Is X-Men dangerously playing "Gods" ?

[king of hybrids]

Considering the Dune influences, surely the follies of Paul, Alia and Leto Atreides are a better comparison?

[Knightmare]

I don´t think Hickman is writting them as literal Gods but an argument can be made that he´s taking inspiration from Greek myths and other stories to write HoX/PoX and Krakoa and also the antagonistic relationship between Moira and Destiny.

Moria or the Moiras(Latin Parca, plural Parcae) in Greek and Roman mythology, any of three goddesses who determined human destinies, and in particular the span of a person's life and his allotment of misery and suffering. They also helped the Greek Gods and demi-Gods to acomplish their objectives. They are related to death but also human and the Gods destiny. Even the gods feared the Moirae. Zeus also was subject to their power.

Which leads us to Irene Adler, while Moira knows advance knowledge from her experiences during her lives, she´s not a pre-cognitive mutant, she doesn´t have acess to what will be the fate of mutantkind, that would be Destiny or Fate in Greek mythology meant was the end of everybody, not even the gods could avoid destiny and that´s why everybody feared it.

In the PoX story it looks like the Fate no even the "Gods" mutant/super-human can avoid is the end of both mutantkind, who always losses and humanity after it was absorbed by the Phalanx, Moira is using her experiences to tackle or change this fate both for mutants and herself and also humanity, because that was her task given to her by the librarian and a redeemed Nimrod but we don´t know if this is all she wants to do or has other objectives as well while Irene very much also handed Moira the mission of protecting mutantkind to protect herself from her and Irene is the one who holds the fore knowledge of mutants and humans.

I just thought the significance of the theme was interesting.

When it comes to Krakoa habitants, I believe most of them just want to be left alone and live their life in peace but there´s no question their unity will bring all sorts of adversaries like
Onslaught, Orchis, Xeno, Phalanx,Moira and Destiny plans, etc because they also will need to learn the responsibility that comes with their powers and their actions so they can become active authors of their destiny.

Well said, I didn't look at the situation like that.

[PeterParked]

That would only work for me if they, Krakoa and their government, left to that planet and independently put themselves on the galactic stage - instead they have presence on Earth and Mars, and have claimed representative power (dominion if you want to take it to its logical conclusion) over the solar system. I'm not jumping to the worst conclusions, I don't expect Storm to start making dictates about Earth or "space lanes" or something like that (I hope not), but as far as I'm concerned, this is bad enough on its own.

They actually didn’t do anything wrong or weird, even in real life right now, there is more than one country planning to reach Mars and make habitable bases there, and you don’t hear anyone protesting about it, because nobody owns Mars. And to reverse your point, if there was a book/storyline about Avengers, or some government-mandated super team terraforming Mars, I doubt anyone would even think to say “well, they should ask Europe, or India if they agree before doing it”, let alone “they should ask mutants what they think about it before doing it”. Also, do you think that if USA should land and colonize Mars they should leve Hearth at the same time?

As far as claiming to represent something “logical conclusion” being “having dominion over” it’s not logical at all, all the contrary. Logic is based on predictability, historic data, past behavior, not on personal bias about a comics run; nothing we know about X-Men, Storm and so on suggests at all they want to dominate anyone. They established their land with a diplomatic action (sovereignty in exchange for useful drugs for free), not with violence; despite all their power they didn’t declare any war against the countries that refuted their offer and discriminate, torture, imprison and kill mutants; even when they tried to assassinate their leaders during a diplomatic meeting they didn’t escalate; not even when their leader was killed by an organization they know is founded also by mutant-phobic government they did escalate things.

[Blind Target]

So the life saving drugs, the saving the planet from Arrako invasion and then transporting the Arrakis to Mars were all things that just happened to benefit the Earth and Krakoa?

The drugs are not a "gift" to mankind(its a trojan horse), they are a way to own them. Thats not altruism. Letting the Arakkii roam free to cause trouble, would lead to a direct confrontation with humans, which is not something they can afford, because they always lose, again and again, using that strategy. They are using soft power, as opposed to hard power, thats the strategy. Everything that they are doing is following a plan, its not a coincidence, it doesn't just happen. The Arakkii merely accelerated their plans for Mars.

