Who is the best Spider-man

[Pav]

Those stories are popular because they were event level with added promotion. But HypnoHustler is right in that The Lost Years is probably the greatest character piece for Ben. In saying that, I also have a soft spot for The Exile Returns when he takes on Venom and manages to beat him solo. Guess Revelations is also good for his heroic death.

Certain stories from within the Clone Saga are pretty indefensible. Nobody needs to be reminded of its flaws. But I think it's fair to say that Ben Reilly's journey for the majority of those two years is compelling and meaningful. Other than a few miscues -- the Cyberwar issues; the Strongarm Armstrong / Lizard story -- Ben's journey from purposeless clone to ally to brother to maybe actually the real Spidey -- well, I've always thought it was an excellent storyline in and of itself.

-Pav, who even liked the New Warriors thing...

[Somecrazyaussie]

Certain stories from within the Clone Saga are pretty indefensible. Nobody needs to be reminded of its flaws. But I think it's fair to say that Ben Reilly's journey for the majority of those two years is compelling and meaningful. Other than a few miscues -- the Cyberwar issues; the Strongarm Armstrong / Lizard story -- Ben's journey from purposeless clone to ally to brother to maybe actually the real Spidey -- well, I've always thought it was an excellent storyline in and of itself.

-Pav, who even liked the New Warriors thing...

I may have been in the process of editing my post when you replied, but I added the following -

"The Lost Years is overlooked because it was a separate mini-series and was part of The Clone Saga. Which most fan, unless they were reading as it was coming out, won't touch for all the money in the world. That's despite the initial act of the story being good stuff."

And those issues were good. The stuff with Ben coming back, eventually running into Peter, being a reluctant hero who wants nothing to do with being Spider-man until I realizes he can't, saving Peter from Ravencroft when Traveller took it over, forming a brotherly relationship with Peter, becoming Scarlet Spider - all that is good in my mind.

It's when the books start to pad things out that it started going off the rails for me. You could see where they were going, but then they'd toss another twist into the mix. Then that twist would prove to be a red herring and then another twist would follow.

For me, I don't hate the Clone Saga. I can see why some do though. For me, it was a missed opportunity to do something really great with the set up they had in place. While far from a masterpiece, I appreciate the Clone Saga mini from 09/10 where DeFalco condensed it into a 6 issue story. If something similar had been done then, maybe the Clone Saga would be better received (people would dislike it, of course. But it wouldn't be nearly as derisive).

[Pav]

I may have been in the process of editing my post when you replied, but I added the following -

"The Lost Years is overlooked because it was a separate mini-series and was part of The Clone Saga. Which most fan, unless they were reading as it was coming out, won't touch for all the money in the world. That's despite the initial act of the story being good stuff."

And those issues were good. The stuff with Ben coming back, eventually running into Peter, being a reluctant hero who wants nothing to do with being Spider-man until I realizes he can't, saving Peter from Ravencroft when Traveller took it over, forming a brotherly relationship with Peter, becoming Scarlet Spider - all that is good in my mind.

It's when the books start to pad things out that it started going off the rails for me. You could see where they were going, but then they'd toss another twist into the mix. Then that twist would prove to be a red herring and then another twist would follow.

For me, I don't hate the Clone Saga. I can see why some do though. For me, it was a missed opportunity to do something really great with the set up they had in place. While far from a masterpiece, I appreciate the Clone Saga mini from 09/10 where DeFalco condensed it into a 6 issue story. If something similar had been done then, maybe the Clone Saga would be better received (people would dislike it, of course. But it wouldn't be nearly as derisive).

I think the Clone Saga holds up pretty decently until you get to Maximum Cloneage. If you removed all the issues from there until Power and Responsibility, then left out all the Scarlet Spider issues and move right to Ben becoming Spidey, you miss most of the lesser stories.

-Pav, who does take guilty pleasure in the Scarlet Spider issues though...

[Spiderfan001]

I think the Clone Saga holds up pretty decently until you get to Maximum Cloneage. If you removed all the issues from there until Power and Responsibility, then left out all the Scarlet Spider issues and move right to Ben becoming Spidey, you miss most of the lesser stories.

-Pav, who does take guilty pleasure in the Scarlet Spider issues though...

Not following the clone discussion here but I liking some bad comics are my guilty pleasure too.
I mean some of the comics I like are subjectively bad but I still love them.

