Who is the best Spider-man

[phonogram12]

Peter Porker.

[Spiderfan001]

Hmm.

Seems there was a break in communication somewhere. Going to try some realignment.

> Our discussion started with Metro's response to my post (which you co-signed) where he says: "The idea Peter ever comes after Miles is just hilarious, like at least with Ben and Kaine they actually have personalities and have things differently than Peter. Miles? No real characterization whatsoever, and all he has ever done is rehash what Peter has already done, so it's near impossible for me to see this as anything other than hilarious, because you can't say Peter is boring and then go on and prop up a character who just does what Peter does."

> What I get from this is you both are unable to see why I rank Peter below Miles (and the 3 others I mentioned).

> Now my post was pretty clear as it gave reasons why I prefer the others to Peter which, if you recall (you may have to re-read), I chalk up to Marvel's general attitude towards him.

> You both say "it doesn't make sense".

So I guess the question I should have asked is - What doesn't make sense?(/ What don't you understand from the original post?).

(NB: it's an opinion not an arguement . Not speaking for the masses).

This is you post that you have mentioned.

"Ultimately, think my issue is more with Marvel's treatment of Peter than the character himself.

While Peter has experienced a lot, I feel he hasn't moved in terms of character growth. He's still in the same place he was way back when (when he started), which IMO, is stale.
I chalk this up to Marvel not letting him evolve/ always resetting the status quo. Thus, I find him boring.

To my mind, it seems that Marvel has made Peter's situation ("loser", "parker luck", "average joe", etcetera) a fundamental part of his character which I think is "incorrect". Peter's character is about responsibility, seflessness, courage in the face of overwhelming odds etcetera. This IMO is his core and it's something that can be tranferred to various settings e.g. he can be a successful business man but that doesn't change his core.

And while I get the quips/humour is part of the character - I've grown out of it. More times than not, I find them highly annoying.

So is Original, 616 Peter Parker Spider-Man the "best"? Probably. But then again it depends on what the criteria being used is.

For me however, he comes after (in no particular order) - Miles (Spider-Man), Kaine (Scarlet), Ben (Scarlet), Tolliver (Superior) and some alternate versions of Peter himself."

You refer to his recent treatment whereas the thread is about the character as a whole.

Also the complains you make about Peter are true for Miles as well only that Miles didn't have decades of good storytelling to back him up through this.

Miles hasn't grown and all his growth has been taken away via 616 jump.
Miles's quips are more annoying imo.

I do completely agree about how marvel doesn't seem to understand the core of Peter these day.We don't come to see peter fall down, we see how he gets back up.Marvel thinks we just want the fall but it's really the rise we are after.

What doesn't make sense is that you say Peter has these faults but Miles has these and many more too (mentioned above).

And other characters like Superior are just worse in so many other ways.

But I do see where you are coming from now.

[Mr. White]

This is you post that you have mentioned.

"Ultimately, think my issue is more with Marvel's treatment of Peter than the character himself.

While Peter has experienced a lot, I feel he hasn't moved in terms of character growth. He's still in the same place he was way back when (when he started), which IMO, is stale.
I chalk this up to Marvel not letting him evolve/ always resetting the status quo. Thus, I find him boring.

To my mind, it seems that Marvel has made Peter's situation ("loser", "parker luck", "average joe", etcetera) a fundamental part of his character which I think is "incorrect". Peter's character is about responsibility, seflessness, courage in the face of overwhelming odds etcetera. This IMO is his core and it's something that can be tranferred to various settings e.g. he can be a successful business man but that doesn't change his core.

And while I get the quips/humour is part of the character - I've grown out of it. More times than not, I find them highly annoying.

So is Original, 616 Peter Parker Spider-Man the "best"? Probably. But then again it depends on what the criteria being used is.

For me however, he comes after (in no particular order) - Miles (Spider-Man), Kaine (Scarlet), Ben (Scarlet), Tolliver (Superior) and some alternate versions of Peter himself."

You refer to his recent treatment whereas the thread is about the character as a whole.

Also the complains you make about Peter are true for Miles as well only that Miles didn't have decades of good storytelling to back him up through this.

Miles hasn't grown and all his growth has been taken away via 616 jump.
Miles's quips are more annoying imo.

I do completely agree about how marvel doesn't seem to understand the core of Peter these day.We don't come to see peter fall down, we see how he gets back up.Marvel thinks we just want the fall but it's really the rise we are after.

What doesn't make sense is that you say Peter has these faults but Miles has these and many more too (mentioned above).

And other characters like Superior are just worse in so many other ways.

But I do see where you are coming from now.

Cool that you see where I’m coming from now.

My post is not a comparative analysis between Miles and Peter. Nor was it intended to.

Also it was never about (in story) faults of the character as mentioned in my original post but in fact more about how (I perceive) the Company treats him. And it’s a trend, beyond recent treatment (though recent is relative). Think this is where the confusion may have cropped up.