I mean Orchis clearly attacked first so…yes? To clarify, building Mother Mold would be considered an attack, like North Korea building nukes,

I disagree, just like, North Korea building nukes is not an attack on anyone, except super powers who "feel" threatend, now that they are not the only ones with nukes and therefore can't go around bullying other countries.

that comes with penalties even if they don’t fire the nukes.

Theres only one country that has used nukes on another country and it has recieved no penalties. But a country building nukes for self defense, that needs to penalized. Merely having nukes, thats an attack, but apparently, literally attacking another country with nukes, thats not penalized.

The only reason North Korea has not being invaded by the United States, is precisely because they have nukes. Its a deterrent, a form of self defense. And it has always being used that way, they have never used it on anyone, but by merely existing, you want to "spin" that around and say they are attacking. And just to be clear, i'm not pro North Korea.

The way i see it, nukes made the United States into a superpower. Using hard power, the rules don't apply to them, they can do whatever they want with impunity, they can invade any country they want as if they owned them, unless that country has a deterrent.

The krakoan drugs has essentially, made Krakoa into the only superpower. Using soft power, they own everyone. The rules don't apply to them, they can do whatever they want with impunity, except kill humans, because mutants are born from humans, even that has an ulterior motive. They have built everything on a house of cards, the question is, how long will Krakoa keep monopoly over this superpower, and what will they do to keep monopolizing it. Like how the United States uses their power and influence to portray itself as benevolent, altruistic, without ulterior motives, while portraying countries who build nukes, as the same thing as attacking, while turning a blind eye to Israel which also build nukes, and if you criticize Israel for what they to do Palestinians, you are antisemitic. Thats what a superpower does.

[Zelena]

Gods don't fear death...and they certainly don't turn into whining, petulant manchildren when they can't get thier hammers up anymore.

There was no stake… that was my point. No courage because no fear of death for immortal beings.

[gonnagiveittoya]

The "mutants are gods" takes seems to be at odds with the idea that "mutants are oppressed and powerless against humans" takes often made by the exact same people. If they're gods why are they so afraid of robots?

[Frobisher]

The "mutants are gods" takes seems to be at odds with the idea that "mutants are oppressed and powerless against humans" takes often made by the exact same people. If they're gods why are they so afraid of robots?

For the same reason as why robots are so afraid of pirates and ninjas.

[Metro]

Gods don't fear death...and they certainly don't turn into whining, petulant manchildren when they can't get thier hammers up anymore.

Well mutants have been petulant and whiney for years now, and all they've done is out of fear for death, so they definitely aren't Gods.

"Warrior Using Basic Tactics"----->"Run Away From The Big Meanie"

It's almost some people have basic instincts and know when to back off and come up with a new plan of attack instead dying just to look cool.

[Castle]

No they are not paying god, however mutant kind and human kind living in perfect harmony has always been a very complex issue.

I am just surprised Krakoa is the success it has been for mutant kind...mostly. I still think it will get blown up in their faces again though.

What ever happened to Genosha?

[Devaishwarya]

What's funny here?
Because you're comparing a warrior using basic tactics to a woman who basically participating in assisted suicide.
I mean I guess it is funny if you post panels out of context and ignore the wider stories around it, but then again when it comes to non X characters that's not exactly new on this board

Funny (in the ha-ha lol way) you should say that...because that's exactly what the detractors have been doing with the Mutants in this era since it started...as underscored by PeterParked's perfect post previously.

[Devaishwarya]

Even the most glaring and secretive abuse of power by one Mutant ie Beast and the Terre Verde situation...that was reversed and the Verdeans offered recompense.
Why?
If the QC were so hell-bent on taking over the world by infiltrating and subverting governments then that would have been the perfect opportunity to continue what Beast had started. Why reverse it? Why make amends to Terre Verde?

The actions and words of ONE does not speak for the intent of ALL.

