Makoto Shishio VS Yukishiro Enish! Live Action! Spoilers Inside!

[Kuro]

I think the Shin uchi reverse was probably made after the Mugenjin. Even by Shakkus standards, the Mugenjin was exceptionally potent so I would guess he forged it at the height of conflict and when he was at his peak bloodthirst.

Otoh, he seemed disillusioned by the war after talking with Himura which is why he forged the reverse blade

[Twickster]

I think the Shin uchi reverse was probably made after the Mugenjin. Even by Shakkus standards, the Mugenjin was exceptionally potent so I would guess he forged it at the height of conflict and when he was at his peak bloodthirst.

Otoh, he seemed disillusioned by the war after talking with Himura which is why he forged the reverse blade

I think this was a specific plot point. The reverse edged swords were the *last* swords he made to make up for all the killing swords he made prior.

[Saitou Hajime]

haven't seen the live-action film, but it sounds like they treated Shishio how I would have wanted to see it ... apart from his sword (Mugenjin) breaking ... I think it's much more appropriate in the manga that Shishio's sword just disappears and is with him in hell. after all, Mugenjin was a brother to the shin uchi reverse-blade ... it's always been a pet theory of mine that they were forged at the same time, but I don't think that can be backed up by evidence.

at least, I can't. if it's true, it would need to be found by someone who can actually read Japanese.

In the manga Mugenjin ends up in the hands of one of the kid protagonists in Hokkaido arc.

[penguin-in-leather-jacket]

i don't remember that being in the original, i think that's in a much more recent manga ... might still be written/drawn by Watsuki, not entirely sure, but i don't care for it either way.

[BitVyper]

That's what the Hokkaido arc is, yes.

[Ghostintheshell]

None of this happens in live-action. Enishi has no reference to any techniques specifically developed against Kenshin and has no nerves of insanity. They fight *only once*, and Kenshin trounces him then and there.

As opposed to Shishio, where Kenshin comes in relatively fresh (he does fight Sojiro prior to this, but comes out relatively uninjured), fights Shishio one-on-one and is completely and utterly trashed. Then Sato comes and is trashed. Then Sano comes and... is completely ignored as a nuisance to the extent that Shishio does not even bother to hit him with a sword. Then Aoshi comes and is trashed. Then Kenshin comes to, and he, Sato, Aoshi and Sano *fight Shishio at the same time* and are trashed to the extent that Sano, Saito, and Aoshi are knocked out, and only Kenshin is left. Then Kenshin manages to hit Shishio with an Ougi, which manages to break his sword, but does not technically keep him down. Shishio gets up and only dies because of his time limit. Movie Shishio is an absolute, f*ing monster.

I 100% AGREE with you!! Even from the Manga and 90's cartoon, everyone says Kenshin entered the fight with Shishio completely injured... do people NOT realize even though time passed Shishio is a PERMANENTLY injured man as he has been stabbed, shot and BURNED!! Then he fights ALL 4 heroes and can beat them ALL. If not for "hero-ing" (good guys must win in stories) Shishio would have completely won. Versus Enishi, Shishio would also win, he is actually fighting for a true belief in which he was totally willing to die for like a modern day terrorist, Enishi was basically drunk on revenge for his sister. Shishio wins HANDS DOWN.

[The Drunkard Kid]

In the manga and anime, there was no indication that Shishio suffered any long-term negative effects from his injuries other than looking like overcooked bacon and being prone to inadvertently setting himself on fire if he fought too long, and everyone he was fighting in that final battle had been severely battered right before they came to fight him. Like, Kenshin landed more hits on Shishio than he did in Aoshi and Soujirou, and any of those hits would have killed or severely maimed Shishio if Kenshin hasn't been deliberately hindering himself with his reverse blade, Aoshi was depicted as being dead even with Kenshin sans the Amakakeru Ryu no Hirameki, and Saitou was famously dead even with Kenshin in his battousai mode and woods have killed Shishio with his first strike of he didn't have the bad luck to hit what appeared to be the only piece of armor that Shishio wore. Also Sano was there

And Shishio's belief is "whoever is the strongest should do whatever they want and kill anyone weaker than themselves if they object," which isn't a really useful philosophy against a guy who starts off as being as strong, fast, and skilled as a fresh Kenshin and gets notably stronger and faster is he gets annoyed enough. Especially since he needed to buy weapons from Enishi in order to get syringe enough to actually strange a chance of overthrowing the Meiji government.

Like, Shishio got hit by a chain of 3 Ryu Sou Sen variations that would have left him in pieces if Kenshin had used a regular sword, while an Enishi who was just starting to tap into his Nerves of Insanity blocked all 9 nigh-instantaneous strikes of the much faster and more powerful Kuzu Ryuu Sen. Shishio doesn't want to face off against that kind of speed when used by someone with a blade that has no blunt edges.

[Twickster]

I wonder what keeps people replying with feats that are not relevant to this particular rumble. Is it that people are not watching the films? Expecting that events transpire exactly the same in all media? (they don't)

It's *live action*, not manga or anime. What the characters do in the latter media is irrelevant.

[The Drunkard Kid]

I wonder what keeps people replying with feats that are not relevant to this particular rumble. Is it that people are not watching the films? Expecting that events transpire exactly the same in all media? (they don't)

It's *live action*, not manga or anime. What the characters do in the latter media is irrelevant.

You've been around long enough to know that debates go off on tangents fairly often, and in this case it is a disagreement about the portrayal of the anime/manga version of the characters, which is a fair sight closer to being on topic than a lot of other digressions we've seen.

[Guy1]

You've been around long enough to know that debates go off on tangents fairly often, and in this case it is a disagreement about the portrayal of the anime/manga version of the characters, which is a fair sight closer to being on topic than a lot of other digressions we've seen.