While you see it as Peter having decades of good storytelling to back him through my criticisms (which is true), I see it as multiple missed opportunities where Marvel could have elevated him to “the next stage” only to have the status quo reset.

I mean you said it – “…it's really the rise we are after”. Exactly. The rise and the new “elevated” status quo. I’m tired of his status quo as this is past its due date (as captured in my earlier post). That is the principal reason he’s ranked low in my personal rating.

And it’s not alien to him. Had the same issue with SpOck. I HATE that Superior reverted back to Otto. Even the Superior Octopus was better and I liked it because it was “the next stage”. I HATE that Kaine disappeared (can’t remember what happened) but him being in Houston was welcome.

On another thread, someone said “people like the concept of Spider-Man but not the character who wears the mask” (paraphrasing). This is me. With the other “Spider-Men”, there is more creative freedom and thus different kind of stories could be told and bold(er) moves could be taken; not that all were successful (Clone Conspiracy). The stories, at the time they were being told, could literally go anywhere and that was a welcome feeling.

On Miles:

I think Miles’ has grown, (both literally and figurative) – from school, to his world dying, to having a sister, in the ups and downs of his relationship with his uncle, his relationship with his dad (and growth in his dad's character himself), to his relationship with Peter, to his relationship with other heroes (Champions and otherwise) etc. Those are experiences that contributed to his character. Mind you not saying this didn’t happen with Peter, just pointing out what I consider is “growth”. My opinion – don’t need anyone to agree or debate the issue.

It’s cool if you find Miles’ quips more annoying. Think the reason I tolerate them is because he’s younger/ still a “kid”. I see Peter as a man and I’m thinking “reel it in mate”. Again – difference of opinions.

Good talk man.

[Spiderfan001]

Cool that you see where I’m coming from now.

My post is not a comparative analysis between Miles and Peter. Nor was it intended to.

Also it was never about (in story) faults of the character as mentioned in my original post but in fact more about how (I perceive) the Company treats him. And it’s a trend, beyond recent treatment (though recent is relative). Think this is where the confusion may have cropped up.

While you see it as Peter having decades of good storytelling to back him through my criticisms (which is true), I see it as multiple missed opportunities where Marvel could have elevated him to “the next stage” only to have the status quo reset.

I mean you said it – “…it's really the rise we are after”. Exactly. The rise and the new “elevated” status quo. I’m tired of his status quo as this is past its due date (as captured in my earlier post). That is the principal reason he’s ranked low in my personal rating.

And it’s not alien to him. Had the same issue with SpOck. I HATE that Superior reverted back to Otto. Even the Superior Octopus was better and I liked it because it was “the next stage”. I HATE that Kaine disappeared (can’t remember what happened) but him being in Houston was welcome.

On another thread, someone said “people like the concept of Spider-Man but not the character who wears the mask” (paraphrasing). This is me. With the other “Spider-Men”, there is more creative freedom and thus different kind of stories could be told and bold(er) moves could be taken; not that all were successful (Clone Conspiracy). The stories, at the time they were being told, could literally go anywhere and that was a welcome feeling.

On Miles:

I think Miles’ has grown, (both literally and figurative) – from school, to his world dying, to having a sister, in the ups and downs of his relationship with his uncle, his relationship with his dad (and growth in his dad's character himself), to his relationship with Peter, to his relationship with other heroes (Champions and otherwise) etc. Those are experiences that contributed to his character. Mind you not saying this didn’t happen with Peter, just pointing out what I consider is “growth”. My opinion – don’t need anyone to agree or debate the issue.

It’s cool if you find Miles’ quips more annoying. Think the reason I tolerate them is because he’s younger/ still a “kid”. I see Peter as a man and I’m thinking “reel it in mate”. Again – difference of opinions.

Good talk man.

Oh yeah
Just boils down to what we like in a character
Good talk

[Blanks]

On another thread, someone said “people like the concept of Spider-Man but not the character who wears the mask” (paraphrasing). This is me. With the other “Spider-Men”, there is more creative freedom and thus different kind of stories could be told and bold(er) moves could be taken; not that all were successful (Clone Conspiracy). The stories, at the time they were being told, could literally go anywhere and that was a welcome feeling.
.

That was me. That’s what I said, more or less.

But yeah, you hit in on the nail totally with that last post. Exactly everything how I feel about it all. With Miles, Ben and everyone, since they aren’t the “face” of the brand, they can somewhat evolve.

Peter, I put him in the same category as Archie Andrew’s from Archie Comics. He’ll ALWAYS stay the high-school kid. And with Peter, Marvel has him right where they want him now. In a place where he will never really progress without the reset button not to far behind.

I would say, if they had thought about it back in the 80’s, they would have done everything then as they have done now with Peter, try to keep him firmly stuck as that 23-25 year old single struggling college student, if they could.