[Pav]

Not following the clone discussion here but I liking some bad comics are my guilty pleasure too.
I mean some of the comics I like are subjectively bad but I still love them.

Even if it's looked down upon by most, perhaps for good reason, I'll always have a soft spot for the Scarlet Spider / New Warriors / Green Goblin era of Spidey comics.

My favorite team-up is still Ben and Phil against Joystick, and my favorite 'ship for Ben is still Firestar.

-Pav, who guesses some things don't change...

[Spiderfan001]

Even if it's looked down upon by most, perhaps for good reason, I'll always have a soft spot for the Scarlet Spider / New Warriors / Green Goblin era of Spidey comics.

My favorite team-up is still Ben and Phil against Joystick, and my favorite 'ship for Ben is still Firestar.

-Pav, who guesses some things don't change...

I feel we all have comics we have a soft-spot for even though they aren's as subjectively good.
I would also like to see Firestar and Ben.

[HypnoHustler]

Not following the clone discussion here but I liking some bad comics are my guilty pleasure too.
I mean some of the comics I like are subjectively bad but I still love them.

I think you mean “objectively” bad. “Subjectively” is personal opinion, so to you they’re subjectively good. I think most comics are down to subjective tastes (for example I’m not a fan of Miles, but plenty are), but there’s a few storylines almost everyone can agree were objectively awful like OMD and a few almost everyone can agree were objectively great like Kraven’s Last Hunt (although I do know one person who dislikes it). It’s good to like things that are unpopular (and dislike things that are popular). It shows you can think for yourself and don’t just jump on whatever is trendy or popular.

[Spiderfan001]

I think you mean “objectively” bad. “Subjectively” is personal opinion, so to you they’re subjectively good. I think most comics are down to subjective tastes (for example I’m not a fan of Miles, but plenty are), but there’s a few storylines almost everyone can agree were objectively awful like OMD and a few almost everyone can agree were objectively great like Kraven’s Last Hunt (although I do know one person who dislikes it). It’s good to like things that are unpopular (and dislike things that are popular). It shows you can think for yourself and don’t just jump on whatever is trendy or popular.

Oh yeah my bad.

Agree with everything said here.

[TheRay]

Peter or alt Peters are the only answers I can imagine here.

[Spiderfan001]

Peter or alt Peters are the only answers I can imagine here.

Same here tbh.
We are definitely getting a Ben boost cause of beyond but Peter is uncontested and it shows.

[TheRay]

Ben already forged an identity for himself. I think it’s an injustice to call him Spider-Man anyway, to both him and Peter.

[etrumble]

First, I wish we could start using phrases like "Which is your preference?" rather than ideas like "best."

Like, I don't think my favorite Wes Anderson movie is his best movie, y'know?

Regardless, I have preferred Ben since I was like 10 years old. Certainly aesthetic things like his cool costume helped, but to me, Ben is great because he's like Peter+ in that he has everything thay makes Peter Parker a great character, but with the bonus of some heavy existential drama built-in due to his clone status. Those existential questions about purpose and identity were and still are incredibly meaningful to me, which is why I've always enjoyed reading about Ben, even more than Peter.

-Pav, who knows Ben doesn't exist without Peter though...

Interesting point Pav.

I think what they are really going for is who should be Spider-Man. And from the voting, it is clearly Peter.

In terms of favorite, I really liked SpOck( as a change of pace for both Spider-Man and Doc Ock) but wouldn't have wanted it to go on any longer than it did.

[Spiderfan001]

Ben already forged an identity for himself. I think it’s an injustice to call him Spider-Man anyway, to both him and Peter.

Agreed.
Nailed it on the head.

[Spiderfan001]

Interesting point Pav.

I think what they are really going for is who should be Spider-Man. And from the voting, it is clearly Peter.

In terms of favorite, I really liked SpOck( as a change of pace for both Spider-Man and Doc Ock) but wouldn't have wanted it to go on any longer than it did.

This.
I agree Spock was fine(except a few glaring problems I can list if you like) but they need to get over the replacing thing.
Get Miles back to 1610 or give him a new title while you're at it.

[PCN24454]

This.
I agree Spock was fine(except a few glaring problems I can list if you like) but they need to get over the replacing thing.
Get Miles back to 1610 or give him a new title while you're at it.

You mean "exile him so that he can rot"?

No thanks.