introduce Miles Morales, Ultimate Peter was, in fact, killed off because there is only so much one can do with a fifteen-year-old once all the firsts are exhausted (and when Ultimate Peter was brought back, he was given quite the adult happy ending of literally driving off into the sunset with Mary Jane). And look at Miles - he was introduced at age 13. But he's now around the age of 18/19 because, again, there are only so many believable firsts for a 13-year-old to explore and aging him up allows him to take part in more adult stories and relationships.

Classic Peter - from 1962 to 2007 - had a fairly linear progression in which he came of age, became a young adult and then an adult in his mid-twenties. And you can keep a character in their mid-twenties believably for ad infinitum, which is what I feel Marvel should have done; most people, even in their eighties, will tell you they still feel 25 mentally no matter their physical age. But for some reason, Marvel editorial decided Peter Parker needed to be forced back into behaving like a coming of age character even though he had since long come of age; even though all those "first" stories still exist and can read anytime; even though it's impossible for any of us to go back and experience "firsts" for the first time a second time. And I feel that's part of cognitive dissonance and disconnect some of the audience has been feeling ever since OMD.

[marhawkman]

I would put MC2 as one of the best Spider-man stories.... even if he's Peter Parker Police lab tech for most of it.

[PCN24454]

Not to mention most of his Classic Rogues (aka the only villains people seem to care about) debuted during his High School years.

[Malachi]

Here's the problem with Spider-Man as I see it:

His origin story is a coming of age tale.

Peter is a brash teen, he lets his young ego get in his way, he suffers a tragedy and he learns "with great power there must also come great responsibility."

Then his early issues follow the beats of a coming of age story: he is torn between making his parental figure proud or rebelling and engaging in behavior that the parental figure may see as dangerous, but is part of his learning curve (and in Peter's case, the danger is mitigated by his power and his responsibility). He goes through all the firsts: first crush, first kiss, first real job, high school graduation, first serious girlfriend, first breakup, first death of a mentor, first serious betrayal, moving out of his childhood home into his own place for the first time, going to college, living with a roommate for the first time, being an independent young adult.

Coming of age is a powerful, resonant story - just look at all the shelves of YA novels, or why Catcher in the Rye is still considered relevant, or why the CW stays on the air. A New Hope is a classic coming of age story for Luke Skywalker. So IMO it makes perfect sense for why media outside comics (TV series, the films, etc) focus on the coming of age years (even ITSV and the Playstation game are coming of age: but for Miles). And it makes sense why those firsts are on the list of best Spider-Man stories because, after all, they are the first.

But.

Characters can only come of age once. Humans don't age backwards. Nor do humans remain locked in statis. Even if Marvel had kept Peter in high school, all the firsts would eventually NOT be firsts. Even if Marvel set Peter's age at perpetually fifteen, he would in essence become an adult just because he had seen and done so much. I like to call this the Ultimate Spider-Man paradox - and although the main reason was to introduce Miles Morales, Ultimate Peter was, in fact, killed off because there is only so much one can do with a fifteen-year-old once all the firsts are exhausted (and when Ultimate Peter was brought back, he was given quite the adult happy ending of literally driving off into the sunset with Mary Jane). And look at Miles - he was introduced at age 13. But he's now around the age of 18/19 because, again, there are only so many believable firsts for a 13-year-old to explore and aging him up allows him to take part in more adult stories and relationships.

Classic Peter - from 1962 to 2007 - had a fairly linear progression in which he came of age, became a young adult and then an adult in his mid-twenties. And you can keep a character in their mid-twenties believably for ad infinitum, which is what I feel Marvel should have done; most people, even in their eighties, will tell you they still feel 25 mentally no matter their physical age. But for some reason, Marvel editorial decided Peter Parker needed to be forced back into behaving like a coming of age character even though he had since long come of age; even though all those "first" stories still exist and can read anytime; even though it's impossible for any of us to go back and experience "firsts" for the first time a second time. And I feel that's part of cognitive dissonance and disconnect some of the audience has been feeling ever since OMD.

Yes and the different medias all cycle through these things and eventually reset, gets cancelled or just end. But comics don’t have that luxury. Or more on the money: Marvel has opted out of the hard reboot business. Even though you can recycle stories you can’t repeat these firsts. Not when your readership is longtime readers. So marvel gets stuck between a rock and a hard place, both their own creations. They have to accept that fans are not rejuvenating. Write for what you got and not what you think you should have. Unless comics are simply an incubator for potential movie ideas. Well then you have spider-verse. Where only the concept of different spider-people where kept.

[federicodettofred]

I think the best Spider-Man dynamics are with Peter at University and working at the Daily Bugle (like the first half of Spencer's run).
High School Peter is ok, but it's been done to death.

[Lee]

I think Peter works best as a College Student, which is certainly older than the High School push that Marvel has done. The fact is that Peter's status as a High School student are not as important as Marvel claims they are.

Being a College Student means being an adult. With more responsibilities than a High School student.

He's still a teenager (which is what this thread is about) in his first two years of college.

A 20 year old Peter Parker is no longer a teenager, but still not old enough to legally drink alcohol in the US.

A teenager in college usually only has one foot in the adult world.

[PCN24454]

I think the best Spider-Man dynamics are with Peter at University and working at the Daily Bugle (like the first half of Spencer's run).
High School Peter is ok, but it's been done to death.

Slaving at the Daily Bugle hasn’t been done to death?

[TinkerSpider]

Slaving at the Daily Bugle hasn’t been done to death?

Peter can have an infinite number of jobs as an adult.

He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief. By the time he worries about who to ask to his fifth prom or is excited about his tenth summer break vacation, the jig is pretty much up.

[Lee]

Peter can have an infinite number of jobs as an adult.

He can only be in high school for so long before it breaks suspension of disbelief. By the time he worries about who to ask to his fifth prom or is excited about his tenth summer break vacation, the jig is pretty much up.

I don't think this matters. The suspension of disbelief is already being tested when the reader is told that the stories in the Steve Ditko run happened in the 21st century.

Only long-term readers will be aware that Peter has had so many summer breaks. As it is now, you can count all the Christmases the Marvel Universe has had and see how it breaks the timeline.

It's the "Why is Ash Ketchum still 10 years old in Pokémon?" argument. Only the hardcore long-term viewers outside of the target audience will care enough to ask the question. New viewers won't have experienced all of the decades of previous adventures to notice the inconsistency.

By and large, I don't think the general audience thinks of Spider-Man any differently than they do Bart Simpson, Donald Duck or James Bond. There's the understanding that the characters are timeless.

[Matt Rat]

New viewers won't have experienced all of the decades of previous adventures to notice the inconsistency

I love this fantasy argument people conjure up about 'new viewers', they always assume they won't go back and research/watch the older/better seasons, which are always widely available. A great deal of older Pokemon seasons I know for a fact are reran on UK television.

For the record, I was always of the opinion Ash's story came to a natural end in Pokemon: The Power of One, just as Peter's story came arguably to it's natural end with MC2.