[Spiderfan001]

That was me. That’s what I said, more or less.

But yeah, you hit in on the nail totally with that last post. Exactly everything how I feel about it all. With Miles, Ben and everyone, since they aren’t the “face” of the brand, they can somewhat evolve.

Peter, I put him in the same category as Archie Andrew’s from Archie Comics. He’ll ALWAYS stay the high-school kid. And with Peter, Marvel has him right where they want him now. In a place where he will never really progress without the reset button not to far behind.

I would say, if they had thought about it back in the 80’s, they would have done everything then as they have done now with Peter, try to keep him firmly stuck as that 23-25 year old single struggling college student, if they could.

I do see what you mean.

But he is about to get married.
And we already talked about how he will soon get his PHD(which is not college) and then we may get an actual shot this time.

[phonogram12]

That was me. That’s what I said, more or less.

But yeah, you hit in on the nail totally with that last post. Exactly everything how I feel about it all. With Miles, Ben and everyone, since they aren’t the “face” of the brand, they can somewhat evolve.

Peter, I put him in the same category as Archie Andrew’s from Archie Comics. He’ll ALWAYS stay the high-school kid. And with Peter, Marvel has him right where they want him now. In a place where he will never really progress without the reset button not to far behind.

I would say, if they had thought about it back in the 80’s, they would have done everything then as they have done now with Peter, try to keep him firmly stuck as that 23-25 year old single struggling college student, if they could.

This is actually a really good point.

[blackspidey2099]

616 Pete is canonically the "best", but my favorite is Miguel.

[Vworp Vworp]

I think the notion of "Best" is subjective. But even taking that into account, you can't really argue against anyone against Peter, given that every other version of Spider-Man exists because of him.

Your favourite Spidey though, that's always gonna be influenced by all manner of things. In my case, it's a simple "Ben was my first Spider-Man". OK, if I'm being honest, he wasn't technically first. I'd grown up with Pete as Spidey in various cartoons and the the occasional random comic-book my Nan would buy me when I was kid. But in terms of the first time I added Spidey comics to my pull list and actually started buying them on a weekly basis, that all started with Sensational #0. After which I continued forwards through Ben's all too brief time as Spidey, whilst also picking up back-issues to catch up with the entirety of the Clone Saga.

And regardless of the controversy and what followed, I still consider it one of the best ideas that Marvel ever had. At a time when heroes were being replaced left, right and centre, the concept of replacing Peter with himself was honestly a moment of genius. Though ironically, when they did that again in 2007, that's what made me drop the Spidey books for good.

Fundamentally same idea. Veeeery different execution

[Spiderfan001]

I think the notion of "Best" is subjective. But even taking that into account, you can't really argue against anyone against Peter, given that every other version of Spider-Man exists because of him.

Your favourite Spidey though, that's always gonna be influenced by all manner of things. In my case, it's a simple "Ben was my first Spider-Man". OK, if I'm being honest, he wasn't technically first. I'd grown up with Pete as Spidey in various cartoons and the the occasional random comic-book my Nan would buy me when I was kid. But in terms of the first time I added Spidey comics to my pull list and actually started buying them on a weekly basis, that all started with Sensational #0. After which I continued forwards through Ben's all too brief time as Spidey, whilst also picking up back-issues to catch up with the entirety of the Clone Saga.

And regardless of the controversy and what followed, I still consider it one of the best ideas that Marvel ever had. At a time when heroes were being replaced left, right and centre, the concept of replacing Peter with himself was honestly a moment of genius. Though ironically, when they did that again in 2007, that's what made me drop the Spidey books for good.

Fundamentally same idea. Veeeery different execution

I agree.
This is meant to be a best Spider-man by being as subjective as possible.
There is no wrong favourite Spidey.We all have preferences.

[PCN24454]

It has been stated in canon multiple times that peter is the best Spider-man.

Spider-Uk,Madame Web both old and new
Even TOAA(the overall god in the MU) says respects the F out of Peter

What has Peter accomplished?

I agree.
This is meant to be a best Spider-man by being as subjective as possible.
There is no wrong favourite Spidey.We all have preferences.

Then don't try to argue against people.

[Spiderfan001]

What has Peter accomplished?



Then don't try to argue against people.

Go on the net and check it out yourself.
I'm not going to type a list for someone who clearly doesn't want a discussion.


And please read the opening of the thread before commenting.
I explicitly state that discussion is welcome.
And as I said this is about who is the best not who you like the most.

[Speed Force League Unlimited]

616 pre-OMD Amazing Spectacular Peter Benjamin Parker.

[PCN24454]

616 pre-OMD Amazing Spectacular Peter Benjamin Parker.

Not really seeing a difference.

[Superboy-Prime]

I'd say Peter Parker, but since he's a clone, I'll go with Ben Reilly.