Peter Porker.
Peter Porker.
Keep in mind that you have about as much chance of changing my mind as I do of changing yours.
This is you post that you have mentioned.
"Ultimately, think my issue is more with Marvel's treatment of Peter than the character himself.
While Peter has experienced a lot, I feel he hasn't moved in terms of character growth. He's still in the same place he was way back when (when he started), which IMO, is stale.
I chalk this up to Marvel not letting him evolve/ always resetting the status quo. Thus, I find him boring.
To my mind, it seems that Marvel has made Peter's situation ("loser", "parker luck", "average joe", etcetera) a fundamental part of his character which I think is "incorrect". Peter's character is about responsibility, seflessness, courage in the face of overwhelming odds etcetera. This IMO is his core and it's something that can be tranferred to various settings e.g. he can be a successful business man but that doesn't change his core.
And while I get the quips/humour is part of the character - I've grown out of it. More times than not, I find them highly annoying.
So is Original, 616 Peter Parker Spider-Man the "best"? Probably. But then again it depends on what the criteria being used is.
For me however, he comes after (in no particular order) - Miles (Spider-Man), Kaine (Scarlet), Ben (Scarlet), Tolliver (Superior) and some alternate versions of Peter himself."
You refer to his recent treatment whereas the thread is about the character as a whole.
Also the complains you make about Peter are true for Miles as well only that Miles didn't have decades of good storytelling to back him up through this.
Miles hasn't grown and all his growth has been taken away via 616 jump.
Miles's quips are more annoying imo.
I do completely agree about how marvel doesn't seem to understand the core of Peter these day.We don't come to see peter fall down, we see how he gets back up.Marvel thinks we just want the fall but it's really the rise we are after.
What doesn't make sense is that you say Peter has these faults but Miles has these and many more too (mentioned above).
And other characters like Superior are just worse in so many other ways.
But I do see where you are coming from now.
Cool that you see where I’m coming from now.
My post is not a comparative analysis between Miles and Peter. Nor was it intended to.
Also it was never about (in story) faults of the character as mentioned in my original post but in fact more about how (I perceive) the Company treats him. And it’s a trend, beyond recent treatment (though recent is relative). Think this is where the confusion may have cropped up.
While you see it as Peter having decades of good storytelling to back him through my criticisms (which is true), I see it as multiple missed opportunities where Marvel could have elevated him to “the next stage” only to have the status quo reset.
I mean you said it – “…it's really the rise we are after”. Exactly. The rise and the new “elevated” status quo. I’m tired of his status quo as this is past its due date (as captured in my earlier post). That is the principal reason he’s ranked low in my personal rating.
And it’s not alien to him. Had the same issue with SpOck. I HATE that Superior reverted back to Otto. Even the Superior Octopus was better and I liked it because it was “the next stage”. I HATE that Kaine disappeared (can’t remember what happened) but him being in Houston was welcome.
On another thread, someone said “people like the concept of Spider-Man but not the character who wears the mask” (paraphrasing). This is me. With the other “Spider-Men”, there is more creative freedom and thus different kind of stories could be told and bold(er) moves could be taken; not that all were successful (Clone Conspiracy). The stories, at the time they were being told, could literally go anywhere and that was a welcome feeling.
On Miles:
I think Miles’ has grown, (both literally and figurative) – from school, to his world dying, to having a sister, in the ups and downs of his relationship with his uncle, his relationship with his dad (and growth in his dad's character himself), to his relationship with Peter, to his relationship with other heroes (Champions and otherwise) etc. Those are experiences that contributed to his character. Mind you not saying this didn’t happen with Peter, just pointing out what I consider is “growth”. My opinion – don’t need anyone to agree or debate the issue.
It’s cool if you find Miles’ quips more annoying. Think the reason I tolerate them is because he’s younger/ still a “kid”. I see Peter as a man and I’m thinking “reel it in mate”. Again – difference of opinions.
Good talk man.
That was me. That’s what I said, more or less.
But yeah, you hit in on the nail totally with that last post. Exactly everything how I feel about it all. With Miles, Ben and everyone, since they aren’t the “face” of the brand, they can somewhat evolve.
Peter, I put him in the same category as Archie Andrew’s from Archie Comics. He’ll ALWAYS stay the high-school kid. And with Peter, Marvel has him right where they want him now. In a place where he will never really progress without the reset button not to far behind.
I would say, if they had thought about it back in the 80’s, they would have done everything then as they have done now with Peter, try to keep him firmly stuck as that 23-25 year old single struggling college student, if they could.
Last edited by Blanks; 06-25-2021 at 12:24 PM.
616 Pete is canonically the "best", but my favorite is Miguel.
"Anyone can win a fight when the odds are easy! It's when the going's tough - when there seems to be no chance - that's when it counts!" - Spider-Man
I think the notion of "Best" is subjective. But even taking that into account, you can't really argue against anyone against Peter, given that every other version of Spider-Man exists because of him.
Your favourite Spidey though, that's always gonna be influenced by all manner of things. In my case, it's a simple "Ben was my first Spider-Man". OK, if I'm being honest, he wasn't technically first. I'd grown up with Pete as Spidey in various cartoons and the the occasional random comic-book my Nan would buy me when I was kid. But in terms of the first time I added Spidey comics to my pull list and actually started buying them on a weekly basis, that all started with Sensational #0. After which I continued forwards through Ben's all too brief time as Spidey, whilst also picking up back-issues to catch up with the entirety of the Clone Saga.
And regardless of the controversy and what followed, I still consider it one of the best ideas that Marvel ever had. At a time when heroes were being replaced left, right and centre, the concept of replacing Peter with himself was honestly a moment of genius. Though ironically, when they did that again in 2007, that's what made me drop the Spidey books for good.
Fundamentally same idea. Veeeery different execution
"The rules of regeneration are known!"
"Sorry, what did you say? Did you mention the rules? Now, listen. A bit of advice: tell me the truth if you think you know it,
lay down the law if you're feeling brave, but never ever tell me the rules!!"
Go on the net and check it out yourself.
I'm not going to type a list for someone who clearly doesn't want a discussion.
And please read the opening of the thread before commenting.
I explicitly state that discussion is welcome.
And as I said this is about who is the best not who you like the most.
616 pre-OMD Amazing Spectacular Peter Benjamin Parker.
TRUTH, JUSTICE, HOPE
That is, the heritage of the Kryptonian Warrior: Kal-El, son of Jor-El
You like Gameboy and NDS? - My channel
Looks like I'll have to move past gameplay footage
I'd say Peter Parker, but since he's a clone, I'll go with Ben Reilly.