Who is the most intelligent?

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Don't look behind that curtain, it's really the Wizard ....that is to say you are critiquing the artist Bing Cansino for that issue.

What's on the page is on the page. Cansino obviously wanted Doom to affect "classical European style" painting for an audience of non-discerning comics readers for whom this qualifies as dated signifiers. Either way you can read it for what it is.

He's more of an art collector than artist. Even then I think he does it as a status symbol to enforce the idea that he is of high rank and not just a lowly Roma. After all, he burned a Renoir that he didn't like

I don't think someone who on-page shows multiple acts of cruelty to artists and works of art, qualifies having Musical Intelligence. That sounds moralistic, and it is, at the same time it's also rational, which it also is. Doom's not able to fully engage with the broad spectrum of artistic taste, or enter into dialogue with the other and so on, and his need for control and power makes him unable to fully grapple with an artist's vision, or put himself under the control of an artistic work.

So Doom doesn't have Interpersonal Intelligence, Intrapersonal Intelligence, Naturalistic Intelligence, Musical Intelligence.

He would rate high on the other metrics though.

[Iron Maiden]

What's on the page is on the page. Cansino obviously wanted Doom to affect "classical European style" painting for an audience of non-discerning comics readers for whom this qualifies as dated signifiers. Either way you can read it for what it is.

I think it was done with humorous intent and plays into the egotistical side of Doom who thinks that he could compare himself with DaVinci in the first place.

I don't think someone who on-page shows multiple acts of cruelty to artists and works of art, qualifies having Musical Intelligence. That sounds moralistic, and it is, at the same time it's also rational, which it also is. Doom's not able to fully engage with the broad spectrum of artistic taste, or enter into dialogue with the other and so on, and his need for control and power makes him unable to fully grapple with an artist's vision, or put himself under the control of an artistic work.

So Doom doesn't have Interpersonal Intelligence, Intrapersonal Intelligence, Naturalistic Intelligence, Musical Intelligence.

He would rate high on the other metrics though.

It goes without saying that Doom doesn't possess the first three categories. But I don't think you can't completely discount musical intelligence though. There have been a number of people with "musical intelligence" that are deeply flawed if you judge them by the personal lives. Everyone knows how much Hitler loved the works of Richard Wagner. Wagner himself was anti-Semitic. We've all read the stories about Michael Jackson and children. Lennon pretty much abandoned his first child Julian and was miserly with his financial support of Julian and his mother. He also admitted to a physically abusing women in his life to Playboy. None of this denies they possessed musical intelligence. Wagner's music is still played (but not in Israel) along with Lennon's and Michael Jackson's music. It's up to the individual to decide to boycott their music or not.

Doom is an extreme and fictional example. None of those mentioned have done villainy on the scale of a fictional super-villain...as far as I know Some writers are wont to have Doom threaten to murder an artist for producing a work that displeases him. Others may just show him exerting his power as a monarch and make them wait until he is seated to begin their performance ....

[Revolutionary_Jack]

There have been a number of people with "musical intelligence" that are deeply flawed if you judge them by the personal lives.

Having flaws in personal life but being musically gifted is different from committing acts of violence to enforce your taste.

Everyone one knows how much Hitler loved the works of Richard Wagner.

Hitler liked Wagner but he hated modern and contemporary music and other Jewish composers and so on and he led a regime that sought to enforce one particular aesthetic ideology over others with murder and cruelty.

That's different from a talented musician being bad people in their personal lives.

Lennon pretty much abandoned his first child Julian and was miserly with his financial support of Julian and his mother. He also admitted to a physically abusing women in his life to Playboy. None of this denies they possessed musical intelligence.

Going by the metrics of the OP, I would say Lennon has Musical Intelligence but maybe doesn't have Interpersonal Intelligence and so on. Him admitting and going public with it and trying to be a better person in his relationship with Yoko does suggest someone with Intrapersonal Intelligence however.

But that's not the same as Lennon hating the Rolling Stones so much that he tried to kill them or whatever.

Mark David Chapman was a fan of Lennon, and The Catcher in the Rye but he killed the artist he professed to like so that disqualifies him from having Musical Intelligence or real artistic taste for that matter.

I don't think lacking Musical Intelligence means one doesn't have favorite books or stories people like, or favorite songs and favorite music. One can have a fondness for things without fully being able to appreciate or engage with that. I am not very smart in maths and science but I still have a lot of respect and fascination for scientists and mathematicians and respect their achievement and I would never say it's useless because it doesn't concern my daily life. I like maths and science in terms of the fun maths and science stuff whereas a real mathematician and scientist would get engaged with the details.

[nj06]

Storm comes closer to having it all -- a warm empathetic and kindly person (Interpersonal Intelligence), self-reflective (Intrapersonal), cares about natures and understands weather patterns (Naturalistic), Bodily-Kinesthetic (a great hand to hand fighter and the best knife-fighter in the MU), and also Spacial, she also has a keen interest in arts and other cultures (Musical and Linguistic), and while she's not a supergenius in computers and physics, she probably knows a great deal about that and has shown capacity for understanding complex machines and technologies.