[JB]

What's funny here?
Because you're comparing a warrior using basic tactics to a woman who basically participating in assisted suicide.
I mean I guess it is funny if you post panels out of context and ignore the wider stories around it, but then again when it comes to non X characters that's not exactly new on this board

You love it here. You know it, I know it. *cheers*

[Hizashi]

I get what you're saying and I think that reaction is to be expected for some readers. The writers knew they were doing something "controversial" and frankly, the mutants are being discussed at a higher level than they have in a long time and I'm here for it.

Thanks, I get what you're saying. I've never said anyone has to agree with me, or argued that my view is the only valid one, and I'm on record as saying it's good for those who are enjoying this era - but I'm tired of these "controversial" moments, of the next "feat", of going to "higher levels". I just want good character work and some consistency.

The point here is if mutants on Krakoa wanna start proclaiming themselves as gods I'm gonna compare them to a god, and so far in comparison they're coming up short.

Well, okay, but this isn't gonna win you any support for your argument. I don't like the attitude that some of Krakoa's leaders have, I find Xavier and Magneto a bit insufferable, but it should be judged on its own merits and not on the Thor-Scale or whatever.

Yea, I’d say that humanity should probably be more weary about an entire sect of people declaring themselves to be gods especially since that points towards those declaring it to have gained a god complex which is an exceptionally slippery slope. Compare that to a god who was sent to Earth to learn the lesson of humility and came to become its protector as a result, I’d say the actual god is someone humanity should be less worried about between the two.

Okay, Metro if you were essentially agreeing with Kurolegacy then I'm in full agreement.

Says who? There’s been non-mutant X-Men in the past. Just look at the likes of Karima, Warbird, Mimic, Deathlocket, Fantomex, Kid Gladiator, and Hepzibah.

I was being a little facetious. I know that there are fans who feel this way though.

Mutant Gods are just made of sterner stuff I guess...

That's not actually very courageous considering she'll immediately be reborn with her powers. This misses your point and it's one that can't really be argued further. With the absence of death, there's nothing courageous about facing a suicide mission.

[jwatson]

Isn't the galactic council acting like gods?

regentofsol.jpg

[Rev9]

The drugs are not a "gift" to mankind(its a trojan horse), they are a way to own them. Thats not altruism. Letting the Arakkii roam free to cause trouble, would lead to a direct confrontation with humans, which is not something they can afford, because they always lose, again and again, using that strategy. They are using soft power, as opposed to hard power, thats the strategy. Everything that they are doing is following a plan, its not a coincidence, it doesn't just happen. The Arakkii merely accelerated their plans for Mars.


I disagree, just like, North Korea building nukes is not an attack on anyone, except super powers who "feel" threatend, now that they are not the only ones with nukes and therefore can't go around bullying other countries.

Theres only one country that has used nukes on another country and it has recieved no penalties. But a country building nukes for self defense, that needs to penalized. Merely having nukes, thats an attack, but apparently, literally attacking another country with nukes, thats not penalized.

The only reason North Korea has not being invaded by the United States, is precisely because they have nukes. Its a deterrent, a form of self defense. And it has always being used that way, they have never used it on anyone, but by merely existing, you want to "spin" that around and say they are attacking. And just to be clear, i'm not pro North Korea.

The way i see it, nukes made the United States into a superpower. Using hard power, the rules don't apply to them, they can do whatever they want with impunity, they can invade any country they want as if they owned them, unless that country has a deterrent.

The krakoan drugs has essentially, made Krakoa into the only superpower. Using soft power, they own everyone. The rules don't apply to them, they can do whatever they want with impunity, except kill humans, because mutants are born from humans, even that has an ulterior motive. They have built everything on a house of cards, the question is, how long will Krakoa keep monopoly over this superpower, and what will they do to keep monopolizing it. Like how the United States uses their power and influence to portray itself as benevolent, altruistic, without ulterior motives, while portraying countries who build nukes, as the same thing as attacking, while turning a blind eye to Israel which also build nukes, and if you criticize Israel for what they to do Palestinians, you are antisemitic. Thats what a superpower does.

Well said, from the very first issue House of X #1 .Magneto says to the delegates 'You have new god's now' .That is not said in jest, he was dead serious and what are deities at least historically but worshiped and particularly feared entities..The hint is humanity must genuflect before mutants.I don't know why people don't see the plain language.