Storm is a good choice for someone who encompasses all of these traits.

I would also suggest T'Challa, The Black Panther, as someone who embodies who fits into all of these intelligence categories.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Storm is a good choice for someone who encompasses all of these traits.

I would also suggest T'Challa, The Black Panther, as someone who embodies who fits into all of these intelligence categories.

T'Challa is a good choice too.

[Iron Maiden]

Having flaws in personal life but being musically gifted is different from committing acts of violence to enforce your taste.



Hitler liked Wagner but he hated modern and contemporary music and other Jewish composers and so on and he led a regime that sought to enforce one particular aesthetic ideology over others with murder and cruelty.

That's different from a talented musician being bad people in their personal lives.

You misunderstand or maybe I didn't state it clearly. Wagner obviously has Musical Intelligence but he is known for his anti-Semitism. whose writings quite probably was one of many that informed Hitler and his view of the Jewish population in Germany.

Going by the metrics of the OP, I would say Lennon has Musical Intelligence but maybe doesn't have Interpersonal Intelligence and so on. Him admitting and going public with it and trying to be a better person in his relationship with Yoko does suggest someone with Intrapersonal Intelligence however.

But that's not the same as Lennon hating the Rolling Stones so much that he tried to kill them or whatever.

Mark David Chapman was a fan of Lennon, and The Catcher in the Rye but he killed the artist he professed to like so that disqualifies him from having Musical Intelligence or real artistic taste for that matter.

I don't think lacking Musical Intelligence means one doesn't have favorite books or stories people like, or favorite songs and favorite music. One can have a fondness for things without fully being able to appreciate or engage with that. I am not very smart in maths and science but I still have a lot of respect and fascination for scientists and mathematicians and respect their achievement and I would never say it's useless because it doesn't concern my daily life. I like maths and science in terms of the fun maths and science stuff whereas a real mathematician and scientist would get engaged with the details.

I think with Doom it goes a bit farther than just having a favorite composer or work. We don't know from that panel I posted from Byrne's Fantastic Four whether or not Doom is playing an original composition or just a favorite piece. After all, if Dazzler can be offered up for musical intelligence then the bar is not very high on this

And looking back at the intrapersonal skills I really don't see Doom as a total failure there. Maybe with 1960's Doom but we've since had stories where there is more self reflection even as far back as guest shot in Sub-Mariner #44-49. I guess if you've been reading comics long enough you'll see the things cycle around again. But it's definitely a work in progress ... and some writers are more than willing to show a backsliding Doom revert to his old ways.


It's possible to factor in being manipulated by outside forces as with Mistress Death since she proclaimed Doom would be her greatest servant of all. We saw him obliterate a universe that contained a version of himself that achieved things he felt he never could. Naturally you could even go back to Mephisto being another outside force that haunted his family since his mother made the ill-fated dark bargain for power. Probably one of his worst acts of violence was of course wiping out an entire universe because he couldn't do what the other version of himself could do. Even with that staggering scale of death, Cantwell calls it a crime of passion. That's why Reed always gets the better of him. Doom's emotions and passions are much closer to the surface.

[Revolutionary_Jack]

Wagner obviously has Musical Intelligence but he is known for his anti-Semitism. whose writings quite probably was one of many that informed Hitler and his view of the Jewish population in Germany.

As in the case of Lennon, Wagner doing terrible things but being musically gifted is different from doing terrible things in the name of musical taste.

Wagner was an anti-semite and an a--hole but he died decades before Hitler came to power, and Hitler obviously didn't just draw ideas from Wagner, he drew it from an entire culture and opinion of world. Wagner is far from being the only great artist who was also an anti-semite.

After all, if Dazzler can be offered up for musical intelligence then the bar is not very high on this

Dazzler is about the only superhero in comics who is a musical artist and performer and obviously we can't hear her music but she's supposed to be a skilled musician and singer. She doesn't do European classical music but then again neither did the Beatles.

And looking back at the intrapersonal skills I really don't see Doom as a total failure there. Maybe with 1960's Doom but we've since had stories where there is more self reflection even as far back as guest shot in Sub-Mariner #44-49. I guess if you've been reading comics long enough you'll see the things cycle around again. But it's definitely a work in progress ... and some writers are more than willing to show a backsliding Doom revert to his old ways.

Doom after Secret Wars 2015 in Bendis-Maleev's Infamous Iron Man would qualify higher on this list but alas...time has passed, it's now Slott and Cantwell. And after Cantwell's story with him destroying an entire universe...something I feel should've been vetoed (and now has to be retconned or it'll gather pile alongside Unthinkable, as embarrassing stories people can't refer to again).